Coeur d'Alene Press Newspaper | CDAPress.com
Local and National News - Kootenai County, Idaho
Jail fails
By TOM GREENE
Staff writer
Staff writer
COEUR d'ALENE -- Voters slammed the door on the county's jail expansion/comprehensive facilities plan Tuesday, voting against $145 million in bonding authorization and the accompanying half-cent sales tax increase.
Both fell well short of the super majority needed to pass with 37,957 votes (64.1 percent) against the bond question to 21,260 votes (35.9 percent) in favor. For the sales tax quesion, 37,405 (61.5 percent) voted against and 23,412 (38.5 percent) voted in favor.
Commissioner Todd Tondee said Tuesday night that the problem of an overcrowded jail isn't going away.
"We're going to have to do something. We'll reevaluate and see," Tondee said. "It's a disappointment, but we'll deal with it."
The $145 million would have built between nine and 12 new buildings, two multi-level parking structures and various expansions to existing facilities both at the sheriff's current headquarters and the downtown courthouse campus.
The state law that allows for half the money collected each year from a sales tax to pay off a jail and the other half to go toward property-tax relief is set to expire Dec. 31, 2009.
Newly re-elected Sheriff Rocky Watson said he was not sure if his department would push for another jail expansion/facilities plan before the local-option sales tax law expires.
"That is completely up to the commissioners. That is their responsibility," Watson said. "The failure is not a surprise. The degree of the failure is disappointing after you give 100 presentations and open houses."
Watson said the plan was a "complex issue" that should have had more time than 90 days in the public eye and deserved the support of all the commissioners. Commissioner Rick Currie did not support the plan.
"They've got to do something. The jail is overcrowded and it's a huge expense," Watson said.
The last time the county asked voters to approve a jail expansion was in 2005, when it fell short of the required super majority by 300 votes. That plan had a $50 million price tag.
Tondee said they will look at all options including tapping into the general fund -- property taxes -- to pay for a jail expansion. The half-cent sales tax would have paid for the debt service on the bonds and kept the project property tax neutral.
"I don't know if (spending more time explaining the plan to the public) would have changed anything. Looking back, I'm not disappointed in anything we have done," Tondee said. "I think it's tough economic times and people were just not interested in it."
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- Do not type entire post in CAPITALS - it means you are screaming.
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Easy Fix wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:08 PM:
" At last Rogue Cop and I can agree on something. To give $140 mill to a shameless political hack like Watson is analogous to handing the keys to a Z06 Corvette to a crack-addled 13 year old boy, filling the truck with beer, and stuffing the passenger seat with three girls his age.
Someone like Watson needs his multimillion dollar Gulag Archipelego wet dream like submarines need a screen door. "
Someone like Watson needs his multimillion dollar Gulag Archipelego wet dream like submarines need a screen door. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 22, 2008 7:07 PM:
" Ottawa Mike: That is the typical story of Sheriffs and not just in North Idaho. Unfortnately, the sheriff is a politician first and a law enforcement officer second (if at all).
Watson, on the other hand was appointed from the outside, when Clegg retired. He had been Sheriff 20 some years previously but hadn't been in law enforcement or on the department at the time of his appointment. He has since run and been re-elected 3X.
Hell, you don't even have to have law enforcement experience to be Sheriff...just politically connected. In Shoshone County, the incumbant was defeated in the primary by a 4 year veteran police officer from nearby Kellogg. No doubt if he had been re-elected, Reynalds would have appointed a henchman before his term expired to be his successor, as you have so eloquently described.
Law Enforcement is a high profile component of government and their budget is huge. That's why, at the county level, it's such a political football. It's unfortunate because the most qualified person isn't always elected. "
Watson, on the other hand was appointed from the outside, when Clegg retired. He had been Sheriff 20 some years previously but hadn't been in law enforcement or on the department at the time of his appointment. He has since run and been re-elected 3X.
Hell, you don't even have to have law enforcement experience to be Sheriff...just politically connected. In Shoshone County, the incumbant was defeated in the primary by a 4 year veteran police officer from nearby Kellogg. No doubt if he had been re-elected, Reynalds would have appointed a henchman before his term expired to be his successor, as you have so eloquently described.
Law Enforcement is a high profile component of government and their budget is huge. That's why, at the county level, it's such a political football. It's unfortunate because the most qualified person isn't always elected. "
Ottawa Mike wrote on Nov 22, 2008 4:07 PM:
" Rogue Cop,
I suspect you know that typically sheriff's are selected and elected from within their own department. A few years ago the Idaho Sheriffs Association tried to pass a law that would require deputies or jailers to take a leave of absence if they filed to run against the incumbent sheriff. Thankfully, that law failed in the Idaho legislature, but the mindset demonstrated by the Idaho Sheriff's Association is one reason most Idaho sheriff's departments are still in the dark ages.
One trick sheriffs use is to win reelection, then resign or retire and name a legacy appointment to fill out his unexpired term. The legacy appointment is the one anointed by the sheriff to succeed him. Most of the time the sheriff is of the same political party as the commissioners, and the commissioners rubber-stamp the Anointed One to fill out the departed sheriff's unexpired term. That gives the Anointed One the advantage of incumbency.
A few years ago Spokane County Sheriff Mark Sterk tried that trick when he retired. He anointed a politically reliable but professionally unqualified deputy named Cal Walker to succeed him. Kootenai County Sheriff Rocky Watson sent a letter to the Spokane County Commissioners endorsing Walker. Watson wasn't the only signator to the letter. It was also signed by Post Falls Chief Cliff Hayes, Rathdrum Chief Bob Moore, Coeur d'Alene Chief Wendy Carpenter, and Idaho State Police Captain Wayne Longo. Never mind that it was highly unprofessional for Hayes, Moore, Carpenter, and Longo to endorse a political candidate. It really didn't matter. On the way to the coronation of the Anointed One (Walker), the Spokane County deputies decided they wanted to be led by a competent, professional sheriff and not have their department ruined by a political hack. In a real act of political courage, the Spokane County Commissioners put aside the endorsement of the political precinct captains who had endorsed Walker, they obviously disregarded (rightly so) the meaningless endorsements from Idaho's Watson, Hayes, Moore, Carpenter, and Longo, and they basically told Sterk to go away and enjoy his retirement. Then they appointed a sergeant, Ozzie Knezovich, to be the replacement sheriff. The sergeant completed his appointment term, then stood for election on his own, and won election easily.
It's pretty certain Watson will retire before his term expires and will name his legacy apppointment. Even if there's a qualified replacement in the ranks of the KCSD deputies, it's doubtful that person will be considered unless s/he happens to also be Watson's legacy appointment. "
I suspect you know that typically sheriff's are selected and elected from within their own department. A few years ago the Idaho Sheriffs Association tried to pass a law that would require deputies or jailers to take a leave of absence if they filed to run against the incumbent sheriff. Thankfully, that law failed in the Idaho legislature, but the mindset demonstrated by the Idaho Sheriff's Association is one reason most Idaho sheriff's departments are still in the dark ages.
One trick sheriffs use is to win reelection, then resign or retire and name a legacy appointment to fill out his unexpired term. The legacy appointment is the one anointed by the sheriff to succeed him. Most of the time the sheriff is of the same political party as the commissioners, and the commissioners rubber-stamp the Anointed One to fill out the departed sheriff's unexpired term. That gives the Anointed One the advantage of incumbency.
A few years ago Spokane County Sheriff Mark Sterk tried that trick when he retired. He anointed a politically reliable but professionally unqualified deputy named Cal Walker to succeed him. Kootenai County Sheriff Rocky Watson sent a letter to the Spokane County Commissioners endorsing Walker. Watson wasn't the only signator to the letter. It was also signed by Post Falls Chief Cliff Hayes, Rathdrum Chief Bob Moore, Coeur d'Alene Chief Wendy Carpenter, and Idaho State Police Captain Wayne Longo. Never mind that it was highly unprofessional for Hayes, Moore, Carpenter, and Longo to endorse a political candidate. It really didn't matter. On the way to the coronation of the Anointed One (Walker), the Spokane County deputies decided they wanted to be led by a competent, professional sheriff and not have their department ruined by a political hack. In a real act of political courage, the Spokane County Commissioners put aside the endorsement of the political precinct captains who had endorsed Walker, they obviously disregarded (rightly so) the meaningless endorsements from Idaho's Watson, Hayes, Moore, Carpenter, and Longo, and they basically told Sterk to go away and enjoy his retirement. Then they appointed a sergeant, Ozzie Knezovich, to be the replacement sheriff. The sergeant completed his appointment term, then stood for election on his own, and won election easily.
It's pretty certain Watson will retire before his term expires and will name his legacy apppointment. Even if there's a qualified replacement in the ranks of the KCSD deputies, it's doubtful that person will be considered unless s/he happens to also be Watson's legacy appointment. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 22, 2008 11:30 AM:
" Ottawa Mike: You bring up a lot of valid points but Watson is so politically connected that it's hard to beat him.
Secondly, I haven't seen anyone in the last 3 elections who have had the accumen to be Sheriff either. Look who has run against him and what kind of campaign they put together...Joe Bodman didn't even campaign and never answered questions about his own qualifications. Last election he was challenged by the moron who bought Watson's security company and they were suing each other. That guy didn't even live in Idaho and has since flown the coop after he ran the business into the ground.
Watson never has a challenger with the depth of knowledge, experience, or resume to make even a feeble attempt to beat him. "
Secondly, I haven't seen anyone in the last 3 elections who have had the accumen to be Sheriff either. Look who has run against him and what kind of campaign they put together...Joe Bodman didn't even campaign and never answered questions about his own qualifications. Last election he was challenged by the moron who bought Watson's security company and they were suing each other. That guy didn't even live in Idaho and has since flown the coop after he ran the business into the ground.
Watson never has a challenger with the depth of knowledge, experience, or resume to make even a feeble attempt to beat him. "
Ottawa Mike wrote on Nov 22, 2008 7:07 AM:
" Joe came very close to identifying the real problem: Rocky Watson. Watson should never have been elected the first time. His only core competency is political reliability. As a chief law enforcement executive officer, he is a failure. The combined budget of the Kootenai County Sheriff's Department is second only to that of the Board of County Commissioners. Yet the voters of Kootenai County blindly entrust this money to an agency headed by someone who was a marginal deputy sheriff and who demonstrated no skills in complex public administration. People like Watson tend to surround themselves with less capable and less competent subordinates who present no professional threat to them, and that's exactly what Watson did. Good deputies who might have eventually developed into good leaders were discouraged and left. We allowed him to get away with it. In fact, we encouraged it with our unquestioning support for him. The Coeur d'Alene Press is culpable in this as well. It isn't as if the information about his failures wasn't available, but the Press and the public chose not to look and see. We deserve what has and what will happen to us as the Kootenai County Sheriff's Department further deteriorates. "
Hello Joe wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:59 PM:
" If you don't like the way the jail is run then stop getting drunk in public. And while you're at it, don't do anything else illegal either. Easy! "
transplant wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:57 PM:
" My husband just got back from a trip to Albuquerque, and brought an Albuquerque newspaper with him. They publish two pages of color photos of their DWI (DUI) offenders. We need to do the same here!!! "
Joe wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:28 PM:
" I was recently arrested for public intoxication and was put into the Kootenai County jail for a period of 5 days. I was in a holding cell for the entire 5 days with 4 other people, 5 total. I spent time in a cell with such menaces to society as a man who spit on the sidewalk, a man who had an open container, a man who threw a soda can out the window of his car, and a DUI offender. The KCSD was clearly going out of its way to pack the jail tight before this vote was decided to show the public how much of a crime problem Kootenai County has. I can almost guarantee anyone that 70% or more of the people in custody in the Kootenai County jail are people who are in there for petty non violent offenses or non violent drug offenses. The prosecutors had clearly worked out a deal to throw the book at everyone in an attempt to show this "overcrowding" because everyone I was in the cell with received the maximum sentence for their violation. If the county is so worried about jail space, a clear majority of the defendants in the jail could easily be places on such programs as ankle monitor bracelets and fines instead of jail time and or probation. I am glad the jail expansion failed, however I am saddened that Rocky Watson was re-elected again. What many people dont realize is that essential services to Kootenai County residents are being sacrificed over the Sheriff's need for his new jail. My judge even asked me how I liked "Rocky's HOtel". Has anyone tried to get a drivers liscense in the county lately?? The DMV is the most primitive, smallest understaffed facility in the county and guess what?? Its run by the sheriffs department. Use the money to expand essential services the sheriff's department runs and use the money to keep people out of the jail to begin with. I come from a city back on the east coast with a high crime rate and they would simply read the daily inmate list of Kootenai County and laugh. "
Ugly wrote on Nov 14, 2008 3:29 PM:
" Oh, I think we all know what the outcome will be. Citizens verses the cops, get real. Looks like the comments under the new story are starting to get ugly. I think you spoke too soon, Rogue. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 14, 2008 11:37 AM:
" Before y'all think that this front page article supports your claims of gestapo tactics by the local constabulary, go to the story comments and read what some of the sane and rational people are writing. Hmmmm, a different perspective. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 14, 2008 10:00 AM:
" OK, so there are 3 lawsuits filed on behalf of 3 separate clients against 3 separate agencies by ONE attorney. So what? Are any of you prepared to say what the outcome will be? I'm not. Read the article and some of the language from the complaints and tell me you don't see any "minor details" that may have been left out. You've read one side, and the defendents haven't even responded or answered. Anybody can make allegations.
If you've ever been sued, and I have, when you read the complaint often times it doesn't even resemble the facts as they occurred. By the way, I prevailed in every one of my suits including federal civil rights cases. If any of these complainants prevail, then you have an argument. Until then, it's all speculation.
This reminds me of another story comment section where 2 teens are alleged to have raped a teen girl. The case is still under investigation and most of the morons in that thread have tried and convicted the 2 boys. "
If you've ever been sued, and I have, when you read the complaint often times it doesn't even resemble the facts as they occurred. By the way, I prevailed in every one of my suits including federal civil rights cases. If any of these complainants prevail, then you have an argument. Until then, it's all speculation.
This reminds me of another story comment section where 2 teens are alleged to have raped a teen girl. The case is still under investigation and most of the morons in that thread have tried and convicted the 2 boys. "
Just Curious wrote on Nov 14, 2008 6:35 AM:
" Has anyone seen today's CD'A Press headlines? Rogue's statement that he made earlier "If their trumped up allegations had any truth to them, the Feds would be crawling all over the region investigating police brutality and allegatios of civil rights violations." I have a question. Do the Fed's come after the suits are filed? "
Wow wrote on Nov 14, 2008 6:07 AM:
" Wow! Someone struck a chord. I guess we can all feel safer that this one is off the street.If you have read this comment section, than you have read the front page of today's newspaper with eyes wide opened. The Civil Rights suits that you say don't exist, Rogue. This couldn't have come at a worst time, huh? It's all in black and white. I'm sure you have a comment on this one, so let's hear it. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 13, 2008 4:18 PM:
" dash cam: See ya! Stay safe.
Head on: I don't know where my "tweens" are. What's a tween? So you just want to spew your poison no matter how much fantasy and not defend it. So the cops have attitudes, is that it? OK, well be careful. If a gang banger from Spokane jacks your car, call dash cam. I'll hang out here with the law abiding folks.
Mr. Ruger: I don't have a cause, other than challenging some of the asinine statements made here by your buddies. As I said previously, but wouldn't expect you to go back and read it, I voted against the jail measures but not because of the gestapo. Be careful with that .44 mag. Some crook might install it in your intestinal tract. Guys like you usually soil yourself when faced with danger anyway. Ivest in some Depends. "
Head on: I don't know where my "tweens" are. What's a tween? So you just want to spew your poison no matter how much fantasy and not defend it. So the cops have attitudes, is that it? OK, well be careful. If a gang banger from Spokane jacks your car, call dash cam. I'll hang out here with the law abiding folks.
Mr. Ruger: I don't have a cause, other than challenging some of the asinine statements made here by your buddies. As I said previously, but wouldn't expect you to go back and read it, I voted against the jail measures but not because of the gestapo. Be careful with that .44 mag. Some crook might install it in your intestinal tract. Guys like you usually soil yourself when faced with danger anyway. Ivest in some Depends. "
Mr Ruger wrote on Nov 13, 2008 3:46 PM:
" Sure glad we have all these nice police officers protecting us.....personally trust my 44 mag. more to get the job done and the biggest worry I have is Who is going to protect us from the cops...??? they have a gestapo mentality here....get away with anything they want and never answer for Their misdeeds....which are plenty....rogue you ould be better off keeping your mouth zipped....not helping your cause at all... "
Head on wrote on Nov 13, 2008 2:08 PM:
" In the long winter months that lie ahead, come shorter days and longer nights. It's 4:30 p.m. in Kootenai County as the sun goes down and as the evening draws near. Do you know where your tweens are? Rogue dude, the more you converse the more you prove our theory that our cops have attitudes. I just wanted state my view not argue the fact. Good luck getting your view across, seems to me as no one is listening. "
dash cam wrote on Nov 13, 2008 2:00 PM:
" Well its been nice chating with you Rogue, you remind me of a third grader that just refuses to admit he might be wrong about something. Good luck with that attitude, I will be leaving this blog in search of more adult conversation. Glad your not a cop anymore. We are all better off im sure. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 13, 2008 1:01 PM:
" Dash cam wrote:
"We felt sorry for him, and found him not guilty."
Then Dash cam wrote:
"...we didn't set that kid free because we felt sorry for him..."
Then Dash cam wrote:
"Call me a lier if you want, I dont really care what your opinion of me is, im just telling it like it the way I saw it."
I won't call you a liar. You've made that point better than I could have. "
"We felt sorry for him, and found him not guilty."
Then Dash cam wrote:
"...we didn't set that kid free because we felt sorry for him..."
Then Dash cam wrote:
"Call me a lier if you want, I dont really care what your opinion of me is, im just telling it like it the way I saw it."
I won't call you a liar. You've made that point better than I could have. "
Dash cam wrote on Nov 13, 2008 12:51 PM:
" Well I expect he did lose his license, and it beats me why this case went to court, everytime I have been called to jury duty its been for a BS case with little to no evidence against the defendant. All 4 times now.
It was a real waste of time and taxpayer money that only the prosecutor can answer why we were there. Maybe because they really dont have much to lose, unlike the defendant who ends up paying alot.
Call me a lier if you want, I dont really care what your opinion of me is, im just telling it like it the way I saw it. If you have been a cop in the past how long ago? How do you know what people are saying here isnt true unless you are out there witnessing the opposite right now? Im not saying all the cops in KC are bad, im saying everytime I have been called to jury duty its for some BS case with basically nothing against the defendant. My question is why are these people being arrested and charged when they have nothing on them? Intimidation to plea bargain maybe? Also, we didnt set that kid free because we felt sorry for him, we did it because the prosecution had nothing against him but a lieing cop. "
It was a real waste of time and taxpayer money that only the prosecutor can answer why we were there. Maybe because they really dont have much to lose, unlike the defendant who ends up paying alot.
Call me a lier if you want, I dont really care what your opinion of me is, im just telling it like it the way I saw it. If you have been a cop in the past how long ago? How do you know what people are saying here isnt true unless you are out there witnessing the opposite right now? Im not saying all the cops in KC are bad, im saying everytime I have been called to jury duty its for some BS case with basically nothing against the defendant. My question is why are these people being arrested and charged when they have nothing on them? Intimidation to plea bargain maybe? Also, we didnt set that kid free because we felt sorry for him, we did it because the prosecution had nothing against him but a lieing cop. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 13, 2008 12:01 PM:
" Dash cam: You're story doesn't ring true. If the "kid" had no bac or a low one, the prosecutor wouldn't have filed the case. Secondly, if he refused a breathalyzer he would have lost his license. If the prosecutor had no evidence to support a DUI or a Resisting charge, but only had a tape of the officer using excessive force, there's no way he would have taken that case to trial.
If there was a tape depicting what you say, the officer would have been investigated; either by a complaint generated by the "kid", or by the prosecutor who is duty bound to bring it to the attention of the agency head.
So, you've left out a few details in your "story". But you felt sorry for the "kid" and let him off the hook, right? Your "story" doesn't pass the smell test. "
If there was a tape depicting what you say, the officer would have been investigated; either by a complaint generated by the "kid", or by the prosecutor who is duty bound to bring it to the attention of the agency head.
So, you've left out a few details in your "story". But you felt sorry for the "kid" and let him off the hook, right? Your "story" doesn't pass the smell test. "
Dash cam wrote on Nov 13, 2008 11:36 AM:
" To Rogue, his BAC was never brought up, im gussing because it wasnt taken, or it was below the legal limit. The prosecution had nothing to prove he was drunk at all. He also refused a breathalizer, it seems he wasnt as cooperative after he was in cuffs and his head bounced off the truck door. I think most of us would have a bad attitude if you knew you did nothing wrong, and were being slammed around by a cop that obviously wanted to fight. "
John H. wrote on Nov 13, 2008 11:29 AM:
" TO: The Ghetto, whom wrote:
"When you, your family or friends become victims of a crime, you will be screaming at law enforcement and the justice system as to why they havent done anything and why the Northern Idaho panhandle has turned into an environment like Chicago's southside."
**************************************
You may be screaming, but WE WON'T ... unless they don't come out and remove the stinking corpses in a timely fashion!
Geeesh ... get a backbone and quit hiding under your bed!
The 'FRUGAL-DUDE' "
"When you, your family or friends become victims of a crime, you will be screaming at law enforcement and the justice system as to why they havent done anything and why the Northern Idaho panhandle has turned into an environment like Chicago's southside."
**************************************
You may be screaming, but WE WON'T ... unless they don't come out and remove the stinking corpses in a timely fashion!
Geeesh ... get a backbone and quit hiding under your bed!
The 'FRUGAL-DUDE' "
The Ghetto wrote on Nov 13, 2008 11:18 AM:
" I say we let all the inmmates with lesser charges go (ie; driving without privledges, DUI, drugs and domestic violence) like others have said. They will get a slap on the hand and sent on their way .... to do more serious crimes and create more victims. When you, your family or friends become victims of a crime, you will be screaming at law enforcement and the justice system as to why they havent done anything and why the Northern Idaho panhandle has turned into an environment like Chicago's southside. Great thinking people!. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 13, 2008 10:55 AM:
" I asked what the bac was because dash cam said they found him not guilty because they felt sorry for him. The bac is pertinent. Please like me. "
Hey Rogue wrote on Nov 13, 2008 10:53 AM:
" The kid was found NOT GUILTY bu a jury...why do you ask what his bac was is beyond me....you cops abuse your power in this county all the time...its why no one likes you,..we would all be better off and safer if they would lay off half the force....the jail would be less crowded too... "
dash cam wrote on Nov 13, 2008 10:27 AM:
" Those cameras dont lie. While on jury duty for a DUI case we watched a CDA cop pull over and arrest this kid. He passed all the roadside tests with flying colors, then the cop told him to put his hands behind his back, which he did, then the cop shoved him into his truck striking his head against the door. This kid was charged with DUI and resisting arrest. Why the prosecution even showed this video is a mystery as it did nothing but proove the cop to be a lier. All us jurors were thinking WTF? We felt sorry for him, and found him not guilty. His only crime was driving after midnight.
Its this kind of behavior that voters dont agree with and until the legal system cleans up their act, I for one will vote against any funding that fuels a corrupt, dishonest system. "
Its this kind of behavior that voters dont agree with and until the legal system cleans up their act, I for one will vote against any funding that fuels a corrupt, dishonest system. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 13, 2008 10:13 AM:
" COMM 101: Try a little reading comprehension to go with your Speech Communication 101. I've addressed the issue ad nauseum. The problem is the 1 or 2 people posting under multiple monikers trying to convince the world that we are living in a police state where the proletariat are beaten and violated with regularity like we're a village in Russia. Then they try to connect the failure of the jail measures to their twisted views. If their trumped up allegations had any truth to them, the Feds would be crawling all over the region investigating police brutality and allegatios of civil rights violations.
The jail measure failed like all tax increases fail...because people rarely, if ever, vote to increase their taxes, especially in a failing economy.
Head On: Do your conspiracy theories have no end? I'm no longer in the profession by the way, but if I was I wouldn't be wanting or needing your respect or that of your handful of whiners or crybabies who can't seem to stay on the right side of the law.
Here's an idea...you and your ilk get a couple of video cams and walk or drive down the street with your videos filming. As soon as the big bad cops stop you for nothing, you'll have it on film and you can give it to the TV stations, put it on YouTube, or other electronic media. If what you are saying is true, it won't take any time at all before the cops pounce on you for nothing and you'll have your proof. Go ahead. Make my day! "
The jail measure failed like all tax increases fail...because people rarely, if ever, vote to increase their taxes, especially in a failing economy.
Head On: Do your conspiracy theories have no end? I'm no longer in the profession by the way, but if I was I wouldn't be wanting or needing your respect or that of your handful of whiners or crybabies who can't seem to stay on the right side of the law.
Here's an idea...you and your ilk get a couple of video cams and walk or drive down the street with your videos filming. As soon as the big bad cops stop you for nothing, you'll have it on film and you can give it to the TV stations, put it on YouTube, or other electronic media. If what you are saying is true, it won't take any time at all before the cops pounce on you for nothing and you'll have your proof. Go ahead. Make my day! "
Head on wrote on Nov 13, 2008 5:58 AM:
" Thank you Comm 101! Rogue cop...The jail issue failed for a reason,"Let it go". There has to be an underlying reason that you continue to defend the law enforcement profession in Kootenai County. It maybe that you are in this profession and were asked by your department to frequent this site to get feed back from the voters on why the jail issue failed. If it is commmunity respect that you want, you're in the wrong profession. Discretion and humanity on the job has been replaced by quota. In response to your comment below, I guess I'm one of those paranoid whacko's who feels that they should be able to walk down the street after dark without incident. "
COMM 101 wrote on Nov 12, 2008 5:34 PM:
" Dear Rogue Cop,
There is a problem with your argument, in that you attack the person rather than address the issue.
Sincerely,
Intro to Speech Communication 101 (COMM101) "
There is a problem with your argument, in that you attack the person rather than address the issue.
Sincerely,
Intro to Speech Communication 101 (COMM101) "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 12, 2008 5:02 PM:
" head on: OH PLEASE, Where do you people live and hang out? I live here. My family lives here. I have hundreds of friends who live here and NEVER heard stories like the crap I'm reading here. You people are either paranoid whackos or you hang with a criminal element. "
head on wrote on Nov 12, 2008 4:52 PM:
" Oh my God!!!!!!
I cannot answer that question, but I can tell you that this 'change' has resulted in a police force so overtly hostile that many of us fear leaving our houses at night. Not because we may run into some street thug, but because being out after dark in our community, whether on foot or in a vehicle, makes you a target for police contact - no matter *what* you are doing.
Yes Rogue cop, I cut and pasted this.
"Are you listening" hit it right on the head with this comment.
When my son was 10 I always told him to be home by dark. Now, at the age of 19 I'm still asking him to be home by dark. When police in my town see a teen walking down the street they immediatly assume they have lost their driving privilidges because they have messed up, therefore they are up to no good. It's after dark when they come out like vampires. Our town is known as the "Kiddy Kop town" our officers are scared to death of the adult population. It's a joke. "
I cannot answer that question, but I can tell you that this 'change' has resulted in a police force so overtly hostile that many of us fear leaving our houses at night. Not because we may run into some street thug, but because being out after dark in our community, whether on foot or in a vehicle, makes you a target for police contact - no matter *what* you are doing.
Yes Rogue cop, I cut and pasted this.
"Are you listening" hit it right on the head with this comment.
When my son was 10 I always told him to be home by dark. Now, at the age of 19 I'm still asking him to be home by dark. When police in my town see a teen walking down the street they immediatly assume they have lost their driving privilidges because they have messed up, therefore they are up to no good. It's after dark when they come out like vampires. Our town is known as the "Kiddy Kop town" our officers are scared to death of the adult population. It's a joke. "
Voter wrote on Nov 10, 2008 2:39 PM:
" I'm glad the jail expansion failed, let some of them out. Why does the court impose such long sentences anyway? That's like punishing the community, we gotta feed them.
I vote we make jails less than comfortable, so maybe they won't want to go back, make them innmates work, to feed themselves, if they don't work they don't eat. I know a woman who spent 5 months in for a ridiculious charge, stop the stupid folks and we won't need such big jails. "
I vote we make jails less than comfortable, so maybe they won't want to go back, make them innmates work, to feed themselves, if they don't work they don't eat. I know a woman who spent 5 months in for a ridiculious charge, stop the stupid folks and we won't need such big jails. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 10, 2008 1:13 PM:
" Sorry, not part of that small inner circle. Never was. What I'm defending is my own position and challenging asinine comments made by some of your friends that can't be backed up by law or by facts. If you're tired of reading it, here's an idea...DON'T READ IT. "
To Rogue wrote on Nov 10, 2008 12:59 PM:
" you guys are not very well thought of in this county are you...??? you ever stop and wonder why..?? i dont understand wwhy you post so much defending your position...makes you look more foolish than you are....you should just stay in the small circle of friends you have...fellow officers...tired of seeing your senseless bantor on here "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 7:01 PM:
" ASH, there's a big difference between being a libertarian and a communist. What do you agree with 'Easy Fix' on, that the measure failed because of all the bad, nasty, corrupt cops? Or is it because he said that people have gone to prison for a long time for expired license plates or having a barking dog? Decorated war veterans are appalled at the local cops? The Police in Kootenai County are without a doubt as a whole the worst, most unreasonably violent, most dishonest cops in Idaho? That his elderly parents won't even visit here anymore because they were mistreated by the local constabulary?
Are those the statements that make you ultimately agree with Easy Fix? That's your choice. It doesn't make you a communist but...being shipped to China to work in a prison camp must be better than living in Kootenai County. Sounds like an 'easy fix' to me. "
Are those the statements that make you ultimately agree with Easy Fix? That's your choice. It doesn't make you a communist but...being shipped to China to work in a prison camp must be better than living in Kootenai County. Sounds like an 'easy fix' to me. "
bill schwartz wrote on Nov 9, 2008 6:51 PM:
" It would appear to me that consideration of the economic times that are facing all of our citizens may not have been considered. Local as well as State and Federal goverments had better wake up. It may not be that the needs of jail expansion are indeed necessary. However Mr. commissioners and Sheriff, what adjustments have you made to cut costs. Please do not say we have done all we can. In todays troubled times, that statement just does not cut it. Not when I see a sheriffs vehicle being used to travel to and from Pinehurst Idaho several times a week. I know the deputy lives in pinehurst, and is subject to call out 24 hours a day. What is the cost of travel every week. I am not picking on this officer but bringing to your attention that cuts need to be made. It is time that folks in Kootenai County review what expences may be cut from county budgets. Not all the money needed will be found to build the necessary jail buildings. But lets trim the items that we could get along without and focus on the Jail as a necessary project "
ASH wrote on Nov 9, 2008 6:28 PM:
" wow...i just read this whole post from top to bottom...theres actually less personal attacks and name calling in this thread than in many others...especially considering such a hot topic...easyfix and rogue cop both have GREAT arguments...ultimately i agree with easy fix...now ill just wait for rogue cop or that other crazy *rick to call me a communist or a libertarian...or say that i should be shipped to china to work in a prison camp... "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 4:28 PM:
" Fraud vitiates consent. Obama perpetrated a fraud on the American people to get elected. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 9, 2008 3:47 PM:
" "People just don't voluntarily vote to raise their taxes."
Except when they just now voted for Obama! "
Except when they just now voted for Obama! "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 9, 2008 3:02 PM:
" I never argued there "should be no laws controlling vehicles on highways, no control or restriction on alcohol consumption or dangerous drugs, no laws restricting hunting and fishing."
What I said was that many, if not most of those crimes should not be jailable offenses. Do you really think every broken law should be attended with an arrest and jail sentence?
Commissioner Tondee stated the Jail bond failed because of a "bad economy." That is an obvious untruth. Our President-elect just got elected by promising to dramatically raise taxes and spending, and that was in the selfsame "bad economy!"
If anything, a gigantic public works project like the proposed jail is usually accepted as a potent stimulous to the local economy. No, a 65 percent vote against this behemeth is a sure sign that the public is disgusted with the local police. "
What I said was that many, if not most of those crimes should not be jailable offenses. Do you really think every broken law should be attended with an arrest and jail sentence?
Commissioner Tondee stated the Jail bond failed because of a "bad economy." That is an obvious untruth. Our President-elect just got elected by promising to dramatically raise taxes and spending, and that was in the selfsame "bad economy!"
If anything, a gigantic public works project like the proposed jail is usually accepted as a potent stimulous to the local economy. No, a 65 percent vote against this behemeth is a sure sign that the public is disgusted with the local police. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 2:48 PM:
" Easy Fix: Now, once again you try to deflect by asserting that I said something about a "bad economy", or "unemployment". Rather, I think they voted against it because those types of measures RARELY pass. People just don't voluntarily vote to raise their taxes.
So, EVERYONE you have talked to says they "voted against it because of bad cops." Looks like your circle of friends travel the dark side. That explains a lot about your views, actually.
My head is not in the sand as opposed to yours sir, which is planted in such a position that you would need a glass stomach to see what you're doing. Word. "
So, EVERYONE you have talked to says they "voted against it because of bad cops." Looks like your circle of friends travel the dark side. That explains a lot about your views, actually.
My head is not in the sand as opposed to yours sir, which is planted in such a position that you would need a glass stomach to see what you're doing. Word. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 2:38 PM:
" Easy Fix: Why would it be demeaning to answer a simple question?
For you to assert that people have "gone to jail for a long time in Kootenai County" for the offenses you listed are ludicrous. Several of those violations are traffic infractions for which NOBODY goes to jail "for a long time". My intent in asking you the question was to draw out of you what has become evident...You're a libertarian and you don't want the state to investigate or legislate so-called "victimless crimes".
So to extrapolate your views, there should be no laws controlling vehicles on highways, no control or restriction on alcohol consumption or dangerous drugs, no laws restricting hunting and fishing.
Rather than make up stories out of whole cloth why don't you just be honest and tell us you're a libertarian or anarchist or however you view yourself? "
For you to assert that people have "gone to jail for a long time in Kootenai County" for the offenses you listed are ludicrous. Several of those violations are traffic infractions for which NOBODY goes to jail "for a long time". My intent in asking you the question was to draw out of you what has become evident...You're a libertarian and you don't want the state to investigate or legislate so-called "victimless crimes".
So to extrapolate your views, there should be no laws controlling vehicles on highways, no control or restriction on alcohol consumption or dangerous drugs, no laws restricting hunting and fishing.
Rather than make up stories out of whole cloth why don't you just be honest and tell us you're a libertarian or anarchist or however you view yourself? "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 9, 2008 2:27 PM:
" So you must think that when 65 percent of the voters voted against a jail expansion it is really because of a bad economy, with 6 percent unemployment at that? I haven't heard anybody say that they voted against it because of the "bad economy."
Everyone I have talked to says they voted against it because of "bad cops."
Again, who have you talked to? You prove nothing by keeping your head firmly lodged in the sand. "
Everyone I have talked to says they voted against it because of "bad cops."
Again, who have you talked to? You prove nothing by keeping your head firmly lodged in the sand. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 2:20 PM:
" Easy Fix: If what you're saying is true, why is the population of Kootenai County increasing at such a rapid rate? I talk to people ALL THE TIME, including family and friends, who visit here and have NO contact (good or bad) with Police or Sheriff's Deputies.
I have observed that there is a general lack of professionalism and knowledge as compared with other regions in the U.S., but the routine and almost blatant disregard for the rule of law which you describe is more anecdotal than par for the course.
I have received a few citations from local police agencies over the years and I fought 1 and won it. I was guilty of the others so I paid the fines.
All this "mistreatment" of which you speak is mere hyperbole. "
I have observed that there is a general lack of professionalism and knowledge as compared with other regions in the U.S., but the routine and almost blatant disregard for the rule of law which you describe is more anecdotal than par for the course.
I have received a few citations from local police agencies over the years and I fought 1 and won it. I was guilty of the others so I paid the fines.
All this "mistreatment" of which you speak is mere hyperbole. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 9, 2008 2:20 PM:
" Rogue Cop, I did not previously demean you by answering your question because it seems impossible that you could be that stupid.
Here is a quick list of Non-violent, non-property crimes that people have gone to jail for a long time in Kootenai County: Driving without a license, barking dog, violation of no-contact order (particularly where the alleged "victim" has requested that charges and the NCO be dropped), hunting without a license, fishing without a license, Open container, drug charges (especially marijuana), paraphernalia, overweight, overload, failure to carry insurance, failure to carry registration, expired license plates.
\
I am sure that a quick look at the Idaho traffic code and criminal code would produce 100's more. "
Here is a quick list of Non-violent, non-property crimes that people have gone to jail for a long time in Kootenai County: Driving without a license, barking dog, violation of no-contact order (particularly where the alleged "victim" has requested that charges and the NCO be dropped), hunting without a license, fishing without a license, Open container, drug charges (especially marijuana), paraphernalia, overweight, overload, failure to carry insurance, failure to carry registration, expired license plates.
\
I am sure that a quick look at the Idaho traffic code and criminal code would produce 100's more. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 2:08 PM:
" Easy Fix: Still waiting for your answers about "non-violent non-property crimes".
You and "Are You Listening" like to talk in broad esoteric terms with no detail and no examples to back it up. "
You and "Are You Listening" like to talk in broad esoteric terms with no detail and no examples to back it up. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 9, 2008 2:04 PM:
" Rogue cop: I personally know of many people who are not criminals or have a criminal background who tell their family and freinds from out of the area who are thinking about visiting the splended scenery of Kootenai County not to risk it because of the nearly certain danger of being badly mistreated by the local rogue police.
Especially young people: our family is loathe to even allow young relatives and friends to visit here and so 95 percent of the time we are the ones doing the traveling. It adds up to thousands of extra miles a year on our part, but its just too dangerous and scary to even think about risking a loved one coming here.
I have had decorated war veterans with perfect records who are just appalled by the Police activity that is just so obvious and unconstrained everywhere they go in Kootenai County. My elderly parents were mildly, in comparison to most of the stories you here, mistreated and were so outraged by the Policeman's obvious lies that they refuse to visit here again. "
Especially young people: our family is loathe to even allow young relatives and friends to visit here and so 95 percent of the time we are the ones doing the traveling. It adds up to thousands of extra miles a year on our part, but its just too dangerous and scary to even think about risking a loved one coming here.
I have had decorated war veterans with perfect records who are just appalled by the Police activity that is just so obvious and unconstrained everywhere they go in Kootenai County. My elderly parents were mildly, in comparison to most of the stories you here, mistreated and were so outraged by the Policeman's obvious lies that they refuse to visit here again. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 9, 2008 1:52 PM:
" I am currently, and have been in a position for many years, to hear out the opinions of people on their treatment by the local police. I have not always enjoyed being such a unwilling sounding board! I have never, ever set purposely out to elicit the following discussion.
In no other place I've experienced but Northern Idaho do the unsolicited stories from everyday people point almost unanimously to serious Police Misconduct on an unchecked systematic level.
In three other jurisdictions in Idaho, no matter what the charge (just or unjust), no matter how hardened and guilty the defendant have I witnessed such disturbinglyh consistent and unanimous complaints regarding such extraordinarily egregious police misconduct. Police in Northern Idaho lie to an extent that it appears to be a mandatory term of their employment. Police in Northern Idaho quickly resort to unecessary and extreme violence against civilians on a level that I never dreamed possible. In the other three jurisdictions I have been involved with, you might personally witness 2 or 3 obviously unfounded complaints a year from clearly dilusional/psychotic defendants. Because of their rarity, and the internal wild incoosistencies with their tale of woe, no sane person would have found their story credible. And so nobody does. There is a clear level of obvious professionalism, courtesy and honesty among the various Police departments throughout Idaho that makes such wild accusations against them so patently unbelievable on their face.
In Kootenai County, the rate is at least 50 percent, and that is if you completely ignore and discount the citizen's view of the facts and take the Police documentation at its face value! The Police in Northern Idaho are so used to having their behavior tolderated that they are just brazen about it. Unless of course they are confronted on it in Court (rarely), whereupon they just lie about what happened.
Not because I wanted to, or because I set out to hold my opinions, I have concluded that the Police in Kootenai County are without a doubt as a whole the worst, most unreasonably violent, most dishonest cops in Idaho. And because the votes against jail expansion are getting bigger and bigger majorities over time, it is obvious that the voters are responding to and protesting their own bad personal experiences with Kootenai County's Rogue cops.
Lopsided supermajority votes against jail expansion just cannot be explained away by a "bad economy." Even when the economy was white hot, the voters STILL voted against a bigger jail by huge majorities. "
In no other place I've experienced but Northern Idaho do the unsolicited stories from everyday people point almost unanimously to serious Police Misconduct on an unchecked systematic level.
In three other jurisdictions in Idaho, no matter what the charge (just or unjust), no matter how hardened and guilty the defendant have I witnessed such disturbinglyh consistent and unanimous complaints regarding such extraordinarily egregious police misconduct. Police in Northern Idaho lie to an extent that it appears to be a mandatory term of their employment. Police in Northern Idaho quickly resort to unecessary and extreme violence against civilians on a level that I never dreamed possible. In the other three jurisdictions I have been involved with, you might personally witness 2 or 3 obviously unfounded complaints a year from clearly dilusional/psychotic defendants. Because of their rarity, and the internal wild incoosistencies with their tale of woe, no sane person would have found their story credible. And so nobody does. There is a clear level of obvious professionalism, courtesy and honesty among the various Police departments throughout Idaho that makes such wild accusations against them so patently unbelievable on their face.
In Kootenai County, the rate is at least 50 percent, and that is if you completely ignore and discount the citizen's view of the facts and take the Police documentation at its face value! The Police in Northern Idaho are so used to having their behavior tolderated that they are just brazen about it. Unless of course they are confronted on it in Court (rarely), whereupon they just lie about what happened.
Not because I wanted to, or because I set out to hold my opinions, I have concluded that the Police in Kootenai County are without a doubt as a whole the worst, most unreasonably violent, most dishonest cops in Idaho. And because the votes against jail expansion are getting bigger and bigger majorities over time, it is obvious that the voters are responding to and protesting their own bad personal experiences with Kootenai County's Rogue cops.
Lopsided supermajority votes against jail expansion just cannot be explained away by a "bad economy." Even when the economy was white hot, the voters STILL voted against a bigger jail by huge majorities. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 1:22 PM:
" To Are You Listening:
How about: "...but I can tell you that this 'change' has resulted in a police force so overtly hostile that many of us fear leaving our houses at night. Not because we may run into some street thug, but because being out after dark in our community, whether on foot or in a vehicle, makes you a target for police contact - no matter *what* you are doing."
or this: " I am serious when I say that, by far, the biggest danger I encounter in this community is the danger of coming into contact with the police. THAT is the frightening fact of the matter. The ruin brought upon a person who still thinks that the police are here to protect them, still thinks that if they just talk to the officers and help the officers figure out whats going on then they will assuredly see their way home rather than to jail...... the ruin brought upon a person unaware of their rights and unaware of the danger police contact presents them..."
This is the rhetoric typically used in an attempt to turn the masses against the current government in order to advance the overthrow of the government and supplant a communist style governance. Your statements are incidiary and exaggerated and to what end??? Create fear, chaos, and lack of confidence. Let it fester and start with law enforcement...because law enforcement is the thin blue line preventing such anarchy. "
How about: "...but I can tell you that this 'change' has resulted in a police force so overtly hostile that many of us fear leaving our houses at night. Not because we may run into some street thug, but because being out after dark in our community, whether on foot or in a vehicle, makes you a target for police contact - no matter *what* you are doing."
or this: " I am serious when I say that, by far, the biggest danger I encounter in this community is the danger of coming into contact with the police. THAT is the frightening fact of the matter. The ruin brought upon a person who still thinks that the police are here to protect them, still thinks that if they just talk to the officers and help the officers figure out whats going on then they will assuredly see their way home rather than to jail...... the ruin brought upon a person unaware of their rights and unaware of the danger police contact presents them..."
This is the rhetoric typically used in an attempt to turn the masses against the current government in order to advance the overthrow of the government and supplant a communist style governance. Your statements are incidiary and exaggerated and to what end??? Create fear, chaos, and lack of confidence. Let it fester and start with law enforcement...because law enforcement is the thin blue line preventing such anarchy. "
Are You Listening wrote on Nov 9, 2008 12:52 PM:
" I didn't cut and paste *any* of what I wrote. I wrote too much, true. But, it is all my writing. Thank you for reading my comment, Rouge. I genuinely appreciate the time you spent to do so.
Further, I am curious what, specifically, you've identified as communistic in my writing. Might you explain further, and relate your explanation to communism? "
Further, I am curious what, specifically, you've identified as communistic in my writing. Might you explain further, and relate your explanation to communism? "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 12:40 PM:
" To Are You Listening: Your message looks like something out of a communist manifesto. Where did you find that crap that you cut and pasted? "
Are You Listening wrote on Nov 9, 2008 12:12 PM:
" The wheels of justice turn slowly for good reason. And 'change' in policies also happens slowly, by tremendous effort over a period of years, sometimes decades. The system is set up that way, it has a measure of built-in stability which prevents radical and fundamental changes overnight, yet it has also a built-in mechanism for slow and incremental changes to be made. Cumulatively, slowly, these small changes effect an overall shift and there is the beauty of our system, it is an overall solid and sturdy system which has its own mechanisms to change, to adapt.
The public opinion regarding *what* constitutes a crime has shifted dramatically.
There was a time that a tough on crime policy and a tough on criminals mindset was the bare minimum needed to garner public support. I think that has not changed. The public is a fickle entity at heart: one day demanding protection from a host of evils both real and imagined, and the next day railing against the unfairness of the system...
What has changed so dramatically, to have a large percentage of people expressing dissatisfaction with our system of justice and distrust of law enforcement in our community?
What standard of police conduct has lead to a more and more predatory behavior?
What mandate do our officers have to be so aggressive toward regular people, everyday people?
I cannot answer that question, but I can tell you that this 'change' has resulted in a police force so overtly hostile that many of us fear leaving our houses at night. Not because we may run into some street thug, but because being out after dark in our community, whether on foot or in a vehicle, makes you a target for police contact - no matter *what* you are doing.
I am serious when I say that, by far, the biggest danger I encounter in this community is the danger of coming into contact with the police. THAT is the frightening fact of the matter. The ruin brought upon a person who still thinks that the police are here to protect them, still thinks that if they just talk to the officers and help the officers figure out whats going on then they will assuredly see their way home rather than to jail...... the ruin brought upon a person unaware of their rights and unaware of the danger police contact presents them,
that ruin is
what I suspect
will cause
a formerly supportive public
to think twice about WHAT it is that they are supporting
and, to me, this is a very good thing.
I almost think everyone would benefit from the experience of being jacked-up on the 'Idaho-Invent-A-Warrant program',
or the 'Kootenai-County-'Welfare-Check',
or the 'You-Don't-Drive-an-SUV' traffic emphasis patrols
and spend a night at county,
go through booking,
the strip search,
the whole shebang.
More and more regular folks are getting to know just how contemptuous and degrading our system actually is to those who get injected into it.
Always through fault of their own, of course.
Just another shovel full of fodder to feed the gaping maw of the beast (great analogy, Easy Fix. I hope you don't mind...)
A beast who has now grown so big, and so hungry, that it is beginning to feed on itself.
I urge you to continue your current path.
I can think of no better way to present a better picture of what you are actually doing
than to keep on doing it. "
The public opinion regarding *what* constitutes a crime has shifted dramatically.
There was a time that a tough on crime policy and a tough on criminals mindset was the bare minimum needed to garner public support. I think that has not changed. The public is a fickle entity at heart: one day demanding protection from a host of evils both real and imagined, and the next day railing against the unfairness of the system...
What has changed so dramatically, to have a large percentage of people expressing dissatisfaction with our system of justice and distrust of law enforcement in our community?
What standard of police conduct has lead to a more and more predatory behavior?
What mandate do our officers have to be so aggressive toward regular people, everyday people?
I cannot answer that question, but I can tell you that this 'change' has resulted in a police force so overtly hostile that many of us fear leaving our houses at night. Not because we may run into some street thug, but because being out after dark in our community, whether on foot or in a vehicle, makes you a target for police contact - no matter *what* you are doing.
I am serious when I say that, by far, the biggest danger I encounter in this community is the danger of coming into contact with the police. THAT is the frightening fact of the matter. The ruin brought upon a person who still thinks that the police are here to protect them, still thinks that if they just talk to the officers and help the officers figure out whats going on then they will assuredly see their way home rather than to jail...... the ruin brought upon a person unaware of their rights and unaware of the danger police contact presents them,
that ruin is
what I suspect
will cause
a formerly supportive public
to think twice about WHAT it is that they are supporting
and, to me, this is a very good thing.
I almost think everyone would benefit from the experience of being jacked-up on the 'Idaho-Invent-A-Warrant program',
or the 'Kootenai-County-'Welfare-Check',
or the 'You-Don't-Drive-an-SUV' traffic emphasis patrols
and spend a night at county,
go through booking,
the strip search,
the whole shebang.
More and more regular folks are getting to know just how contemptuous and degrading our system actually is to those who get injected into it.
Always through fault of their own, of course.
Just another shovel full of fodder to feed the gaping maw of the beast (great analogy, Easy Fix. I hope you don't mind...)
A beast who has now grown so big, and so hungry, that it is beginning to feed on itself.
I urge you to continue your current path.
I can think of no better way to present a better picture of what you are actually doing
than to keep on doing it. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 11:35 AM:
" To 2020: Actually I voted against the measures also. I'm just addressing comments that people make about law enforcement that I see as erroneous. The problem with not putting probation violators in jail is that it becomes a slippery slope. If you receive probation and there are certain conditions to that probation, and you violate one or more conditons, what should the consequences be?
People who don't honor the conditions of probation probably will continue to violate those conditions as well as other laws.
It's all about who's ox is being gored. If you've been in an accident caused by a drunk driver and the driver gets probation, and gets drunk again and drives...what will cause him to learn his lesson an how would you feel if you were the one who was victimzed by his drunk driving?
Calling a crime "minor" is in the mind of the beholder. What about the drunk driver who was on probation, gets drunk and then injures or kills someone in an accident? It's not as simple an issue as some people believe. By the way, most people who are arrested on a probation violation are the result of a warrant and law enforcement has no choice in the matter. A warrant is an order by a judge to arrest an individual. "
People who don't honor the conditions of probation probably will continue to violate those conditions as well as other laws.
It's all about who's ox is being gored. If you've been in an accident caused by a drunk driver and the driver gets probation, and gets drunk again and drives...what will cause him to learn his lesson an how would you feel if you were the one who was victimzed by his drunk driving?
Calling a crime "minor" is in the mind of the beholder. What about the drunk driver who was on probation, gets drunk and then injures or kills someone in an accident? It's not as simple an issue as some people believe. By the way, most people who are arrested on a probation violation are the result of a warrant and law enforcement has no choice in the matter. A warrant is an order by a judge to arrest an individual. "
2020 wrote on Nov 9, 2008 11:08 AM:
" In response to "Rogue cop". This is my view! This is what my experience has been and I have learned from it. I know where you stand, it's obvious with the many statements you have made in this comment section. I'm not saying your wrong or right, because that is your view. My view and my point is as many others, that we (Kootenai County) do not need a new jail. What needs to be done is we need to filter out the first time offenders based on the criminality. Offenders incarcerated due to a probation violation for a .03 blood alcohol content is rediculous. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 9, 2008 10:23 AM:
" Wow: The reasonable suspicion discussion has nothing to do with a new jail. I was specifically addressing a point made about cops stopping a guy based on a suspicion. If you are trying to connect the two, that's a foolich attempt.
Too many people here think they know the law and their obvious attempt at playing lawyer makes them look foolish.
2020: You said that once you're in the system it's almost impossible to get out. But previously you said habitual offenders are the ones that are out on the street. That's not true and it's a simplistic way of viewing the issue. "
Too many people here think they know the law and their obvious attempt at playing lawyer makes them look foolish.
2020: You said that once you're in the system it's almost impossible to get out. But previously you said habitual offenders are the ones that are out on the street. That's not true and it's a simplistic way of viewing the issue. "
2020 wrote on Nov 9, 2008 9:02 AM:
" After reading the comments posted on this page, I see that the negative comments out weigh the positive 10 to 1. Rightfully so,I am also one of those citizens with a negative attitude regarding the over zealous officers and the judicial system in Kootenai County. Seems that the habitual offenders are the ones that are out on the street only because they know how to work the system, where as many that are incarcerated or who are struggling through the system are there only because they are ignorant of their rights. Hind sight is 20/20, next time I will know better. I thought I was teaching my child right from wrong by pleading guilty to an offense in which he was guilty of. Turns out, I was wrong! Plead not guilty and you will receive a plea bargain. What a deal, huh? Once you're in the system it's almost impossible to get out. It's all about the revenue! Incarceration $$$, probation $$$, counciling $$$ and random drug testing $$$. "
Wow wrote on Nov 9, 2008 6:48 AM:
" To Rouge cop, the "reasonable mans standard w/ a police officers experience" obviously isnt what the public opinions standard wants, or you would have a new jail to keep more innocent people in. "
to question for law enforcement wrote on Nov 9, 2008 5:24 AM:
" As for you first questions "HEAVY/WIDE LOAD W/O PERMIT" this sounds like a commerical charge typically done by ISP. That question would be best answered by them.
As for the ALLOW TO BARK, that sounds to me as that person was arrested on a warrant issued by a judge. I don't know of any officer in this county that would arrest anyone for allowing the dog to bark unless a judge had issued a warrant on that. And we (Law Enforcement) are bond by State Law to arrest persons with warrants. So I would ask that you consider that when pass judgment on police that we just arrest everyone "
As for the ALLOW TO BARK, that sounds to me as that person was arrested on a warrant issued by a judge. I don't know of any officer in this county that would arrest anyone for allowing the dog to bark unless a judge had issued a warrant on that. And we (Law Enforcement) are bond by State Law to arrest persons with warrants. So I would ask that you consider that when pass judgment on police that we just arrest everyone "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 8, 2008 8:16 PM:
" WHOA Easy Fix...what are "non-violent non-property crimes" and if you were a victim of whatever they are, wouldn't you be a little 'ticked-off' if the prosecutor dismissed it?
Just what is included and excluded in "non-violent non-property crimes"? "
Just what is included and excluded in "non-violent non-property crimes"? "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 8, 2008 8:10 PM:
" Easy Fix: It's obvious you're no constitutional scholar and I made no such reference to Kootenai County, Sherlock. You're confusing reasonable suspicion with probable cause. The correct standard for determining reasonable suspicion is based on the totality of the circumstances as understood by those versed in the field of law enforcement; it is commonly described as something more than a hunch but less than probable cause. (It's the reasonable man standard with a police officer's experience.)
You, my friend, need to do some more reading or perhaps watch some Perry Mason reruns. Quit playing Pizza Parlor Lawyer. That's akin to mal-practice. But, then again, nobody would take you serious anyway. "
You, my friend, need to do some more reading or perhaps watch some Perry Mason reruns. Quit playing Pizza Parlor Lawyer. That's akin to mal-practice. But, then again, nobody would take you serious anyway. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 8, 2008 7:32 PM:
" It really is as easy as the last poster said. And everyone agreees that the kind of crimes listed by "Question for Law Enforcement" i.e. Crimes against property, sexual crimes, DUI, and violent crimes deserve to be in jail.
Spokane County dismisses scores of non-violent non-property crimes and the defendant immediately goes free and there is NO public outcry. It is obvious that there is way too much police activity that does not pertain to the public good and far too many cops in Kootenai County, and the taxpayers know that we can no longer afford it. That is what Tuesday's lopside vote against jail expansion means. "
Spokane County dismisses scores of non-violent non-property crimes and the defendant immediately goes free and there is NO public outcry. It is obvious that there is way too much police activity that does not pertain to the public good and far too many cops in Kootenai County, and the taxpayers know that we can no longer afford it. That is what Tuesday's lopside vote against jail expansion means. "
Question for Law Enforcement wrote on Nov 8, 2008 11:26 AM:
" DONT BE STUPID said: " How about stop putting people in jail who shouldn't be there? "
It seems just that easy to me, too. Couple of weeks ago (before the jail expansion was put to a vote, obviously), I spent some time going through the inmate roster at the KCSD website and theoretically weeding out those persons whose crimes did not include property crime, violent crime, sexual crime or drunk driving. Everyone else I 'let-go'. The severely over crowded jail went from around 350 inmates to about 120. I shared the results of my analysis here and received some good rebuttals from folks who felt the issue was not that easy, not that 'one-dimensional'.
If I may, I wonder if any of the law enforcement professionals who might be reading here today might take a moment to offer a guess as to why, for the love of Pete, an officer would see fit to arrest a person for (and here is the charge) HEAVY/WIDE LOAD W/O PERMIT?
The reason I ask is because.... well, someone did. See fit, I mean. To INCARCERATE a driver for the above crime, that is.
If you are still feeling charitable, I've one more burning curiosity,
this one regarding the man arrested by a CDA police officer for (here is the charge, get ready)
ALLOW DOG TO BARK .
My comment is offered with a fair bit of skepticism that there will be a suitable explanation to accompany those questions.
Still, if there were one....... "
It seems just that easy to me, too. Couple of weeks ago (before the jail expansion was put to a vote, obviously), I spent some time going through the inmate roster at the KCSD website and theoretically weeding out those persons whose crimes did not include property crime, violent crime, sexual crime or drunk driving. Everyone else I 'let-go'. The severely over crowded jail went from around 350 inmates to about 120. I shared the results of my analysis here and received some good rebuttals from folks who felt the issue was not that easy, not that 'one-dimensional'.
If I may, I wonder if any of the law enforcement professionals who might be reading here today might take a moment to offer a guess as to why, for the love of Pete, an officer would see fit to arrest a person for (and here is the charge) HEAVY/WIDE LOAD W/O PERMIT?
The reason I ask is because.... well, someone did. See fit, I mean. To INCARCERATE a driver for the above crime, that is.
If you are still feeling charitable, I've one more burning curiosity,
this one regarding the man arrested by a CDA police officer for (here is the charge, get ready)
ALLOW DOG TO BARK .
My comment is offered with a fair bit of skepticism that there will be a suitable explanation to accompany those questions.
Still, if there were one....... "
To Face it wrote on Nov 8, 2008 9:30 AM:
" Let's just face it....MOST of the people in this county/city are fed up with and hate the cops...
You are speaking for yourself and the little gang of punks you drink with.
If you had half a brain, or the one you have wasn't severly altered by alcohol and/or controlled substances you would know how dumb your comment really was.
The real world does not see it as you do. "
You are speaking for yourself and the little gang of punks you drink with.
If you had half a brain, or the one you have wasn't severly altered by alcohol and/or controlled substances you would know how dumb your comment really was.
The real world does not see it as you do. "
face it... wrote on Nov 8, 2008 1:08 AM:
" Let's just face it....MOST of the people in this county/city are fed up with and hate the cops...not just the criminals....everyone. If you are a cop you are not liked even by those who DO NOT have a criminal record. It is becoming quite clear that our cops are over zealous jerks who need a good lesson in humanity and integrity because they ALL lack in these attributes. Longo? What happened to you? Why are you letting these cops of yours get away with this stuff and Rocky....you just will keep on keepin on and let your officers sleep with other women, while on the job I might add, because I know this for a fact, and just let it all slide and then keep people like Dennis Steinbaugh and Barry Alleman on your staff so they can destroy even more of the county reputation. It's time for the head honchos to clean house. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:15 PM:
" Rogue Cop: I correctly cited the constitutional standard, which of course as you noted is not applicable in Kootenai County.
BTW, rather than debate the Constitution, which has little or no force in Kootenai County; why don't you improve upon your moniker and just learn to lie better? That's actually the path to promotion in Kootenai County. Why worry about Constitutional niceties when you can just lie in your police report?
Everybody else does it. "
BTW, rather than debate the Constitution, which has little or no force in Kootenai County; why don't you improve upon your moniker and just learn to lie better? That's actually the path to promotion in Kootenai County. Why worry about Constitutional niceties when you can just lie in your police report?
Everybody else does it. "
I agree wrote on Nov 7, 2008 5:31 AM:
" With "to Rogue cop" in the sense that the actions of the police directly effect the public opinion. I think this failed jail expansion project screams loud and clear of the public opinion of our legal system.
It makes sense to me that for every wrongfull arrest, there are 10 to 20 friends and family that are vicimized by the system. If the person is dirtbag, these people expect that he will eventually be arrested, but its those innocent people that are wrongfully accused, lose everything they have, jobs, home, families, because they have been trapped in a predatory legal system that targets anyone and everyone it can. These people have many friends and family that vote.
Even those on jury duty like me, have seen the ridiculous cases and railroad attempts by police and prosecutors on innocent people that have done nothing wrong. Jurors have friends and family that vote too.
I think our entire legal system needs to be reformed. This system of the more they arrest/prosecute the more money they make, is failing the citizens, and causing overcrowding issues. Voters dont want to pay for, or pay to expand a legal system whos motto is guilty until proven innocent.
I find it actually quite arrogant that they would ask the taxpayers to fund a 180 million dollar hotel expansion so they can make even more money housing those who,(if business as usual) dont deserve to be there. "
It makes sense to me that for every wrongfull arrest, there are 10 to 20 friends and family that are vicimized by the system. If the person is dirtbag, these people expect that he will eventually be arrested, but its those innocent people that are wrongfully accused, lose everything they have, jobs, home, families, because they have been trapped in a predatory legal system that targets anyone and everyone it can. These people have many friends and family that vote.
Even those on jury duty like me, have seen the ridiculous cases and railroad attempts by police and prosecutors on innocent people that have done nothing wrong. Jurors have friends and family that vote too.
I think our entire legal system needs to be reformed. This system of the more they arrest/prosecute the more money they make, is failing the citizens, and causing overcrowding issues. Voters dont want to pay for, or pay to expand a legal system whos motto is guilty until proven innocent.
I find it actually quite arrogant that they would ask the taxpayers to fund a 180 million dollar hotel expansion so they can make even more money housing those who,(if business as usual) dont deserve to be there. "
To Rogue cop wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:26 AM:
" its cops like you that has turned this community against your profession...if you guys would actually catch a criminal instead of looking for reasons to harass ordinary citizens...you would be more liked....i cant believe the blatant misuse of power and the egotistical mind set of the officers in this county...starts at the top and ends up with ones such as you at the bottom.. "
Someone Who Cares wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:27 PM:
" Watch out Kootenai County! I live in Cowlitz County, Washington. Our voters voted down a jail bond, I believe, three times. Guess what! The county commissioners pulled some hocus pocus and poof! They found extra money in a landfill designated account and built the jail anyways. Talk about pissing off the voters. Kootenai County commissioners you need to listen to your voters. If not, they will elect new commissioners, just like we did. Voters don't like being lied to and manipulated. Why don't you look at the prisoners that are being kept in there. I know of one person who got sentenced to 6 months for driving without privileges. He's not even allowed work release. Start clearing out the jail of the non-violent offenders and keep those in that truly deserve to be there. Make the non-violent offenders participate in work crew doing things around the county that would actually save money. One big word of advice: LISTEN TO YOUR VOTERS!! "
Aristotle wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:00 PM:
" The County powers that be really don't get it. If they want a jail, consider build a regional jail with lots of jurisdictions participating to keep costs down. They have jails in Washington too. Also look at the jail population. Do they all need to be there? That is a law and order court problem but the County should be looking at it. Probation, work furlough, home detention, seem to be used in other jurisdictions successfully. It is time the County started thinking instead of just demanding the same solution which the voters obviously aren't going to approve. "
to PMP wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:46 PM:
" Rogue cops are symbols of nepotism. their families have average IQs of 80 and couldn't find a perp if their life depended on it let alone protect the public. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 5, 2008 5:29 PM:
" PMP: You just topped your previous comment for stupidity. With supporters like you...the law enforcement community doesn't need any enemies. Draconian immaturity??? "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 5, 2008 5:23 PM:
" Easy Fix: Define reasonable suspicion. Does it have anything to do with the reasonable man theory, and is it affected in any way by the reasonable man with a police officer's experience...and the officer's ability to articulate?
Before you get in too deep Sherlock, you better hit the law library. 10-4 Barney? "
Before you get in too deep Sherlock, you better hit the law library. 10-4 Barney? "
PMP wrote on Nov 5, 2008 5:18 PM:
" Rogue Cop
As easy fix mentioned if your are truly a law enforcement official within any capacity you seem like the person whom would show draconian immaturity within your un- educated training towards folks in this great community. I stand up for the many great officers and behind the scenes employees within the ISP, Kootenai, and Post Falls and CDA agencies whom I have met through out the years. Just because one apple is rouge does not equate to bad agencies of law enforcement personnel.
Namaste "
As easy fix mentioned if your are truly a law enforcement official within any capacity you seem like the person whom would show draconian immaturity within your un- educated training towards folks in this great community. I stand up for the many great officers and behind the scenes employees within the ISP, Kootenai, and Post Falls and CDA agencies whom I have met through out the years. Just because one apple is rouge does not equate to bad agencies of law enforcement personnel.
Namaste "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 4:52 PM:
" "Officers are supposed to investigate circumstances until they're satisfied that there is no criminality."
WRONG!! You just flunked Constitutional Law in Public!
A cop is supposed to have reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed BEFORE they stop someone and start investigating!
I sure hope you are not a cop, because otherwise you just confirmed everyone's worst suspicions about the local cops! "
WRONG!! You just flunked Constitutional Law in Public!
A cop is supposed to have reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed BEFORE they stop someone and start investigating!
I sure hope you are not a cop, because otherwise you just confirmed everyone's worst suspicions about the local cops! "
To DONT BE STUPID wrote on Nov 5, 2008 4:15 PM:
" Well jail bird lover, Here's some other options, Don't commit crimes, If you do we cut your D*m* hands off and then turn you loose without needing any bail. "
Rogue Cop wrote on Nov 5, 2008 4:08 PM:
" PMP:
That was a stupid comment. You criticize the officer for doing his job. Officers are supposed to investigate circumstances until they're satisfied that there is no criminality. Your friend has more sense than you do and handled it with class. "
That was a stupid comment. You criticize the officer for doing his job. Officers are supposed to investigate circumstances until they're satisfied that there is no criminality. Your friend has more sense than you do and handled it with class. "
DONT BE STUPID wrote on Nov 5, 2008 3:55 PM:
" How about stop putting people in jail who shouldn't be there? How about lowering the BONDS so people can bond out faster? There's TONS of options! "
PMP wrote on Nov 5, 2008 3:48 PM:
" Easy Fix
Your story reminds me of a friend whom was stoped inside the Dairy Queen drive in by a CDA police officer sitting across in the vacant bread parking lot. My friend drives a older Dodge D-50 pickup with a color matching tailgate from a Mitsubishi Might Max aka the same model of truck he purchased from Spalding. The office ran his plates and assumed the tailgate was stolen. When he approached my friend in the DQ drive through he was thrown back that the truck was a Dodge D-50 and carried up to date license plates and full liability insurance. My friend whom his a man of morals smiled took it nicely and picked up his blizzard kindly leaving after the incident.
Guess this officer was trying to meet quota... "
Your story reminds me of a friend whom was stoped inside the Dairy Queen drive in by a CDA police officer sitting across in the vacant bread parking lot. My friend drives a older Dodge D-50 pickup with a color matching tailgate from a Mitsubishi Might Max aka the same model of truck he purchased from Spalding. The office ran his plates and assumed the tailgate was stolen. When he approached my friend in the DQ drive through he was thrown back that the truck was a Dodge D-50 and carried up to date license plates and full liability insurance. My friend whom his a man of morals smiled took it nicely and picked up his blizzard kindly leaving after the incident.
Guess this officer was trying to meet quota... "
Easy fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 3:39 PM:
" "the normal bond here is from 25,000.00 to 50,000.00."
And the normal bond for precisely the same crimes in many other Idaho counties range from $5,000 to $10,000. In other counties,the prosecutors don't ask for the insanely-high bonds that are routinely ordered in "Kookie County" (as it is mockingly known across the state) because they would get laughed out of court.
In other parts of Idaho, the presumption of innocense actually means something.
But of course, since we are all so terrified and it makes us feel safer, as soon as the criminal pleads guilty, they immediately get let out of jail.
I feel a lot safer knowing that we need to spend $180 million for a new jail to extract guilty pleas out of people. For that kind of dough, I would actually prefer that the local crazed dope peddlers would just stop by my house now and then and steal one of the old bicycles or snowblowers that I dont need anymore.
The personal safety issue is plain and simple dishonest hysteria. Everyone knows cops around here run your license plates, then manufacture (i.e. "lie") a reason for a traffic stop based upon your prior criminal record. It was extremely interesting when I was driving around in a battered old truck with Washington plates (purchased from a seller with a long criminal record) how often I was pulled over.
Apparently up to six dedicated cops in a day were very concerned that the Ford F150 4x4 lacked the requisite full-width mudflaps necessary to cover the rear differential. Or at least, that was their story upon finding out that I had no criminal record. (Their story would have been a lot more believable had they not approached the my driver's side window with their guns drawn, btw).
I would venture to guess that clearly pretextual stops like I endured on almost a daily basis is the source of about 75 percent of drug busts in Kootenai County.("pretextual," for the layperson means the cop "lied" about why he stopped you)
You can infer that these people weren't committing crimes of violence and crimes of theft when they were arrested, as suggested earlier in this thread. In fact, most of them would never come to the attention of law enforcement in the first place in any other part of Idaho.
Yet when I drive in my brand new SUV, without any license plates at all, complete with exposed differential, I never get stopped! "
And the normal bond for precisely the same crimes in many other Idaho counties range from $5,000 to $10,000. In other counties,the prosecutors don't ask for the insanely-high bonds that are routinely ordered in "Kookie County" (as it is mockingly known across the state) because they would get laughed out of court.
In other parts of Idaho, the presumption of innocense actually means something.
But of course, since we are all so terrified and it makes us feel safer, as soon as the criminal pleads guilty, they immediately get let out of jail.
I feel a lot safer knowing that we need to spend $180 million for a new jail to extract guilty pleas out of people. For that kind of dough, I would actually prefer that the local crazed dope peddlers would just stop by my house now and then and steal one of the old bicycles or snowblowers that I dont need anymore.
The personal safety issue is plain and simple dishonest hysteria. Everyone knows cops around here run your license plates, then manufacture (i.e. "lie") a reason for a traffic stop based upon your prior criminal record. It was extremely interesting when I was driving around in a battered old truck with Washington plates (purchased from a seller with a long criminal record) how often I was pulled over.
Apparently up to six dedicated cops in a day were very concerned that the Ford F150 4x4 lacked the requisite full-width mudflaps necessary to cover the rear differential. Or at least, that was their story upon finding out that I had no criminal record. (Their story would have been a lot more believable had they not approached the my driver's side window with their guns drawn, btw).
I would venture to guess that clearly pretextual stops like I endured on almost a daily basis is the source of about 75 percent of drug busts in Kootenai County.("pretextual," for the layperson means the cop "lied" about why he stopped you)
You can infer that these people weren't committing crimes of violence and crimes of theft when they were arrested, as suggested earlier in this thread. In fact, most of them would never come to the attention of law enforcement in the first place in any other part of Idaho.
Yet when I drive in my brand new SUV, without any license plates at all, complete with exposed differential, I never get stopped! "
I have a spud gun wrote on Nov 5, 2008 3:25 PM:
" I have a spud gun that can knock a hippie off a vespa at 100 yards!
It's tator-tastic. "
It's tator-tastic. "
Sell our Prisoners wrote on Nov 5, 2008 3:23 PM:
" Sell our prisoners to China. Let them stay in forced labor camps and make us cheap shoes! "
I like Rocky wrote on Nov 5, 2008 3:21 PM:
" Anyone that owns and shoots a cannon that uses bowling balls for shot get's my vote. "
hmmmmm wrote on Nov 5, 2008 3:02 PM:
" well as someone that has never been to jail but have know lots that have been there. i can say way to go for stopping a waste of time and money.
the normal bond here is from 25,000.00 to 50,000.00. at 10% or even 15% to get a bail bondmen that is more then most people make in a month. hmmmmm so you think the jails will start leting some people out of jail that really dont need to be there?
and to all that voted yes to rocky way to go there. thing idaho needs to do some HOMEWORK no Mr rocky...... "
the normal bond here is from 25,000.00 to 50,000.00. at 10% or even 15% to get a bail bondmen that is more then most people make in a month. hmmmmm so you think the jails will start leting some people out of jail that really dont need to be there?
and to all that voted yes to rocky way to go there. thing idaho needs to do some HOMEWORK no Mr rocky...... "
ben wrote on Nov 5, 2008 2:30 PM:
" no,we don't need a bigger jail.let them sleep in shifts if need be.they can work 12 hours and sleep 12. "
not sure wrote on Nov 5, 2008 1:52 PM:
" How legit this whole voting system is anymore. We all have seen the proof of voter fraud w/ Acorn and the presidential elections, just what makes anyone think the local candidates are playing fair and square? Its mighty suspicious that the jail expaaansion fails with a landslide, but those that pushed for it get re-elected? I just dont think people are that dumb. Also Greguire made gov again in Washington? Did those same dead people and felons that voted for her last time get to vote again? How many times? "
John H. wrote on Nov 5, 2008 1:04 PM:
" TO: Deputy ...
ignore that suggestion from Rocky-in-disguise!
What you said is absolutely the truth. I know for fact that the turn-over at the Sheriff department is probably one of the highest in the nation.
Rocky has alot of connections and strings throughout the community, plus throw in the "I'm scare of the dark!" crowd, not to mention the voter whom can barely add 2+2, and their you have it - Rocky wins again!
Go for it, and if you need help let me know!
The Frugal-Dude
(who BTW is sick of the corruption throughout our county) "
ignore that suggestion from Rocky-in-disguise!
What you said is absolutely the truth. I know for fact that the turn-over at the Sheriff department is probably one of the highest in the nation.
Rocky has alot of connections and strings throughout the community, plus throw in the "I'm scare of the dark!" crowd, not to mention the voter whom can barely add 2+2, and their you have it - Rocky wins again!
Go for it, and if you need help let me know!
The Frugal-Dude
(who BTW is sick of the corruption throughout our county) "
To John H. wrote on Nov 5, 2008 1:03 PM:
" I like your way of thinking and I live in the country too, I keep my 10ga. fully loaded and by the door and my 500 S&W fully loaded on the night stand.
I would much rather pay for my ammo than to have my taxes go up. "
I would much rather pay for my ammo than to have my taxes go up. "
John H. wrote on Nov 5, 2008 12:56 PM:
" TO: GOOD LUCK ...
Why don't you take a proactive role in defending yourself rather than whining about the need for more public servants to protect you from the bogey man?
We live out here in rural county, response time ... probably 30 min. or more depending upon deputy workload ... which is fine by us! We don't whine, we just want the coroner and sheriff out here before the perp starts to stink!
If you're that scared, there are whole house security systems with Brinks promising to call within 20 seconds of an alarm (at least that's what the commercials claim). And then their are private security services available.
But, don't expect me to pay outrageous bills so you can feel secure in the dark!
Thank You ...
The 'Frugal-Dude' "
Why don't you take a proactive role in defending yourself rather than whining about the need for more public servants to protect you from the bogey man?
We live out here in rural county, response time ... probably 30 min. or more depending upon deputy workload ... which is fine by us! We don't whine, we just want the coroner and sheriff out here before the perp starts to stink!
If you're that scared, there are whole house security systems with Brinks promising to call within 20 seconds of an alarm (at least that's what the commercials claim). And then their are private security services available.
But, don't expect me to pay outrageous bills so you can feel secure in the dark!
Thank You ...
The 'Frugal-Dude' "
To Whip them wrote on Nov 5, 2008 12:50 PM:
" Right on and if they get arrested again for a voilent offence hangem in public.
They would rather tax us and make us pay for criminals...such a deal "
They would rather tax us and make us pay for criminals...such a deal "
to deputy wrote on Nov 5, 2008 12:46 PM:
" The public supported Rockey by 75%, so you need to quit your whining and just $uck it up. If you don't like it, feel free to quit and don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out, ok? "
J. Anderson wrote on Nov 5, 2008 12:41 PM:
" Deputy,PLEASE do run - thats what we need, a good cantidate who will put in an effort and move this place forward. Wish you would have ran this time around! Something tells me you'd have the suppport of the rank and file. "
Whip them wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:48 AM:
" I posted before, instead of jail time (not the hardened criminal) Whip their assssssss in public. The pain and embarrassment would deter crime. Televise it and we could make money for the county. Do it every third Saturday of the month. Our Jail would not be as full and we could make money doing it. "
DH wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:45 AM:
" I spent 5 1/2 years with the KCSD and moved to Colorado. I saw first hand how a community like Castle Rock was able to build a detention facility that would rival that of the one in Ada county. I don't believe taxation is the answer to building a bigger facility. The real answer is being able to budget for it. Our comissioners obviously do not have financial saavy to accomplish that. They rely on $35,000 feasibility studies for their justifications in planning. Whatever happened to the old fashioned method of picking up a phone and calling some municipalities elsewhere for information on their detention facilities? I guess our comishes are too busy. Too much money is being wasted by the county. With all the new development in recent years I find it suspicious that no funds were set aside for a new jail. The building permits and current property taxes surely would have been sufficient. "
Good Luck... wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:30 AM:
" To: Easy Fix
OK, increase Denny's wait staff and pay off the only three violent offenders in KC. Great job thus far....can you tackle this one?
"To all those who feel drug peddlers and wife beaters shouldn't be locked up, where do you draw the line? When your loved ones get killed by an illegal, drunk, or suspended driver, remember what you're saying here. How many times must a suspended driver be cited before he/she's incarcerated? Many of the people in jail who had misdemeanor warrants went because they haven't paid their fines or skipped out on court. Citing and releasing isn't always the right idea."
Your solution? "
OK, increase Denny's wait staff and pay off the only three violent offenders in KC. Great job thus far....can you tackle this one?
"To all those who feel drug peddlers and wife beaters shouldn't be locked up, where do you draw the line? When your loved ones get killed by an illegal, drunk, or suspended driver, remember what you're saying here. How many times must a suspended driver be cited before he/she's incarcerated? Many of the people in jail who had misdemeanor warrants went because they haven't paid their fines or skipped out on court. Citing and releasing isn't always the right idea."
Your solution? "
To Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:28 AM:
" Sales tax is for everyone, including non-property owners, tourists etc. So Genius think. Your 500.00 in extra sales tax means you would spend $100,000.00 a year. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:23 AM:
" "Those who live in outlying areas may have to be patient as they're being assaulted with a knife or hatchet."
That happens, what, two or three times a year in Kootenai County? For $144 million, you could take those three nasty defendants, pay them each $10 million to leave Kootenai County permanently, and still save $134 million.
There are far more people in jail for holding an open can of beer on a street corner than there are hatchet slashers.
I have lived in an isolated "outlying area" for four years, populated by several hundred people. During that period of time, I have never heard of, nor has anybody else ever heard of, someone being terrorized with an hatchet. And yet, the number of times I have seen a cop patrolling in the area can be counted on one hand. I have never seen anybody arrested in a several mile radius where I live.
BTW, speaking of hatchet slashers in remote areas, it sure is a good thing that Joseph Duncan voluntarily turned himself in, since it is highly unlikely he would have ever been caught by the local police. The teenage waitress at Denny's has apprehended more hatchet slashers than most local cops.
"Having 30% of the jail paid for by tourists might have been the best approach to the problem."
You could also arrest 30% fewer tourists and completely eliminate the need for an expansion. "
That happens, what, two or three times a year in Kootenai County? For $144 million, you could take those three nasty defendants, pay them each $10 million to leave Kootenai County permanently, and still save $134 million.
There are far more people in jail for holding an open can of beer on a street corner than there are hatchet slashers.
I have lived in an isolated "outlying area" for four years, populated by several hundred people. During that period of time, I have never heard of, nor has anybody else ever heard of, someone being terrorized with an hatchet. And yet, the number of times I have seen a cop patrolling in the area can be counted on one hand. I have never seen anybody arrested in a several mile radius where I live.
BTW, speaking of hatchet slashers in remote areas, it sure is a good thing that Joseph Duncan voluntarily turned himself in, since it is highly unlikely he would have ever been caught by the local police. The teenage waitress at Denny's has apprehended more hatchet slashers than most local cops.
"Having 30% of the jail paid for by tourists might have been the best approach to the problem."
You could also arrest 30% fewer tourists and completely eliminate the need for an expansion. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:09 AM:
" "this would have been the most economically viable option for this expansion."
That's true. However, the best idea and the most economically viable option is not to have a jail expansion - AT ALL.
The jail as it is now - "outdated, too small, inadequate" - is the best and only bulwark in Kootenai County against an ravenous, all-encroaching Police State.
Feeding $144 million ($144 Million!!!!) into the maw of this crazed, out-of-control, self-serving beast would not even begin to slake its addicted appetite.
Had the ballot had the honest actual cost with interest, Um .... that would be $180 million or more; and the costs of additional staff, which is many many millions; this turkey would have been kicked into oblivion by 80 or 90 percent of the vote instead of just 65 percent.
Oh, and GOOD ONE! The 1/2 cent sales tax went down in flames, even though it was disingenuously labelled as "property tax relief." Gosh, that would have made me feel better, paying $500 more a year in sales tax rather than $500 more in property tax. A sales tax, after all, you hardly notice, whereas the bi-yearly property tax when due is like passing a great big huge kidney stone.
Dear Genius: If I pay $500 in extra sales tax or $500 in extra property taxes, I am down approximately $500 either way, correct? That is NOT "tax relief," idiot! "
That's true. However, the best idea and the most economically viable option is not to have a jail expansion - AT ALL.
The jail as it is now - "outdated, too small, inadequate" - is the best and only bulwark in Kootenai County against an ravenous, all-encroaching Police State.
Feeding $144 million ($144 Million!!!!) into the maw of this crazed, out-of-control, self-serving beast would not even begin to slake its addicted appetite.
Had the ballot had the honest actual cost with interest, Um .... that would be $180 million or more; and the costs of additional staff, which is many many millions; this turkey would have been kicked into oblivion by 80 or 90 percent of the vote instead of just 65 percent.
Oh, and GOOD ONE! The 1/2 cent sales tax went down in flames, even though it was disingenuously labelled as "property tax relief." Gosh, that would have made me feel better, paying $500 more a year in sales tax rather than $500 more in property tax. A sales tax, after all, you hardly notice, whereas the bi-yearly property tax when due is like passing a great big huge kidney stone.
Dear Genius: If I pay $500 in extra sales tax or $500 in extra property taxes, I am down approximately $500 either way, correct? That is NOT "tax relief," idiot! "
Good Luck... wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:08 AM:
" Having 30% of the jail paid for by tourists might have been the best approach to the problem.
For those of you who think we have "too much" law enforcement...don't complain when response times don't improve. Those who live in outlying areas may have to be patient as they're being assaulted with a knife or hatchet. Some one already mentioned that no one cares until the problem shows up in their neighborhood....
To all those who feel drug peddlers and wife beaters shouldn't be locked up, where do you draw the line? When your loved ones get killed by an illegal, drunk, or suspended driver, remember what you're saying here. How many times must a suspended driver be cited before he/she's incarcerated? Many of the people in jail who had misdemeanor warrants went because they haven't paid their fines or skipped out on court. Citing and releasing isn't always the right idea.
Don't sit here and whine in the safety of your home, petition the state for funds. Petition YOUR elected Commissioners for solutions to their/our problems. "
For those of you who think we have "too much" law enforcement...don't complain when response times don't improve. Those who live in outlying areas may have to be patient as they're being assaulted with a knife or hatchet. Some one already mentioned that no one cares until the problem shows up in their neighborhood....
To all those who feel drug peddlers and wife beaters shouldn't be locked up, where do you draw the line? When your loved ones get killed by an illegal, drunk, or suspended driver, remember what you're saying here. How many times must a suspended driver be cited before he/she's incarcerated? Many of the people in jail who had misdemeanor warrants went because they haven't paid their fines or skipped out on court. Citing and releasing isn't always the right idea.
Don't sit here and whine in the safety of your home, petition the state for funds. Petition YOUR elected Commissioners for solutions to their/our problems. "
To PF GUY wrote on Nov 5, 2008 10:22 AM:
" They all failed, Think they will get the message that we are sick of the Kootenai County taxes.
Bring it on and we vote it down again. "
Bring it on and we vote it down again. "
To Todd Tondee wrote on Nov 5, 2008 10:18 AM:
" Sounds like you need to get over yourself and for darn sure you better leave our property taxes alone since that would take a vote also...What a scum ball.
Voting this down showed we are sick of the counties taxation and if they try it again we will vote it down again.
Think about it, They just built a new jail in 2005 and want another one in 2008,,,I would like to know who the H*** is pocketing all this tax money. "
Voting this down showed we are sick of the counties taxation and if they try it again we will vote it down again.
Think about it, They just built a new jail in 2005 and want another one in 2008,,,I would like to know who the H*** is pocketing all this tax money. "
John H. wrote on Nov 5, 2008 10:07 AM:
" TO: Ridiculous ...
come on ROCKY, use your real name when posting here!
BTW ... hesitate to bring this up so soon after the election, but remember people ... although Rocky and Tondee may have some extra cards they intend to play, WE have the BEST CARD OF ALL:
it's called the RECALL CARD!
The 'Frugal-Dude'
ps hahahahahaha ... me too Criminal! "
come on ROCKY, use your real name when posting here!
BTW ... hesitate to bring this up so soon after the election, but remember people ... although Rocky and Tondee may have some extra cards they intend to play, WE have the BEST CARD OF ALL:
it's called the RECALL CARD!
The 'Frugal-Dude'
ps hahahahahaha ... me too Criminal! "
to ridiculous wrote on Nov 5, 2008 10:06 AM:
" All who voted no are smart enough to see through the smoke and mirrors.
This scam would cost way too much money, and isnt even needed in first place if our legal system worked the way its suppose to. "
This scam would cost way too much money, and isnt even needed in first place if our legal system worked the way its suppose to. "
Ridiculous wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:46 AM:
" It's ridiculous that this didn't pass - this would have been the most economically viable option for this expansion. I guess all who voted "no" want to see it paid for via their property taxes. Nice work idiots. "
Joe wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:38 AM:
" The county budget for 2008 is a hair under $70,000,000. The state budget for 2008 is $3,163,400,000. The government has the money. What our government needs to do is prioritize. Which is more important? If all the programs the county and state are already blowing billions of dollars on are more important than the jail/facilities expansion, then the jail will just have to stay like it is. If the jail/facilities expansion is more important than any existing program or programs, then cut those programs and build the jail. All of us taxpayers must decide from month to month how to spend the limited amount of money we have in the manner that is best for our families. There are a lot of things I would like to do that I can't afford to, so I spend my money on the most important things and the rest just has to wait. The government needs to do the same, rather than demanding more money and threatening property seizure and/or imprisonment if we fail to pay (that, after all, is what taxes are all about). This, I believe, is what the voters are trying to tell Kootenai County. "
Alternative wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:21 AM:
" Why can't I post a dang link on this forum? I will try to make it so ya'll can get to the news story if you can decipher the web address.
cnn dot com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/
Oh but let me guess, it's too tough on the criminals and violates their civil rights. Whaaaa. Cheap alternative and I bet Cableas will give them a government discount on the tents and cots. "
cnn dot com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/
Oh but let me guess, it's too tough on the criminals and violates their civil rights. Whaaaa. Cheap alternative and I bet Cableas will give them a government discount on the tents and cots. "
Easy fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:21 AM:
" If they pass a property tax increase to fund Rocky's wet dream Gulag Archipelego fantasy, then it is obvious the taxpayers can and will easily revolt by passing an initiative to reverse them.
In addition, lots of communities are rudely taking these matters away from law enforcement, all across the country. Many localities have passed initiatives wherein the taxpayers dictate law enforcement priorities. Many communities have ordered law enforcemnt to make enforcing marijuana laws their lowest priority. Many counties in Idaho do not require driving without a license defendants to appear in court, they just pay their fine at the window, and never get arrested in the first place
You can talk about "alternatives to jail" until you are blue in the face, but nobody is going to seriously examine those alternatives until they are forced to.
Rocky just got forced to. "
In addition, lots of communities are rudely taking these matters away from law enforcement, all across the country. Many localities have passed initiatives wherein the taxpayers dictate law enforcement priorities. Many communities have ordered law enforcemnt to make enforcing marijuana laws their lowest priority. Many counties in Idaho do not require driving without a license defendants to appear in court, they just pay their fine at the window, and never get arrested in the first place
You can talk about "alternatives to jail" until you are blue in the face, but nobody is going to seriously examine those alternatives until they are forced to.
Rocky just got forced to. "
The voters are confused wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:07 AM:
" The voters overwhelmingly voted against the jail expansion, yet re-elected the local officials who keep pushing for it. Get a clue people, they will just look for another way to make us pay for their pet projects. "
John H. wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:05 AM:
" TO: NEWS FLASH whom wrote:
"As stated early in the process, if we did not pass the sales tax increase, they would just raise property tax. Thank all of you for wanting to pay more property tax."
Don't blame those whom voted NO on these Props ... blame those that VOTED 'YES' TO KEEP THIS IMBECILES [Rocky & Tondee] in office! Their the ones that will go after your pocket book in the form of higher property taxes to build their shrine and enhance their resumes! Voters be damned!
Remember - WE NOW HAVE THE GOVERNMENT WE DESERVE!
The 'Fugal-Dude' "
"As stated early in the process, if we did not pass the sales tax increase, they would just raise property tax. Thank all of you for wanting to pay more property tax."
Don't blame those whom voted NO on these Props ... blame those that VOTED 'YES' TO KEEP THIS IMBECILES [Rocky & Tondee] in office! Their the ones that will go after your pocket book in the form of higher property taxes to build their shrine and enhance their resumes! Voters be damned!
Remember - WE NOW HAVE THE GOVERNMENT WE DESERVE!
The 'Fugal-Dude' "
News Flash wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:52 AM:
" As stated early in the process, if we did not pass the sales tax increase, they would just raise property tax. Thank all of you for wanting to pay more property tax. As a home owner, I would have rather had it paid for by all of the tourists through sales tax. I forget however, that a high number if North Idaho residents are rentors, not owners, so why would they give a crap about homeowners. The county has already started some of these projects, and they are not going to stop because the sales tax didn't pass. "
jno wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:43 AM:
" Agree with Pat, and put them to work on the roads, revolving shifts. That would solve the overcrowding and ease the road repair budgets. Ball and chain, pit toilets, stale food, I know I wouldn't want to be there! "
Pat wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:29 AM:
" $145,000,000? I got a better idea. Why not put up a couple of pole buildings with dirt floors and pit toilets. We could feed em McDonalds dollar meals and stale donuts. Conditions would be so bad that we would have very few repeat offenders. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:21 AM:
" THe Kootenai County Police State just got cut off at the knees, in public. That appears to be the only reasonable counterweight.
The stark truth is that Kootenai County has far more police and police activity than it can afford. The taxpayers know it.
The tit just ran dry.
Look at what happened in Spokane when it was publicly revealed that huge numbers of people arrested for so-called "felonies" (mainly non-violent drug possession charges), yet had their charges immediately dismissed and they were released without bail.
There was no public outcry!
That strongly indicates that all this feverish beehive of police activity does not materially benefit the public, and the public well knows it. "
The stark truth is that Kootenai County has far more police and police activity than it can afford. The taxpayers know it.
The tit just ran dry.
Look at what happened in Spokane when it was publicly revealed that huge numbers of people arrested for so-called "felonies" (mainly non-violent drug possession charges), yet had their charges immediately dismissed and they were released without bail.
There was no public outcry!
That strongly indicates that all this feverish beehive of police activity does not materially benefit the public, and the public well knows it. "
Justin wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:57 AM:
" Good job voters!! We need to stop this prison industrial complex in it's tracks. We need to stop making every little thing against the law. Most people are in prison for drugs that the government ships in and then busts us for. The US incarcerates more people than anyone in the world, even more than China or Russia or any other dictatorship and that is sad. And people think we are so free to do what we want. This country is a cesspit of corruption and greed. Only the spirit of our founding fathers will bring real change. Not being a McCainoid or an Obamabot. "
John H. wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:54 AM:
" TO: CITIZEN, whom wrote:
"Maybe the people who voted against the jail but for the same old officials who are now threatening to use your property taxes to build a jail should have made better choices."
OMG, I was thinking the very same thing! These two [Tondee & Rocky] are so bent on having their way on this issue, nothing would surprise me ... not even MUCH HIGHER TAXES in the future!
But, like the saying goes:
YOU ALWAYS GET THE GOVERNMENT YOU DESERVE!
Oh well, heading back to my room at Happy Gardens Insane-Asylum - the only place life makes any sense!
The 'Frugal-Dude' "
"Maybe the people who voted against the jail but for the same old officials who are now threatening to use your property taxes to build a jail should have made better choices."
OMG, I was thinking the very same thing! These two [Tondee & Rocky] are so bent on having their way on this issue, nothing would surprise me ... not even MUCH HIGHER TAXES in the future!
But, like the saying goes:
YOU ALWAYS GET THE GOVERNMENT YOU DESERVE!
Oh well, heading back to my room at Happy Gardens Insane-Asylum - the only place life makes any sense!
The 'Frugal-Dude' "
Bill Larson wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:48 AM:
" Once again the Politicians in Kootenai County do not realize that the residents of Kootenai are fed up with HIGHER TAXES!!!!
It is reaching the point where many Natives are unable to pay their taxes and have enough money to stay in their homes!!!!!
Kootenai County does not have any Living Wage jobs left, all the sawmills are gone, logging is on hard times, and all of the new jobs are minimum wage service sector jobs. You can not afford to buy a house and pay these HIGH taxes on minimum wage jobs. I know of many long time CDA residents who are on the verge of losing their homes because of the HIGH TAXES!!!!!!! I have relatives that currently pay more in taxes on their homes than their mortgage payment.
The Kootenai Politicians should start to attrack REAL JOBS, and Do a better Job of Managing TAX DOLLARS.
TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX, and More TAXES are all they know how to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill "
It is reaching the point where many Natives are unable to pay their taxes and have enough money to stay in their homes!!!!!
Kootenai County does not have any Living Wage jobs left, all the sawmills are gone, logging is on hard times, and all of the new jobs are minimum wage service sector jobs. You can not afford to buy a house and pay these HIGH taxes on minimum wage jobs. I know of many long time CDA residents who are on the verge of losing their homes because of the HIGH TAXES!!!!!!! I have relatives that currently pay more in taxes on their homes than their mortgage payment.
The Kootenai Politicians should start to attrack REAL JOBS, and Do a better Job of Managing TAX DOLLARS.
TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX, and More TAXES are all they know how to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill "
Selling My Log Cabin II wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:42 AM:
" Tondee said they will look at using property taxes to pay for a jail expansion.
Maybe now the people out in the county will start paying closer attention to the affect Corrupt d'Alene's urban renewal agency, the Lake City Development Corporation, has on our property taxes. Our property taxes are going up to make up for what the LCDC skims off for its political patronage projects inside Corrupt d'Alene. Even if we live outside Corrupt d'Alene, our property taxes are higher because of the LCDC. "
Maybe now the people out in the county will start paying closer attention to the affect Corrupt d'Alene's urban renewal agency, the Lake City Development Corporation, has on our property taxes. Our property taxes are going up to make up for what the LCDC skims off for its political patronage projects inside Corrupt d'Alene. Even if we live outside Corrupt d'Alene, our property taxes are higher because of the LCDC. "
Shootem wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:40 AM:
" Save jail space Rocky and have your deputies start shooting some of these idiots! "
easy fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:29 AM:
" THe truth is that the rate of both property crimes and crimes of violence are on a very steep and irreversible decline in Idaho and Kootenai County. Panicked Law enforcement therefore has hysterically siezed upon the hobgoblin of drugs, intuitively sensing that their jobs are in real danger.
Here is the truth about the Kootenai County bail scandal: People get arrested for drug offenses and other petty non-violent crimes, and while they still have the presumption of innocence, the Prosecutor asks for and gets ridiculously high bail. Yet as soon as the defendant is squeezed by that high bail and pleads guilty to the offense, thereby removing all reasonable doubt that they in fact committed the crime, they are routinely released on their own recognizance.
THe penalty for believing that you are innocent and putting up a fight to prove your innocense is months and months in jail. In Kootenai County, the guilty go free and the innocent languish in jail "
Here is the truth about the Kootenai County bail scandal: People get arrested for drug offenses and other petty non-violent crimes, and while they still have the presumption of innocence, the Prosecutor asks for and gets ridiculously high bail. Yet as soon as the defendant is squeezed by that high bail and pleads guilty to the offense, thereby removing all reasonable doubt that they in fact committed the crime, they are routinely released on their own recognizance.
THe penalty for believing that you are innocent and putting up a fight to prove your innocense is months and months in jail. In Kootenai County, the guilty go free and the innocent languish in jail "
citizen wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:21 AM:
" Maybe the people who voted against the jail but for the same old officials who are now threatening to use your property taxes to build a jail should have made better choices. "
What about wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:20 AM:
" What about the vehicle registration increase? I don't see where that passed or not? Anyone know? "
juror wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:17 AM:
" Illegal activity should be taken care of, no arguement there. The problem I have seen is people are being arrested and charged with illegal activity when none really occured.
In my opinion there are a few "catch all" crimes that basically require no proof or evidence to prosecute someone and trap them in the system, creating revenue. This revenue is the reason our legal system is corrupt and our jails are full.
Domestic disputes, sex crimes, and assault. Just tell a cop someone did one of these things and that someones life will be ruined. No proof required if a jury of mad mothers is picked. "
In my opinion there are a few "catch all" crimes that basically require no proof or evidence to prosecute someone and trap them in the system, creating revenue. This revenue is the reason our legal system is corrupt and our jails are full.
Domestic disputes, sex crimes, and assault. Just tell a cop someone did one of these things and that someones life will be ruined. No proof required if a jury of mad mothers is picked. "
Huffer wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:12 AM:
" Why not release misdemeanor drug offenders with a requirement that they submit to drug testing say once a week? Misdemeanor DUI folks take a test for alcohol every day. You fail, you go back to jail.
Those who can afford to pay for the testing pay themselves. Those who can't afford it have the County pay for it. What's more expensive, keeping someone on jail or paying for a pee test?
I saw on the jail list that the County is housing folks arrested on the Reservation. What's up with that? "
Those who can afford to pay for the testing pay themselves. Those who can't afford it have the County pay for it. What's more expensive, keeping someone on jail or paying for a pee test?
I saw on the jail list that the County is housing folks arrested on the Reservation. What's up with that? "
Tired of Crimes wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:01 AM:
" If you lived near a house of drug addicts/users you would call the cops to come and arrest them. Once they are arrested, do you really want to see them back at their house within 24 hours or not be taken to jail. Maybe they knew you were the one that called. NOW YOUR A TARGET. They go home do their drugs and get the courage to harm you. IS THIS THE KIND OF PEOPLE WE WANT WONDERING OUR STREETS. We need to arrest them for breaking the law not for just harming someone. What is they gave drugs to your child or loved one. They you would be wanting to enforce more laws. Get your priorites straight. If you want relaxed laws, you need to find a new place to live.
WE BELIEVE IN THE LAW AND WILL PROSECUTE ANY CRIMINAL TO THE FULLEST EXTENT. "
WE BELIEVE IN THE LAW AND WILL PROSECUTE ANY CRIMINAL TO THE FULLEST EXTENT. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:00 AM:
" State employed Judges set those bonds in outrageously high amounts because a county-paid prosecutor demands and gets them. Oh yes, the County DOES have "control over it," and yes the County Commissioners should make it absolutely clear to those County-paid employees in the prosecutor's office that they are causing an indigestable financial mess and a brewing taxpayer revolt.
Selective Law enforcement? Let the so-called Violent Crimes Task Force, which by its name has apparently been selected to focus selectively on "violent crimes," focus on violent crimes! If there aren't any violent crimes to selectively focus on, then obviously the Task Force should be abolished. THen your savings are two-fold: You dont have to pay for a Task Force with no meaningful work to do, and you don't have to pay for a new jail as a result of the "violent crimes taskforce" seeking to justify its existence.
THe alternative, of course, is for a billion dollar jail expansion just over the horizon. "
Selective Law enforcement? Let the so-called Violent Crimes Task Force, which by its name has apparently been selected to focus selectively on "violent crimes," focus on violent crimes! If there aren't any violent crimes to selectively focus on, then obviously the Task Force should be abolished. THen your savings are two-fold: You dont have to pay for a Task Force with no meaningful work to do, and you don't have to pay for a new jail as a result of the "violent crimes taskforce" seeking to justify its existence.
THe alternative, of course, is for a billion dollar jail expansion just over the horizon. "
SAFETY wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:54 AM:
" If these people are being put in jail for drug possession that is great! A person on drugs will begin to rob, steal or even kill to get their fix. This is not what I moved to Idaho for. Our police are doing their jobs by following the laws and NOT allowing drug addicts to walk the streets and harm others. In California, they do not keep drug possession people in jail and LOOK AT THEIR CRIME RATE. This is not California, this is IDAHO!
IF YOU COMMIT THE CRIME THEN YOU SHOULD DO THE TIME. I know this happens because my brother has been arrested for drug possession in another state and they let him go. Within 24 hours he was stealing and driving under the influence. That is why I do not live in that state. I understand times are tough! When it comes to safety there is never too much you can do to ensure it. "
IF YOU COMMIT THE CRIME THEN YOU SHOULD DO THE TIME. I know this happens because my brother has been arrested for drug possession in another state and they let him go. Within 24 hours he was stealing and driving under the influence. That is why I do not live in that state. I understand times are tough! When it comes to safety there is never too much you can do to ensure it. "
Resident wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:47 AM:
" Hey Rocky- You could use the proceeds from that log house you are selling to finance your jail!!!!! "
T Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:37 AM:
" The state sets the bonds not the County. On Felonies the bond is set by the state employed Judge. Again, the County has no control over it. You are not very educated and that is the problem. Do not bust illegal Marijuana grows. Are you kidding? Selective law enforcement is not OK. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:32 AM:
" Its pretty easy to tell who should be in jail and who shouldn't be in jail. If the crime directly harms another person with violence, or illegal intrusions into another's property or person, then of course the perpetrator should be in jail. Violent crimes, sexual crimes, crimes against property, crimes that actually endanger someone .... there is unanimous agreement that those criminals need to be behind bars.
But the other 99 percent of people in jail shouldn't be there. In fact, the so-called North Idaho Violent Crimes Taskforce has apparently so few actual "violent crimes" to deal with - i.e. it has no real work to do - that it is very frequently involved in petty low-level marijuana busts. THIS IS INSANE! A Task force paid out of public funds to focus on violent crime, yet it spends a great deal of its time on nonviolent ones. Is that Orwellian, or what? DO you suppose that someone busted by the NIVCTF for marijuana is given a ticket with a promise to appear in court or released on their own recognisance? I think not.
Judge Marano regularly threw people in jail for six months or a year for extremely petty crimes. Probably when he leaves office in January, that alone will ease the overcrowding situation.
Hence, the argument for extortionate Dr. Evil-type demands for .... will the next demand be for a Billion Dollar jail? I am overjoyed at the wisdom of Kootenai County taxpayers. "
But the other 99 percent of people in jail shouldn't be there. In fact, the so-called North Idaho Violent Crimes Taskforce has apparently so few actual "violent crimes" to deal with - i.e. it has no real work to do - that it is very frequently involved in petty low-level marijuana busts. THIS IS INSANE! A Task force paid out of public funds to focus on violent crime, yet it spends a great deal of its time on nonviolent ones. Is that Orwellian, or what? DO you suppose that someone busted by the NIVCTF for marijuana is given a ticket with a promise to appear in court or released on their own recognisance? I think not.
Judge Marano regularly threw people in jail for six months or a year for extremely petty crimes. Probably when he leaves office in January, that alone will ease the overcrowding situation.
Hence, the argument for extortionate Dr. Evil-type demands for .... will the next demand be for a Billion Dollar jail? I am overjoyed at the wisdom of Kootenai County taxpayers. "
Terry wrote on Nov 5, 2008 5:55 AM:
" If a 50 million dollar price tag in 2005 failed, what on earth made them think that in THIS Economy...we would spend 145 million for a fancy jail (and Im sure I could get one built one a heck of a lot cheaper)...when many of our residents including children, dont have a roof over their heads. NO.. build cheaper.. functional.. necessities only.. or dont build at all. Biggest problem I saw was that it wasnt 'just for a jail' it was dozens of projects kinda like one of the bills congress tries to pass, padded with lots of lil perks and whistles that were not itemized. If Im going to spend 145 million dollars of someone elses money, you can bet they are gonna want a detailed report of where its going, or are we not smart enough to read it? Are we gullible enough to just sign you a check? Good ole boy days are gone, accountability is in. They should have tacked this into the building fees of all these new houses and not given the builders a gift of not paying any taxes till the houses sold. NOW we are sitting on all this potential tax money that isnt there because the houses are sitting empty in these dozens of new tracts. Some cities require large housing tracts to donate school land and the cost of the building. The infrastructure cannot support all this 'growth'. Its not in our not passing a bill.. its in the county and city governments not spending it or charging enough when they should. Bring back the days of burning praries, at least they didnt drain the Fire Dept, Police Dept, Road Dept, Aquifer, Plows in winter etc etc etc, oh yes, and the Jail.
Fix the underlying issues and stop sticking bandaids over the hole in the dam. Kootenai County residesidents are not stupid. "
Fix the underlying issues and stop sticking bandaids over the hole in the dam. Kootenai County residesidents are not stupid. "
Easy Fix wrote on Nov 5, 2008 5:23 AM:
" Stop putting people in jail for no driver's license. Stop putting people in jail for drug possession charges. Stop Kootenai County's ridiculous habit of outrageously high bail .... It is the laughingstock of the whole state on that issue. Stop the so-called North Idaho Violent Crimes Task Force from focusing on Marijuana busts.
We dont need no new jail. We need an end to the Police State. "
We dont need no new jail. We need an end to the Police State. "
jp wrote on Nov 5, 2008 5:05 AM:
" Todd, when are you going to get it? I suspect you will try again, but with a bigger price tag and bigger project. The public keeps saying no to the price tag, and you keep bringing back a bigger one. Make it reasonable and it will pass. Continue to make it unreasonable and it will not. Pretty simple. "
to free idaho wrote on Nov 5, 2008 4:45 AM:
" Sounds like you are one of those people...there is no such thing as a victimless crime. I am sure you are one of those tree hugging liberals who elect our new president, WAY TO GO!!! "
Ottawa Mike wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:27 AM: