Going to pot? - Coeur d'Alene Press: Local News

Going to pot?

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Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:00 am

Only on occasion do Washington residents show up with pot in North Idaho, said Lt. Stu Miller.

"They bring their marijuana and medical cards, and say, 'I've got a prescription for it,'" said Miller, with the Kootenai County Sheriff's Department. "And we say, 'Idaho doesn't recognize that at all,' and we seize that as well as anything else they might have."

But such instances might be more common next year, some law enforcement officials fear, thanks to the recent marijuana referendum passed across the state line.

"Lots of them," Miller said when asked if he has concerns.

With Washington already allowing medical marijuana, state residents voted last week to take a toke to satisfy any other needs.

That is, this November election saw Washington and Colorado become the first two states to legalize recreational use of marijuana.

Under Washington's measure, people 21 and older are allowed personal possession of up to an ounce of marijuana. Cannabis will be sold and taxed at retail outlets regulated by the Washington State Liquor Control Board.

Growing pot and public use are still verboten.

While this is a great step for stoners, there remains the question of the impact on North Idaho.

Some worry more tourists will be crossing the nearby border to experience relaxation on a whole new level.

"It's going to impact both states, probably pretty significantly," Miller said.

He sees many implications for North Idaho, he said. Like more incidents of Washington residents driving across the border high, or ferrying their personal pot into Kootenai County.

"Washington residents, especially from Spokane and Eastern Washington, come to Idaho a ton to recreate," Miller said.

Visitors carrying weed into Idaho would give rise to other issues, he added, like more influenced behavior, higher prevalence of a gateway drug, more need for law enforcement presence.

Miller couldn't predict if many Idaho residents will venture into Washington to procure pot.

"All these regulations still have yet to be written," he said, noting that Washington has until December 2013 to establish the law's procedures. "You'll probably have to show some sort of state residency (to buy weed), but these are all speculations."

While Miller said border watches are unlikely, the department might crack down in other ways.

"We obviously have some planning to do," he said. "We'll need to make sure we're up to speed on all the regulations and rules for Washington, because we're so close."

Dep. Mark Gregory with the Spokane County Sheriff's Office said his agency also has much to analyze about the new law's effects.

"We're concerned about the whole situation," Gregory said. "We don't want to see anybody get hurt, and the concern of driving intoxicated or high, whether on alcohol or marijuana or anything else, is a great concern of ours."

So many questions still remain, he said. Especially over the fact that marijuana is still illegal under federal law.

"I know there's tons of meetings going on throughout the state over this," Gregory said. "We're looking at all of our options at this point."

Kootenai County Prosecutor Barry McHugh doesn't expect North Idaho courts will be notably impacted by the new law.

"I think we'll have maybe a slight increase in cases, just because people will either inadvertently or intentionally cross over while in possession, and may get caught," McHugh said. "I think the great majority of people will understand that while it may be legal in Washington, it is not in Idaho."

In Idaho, possession of less than 3 ounces of weed is a misdemeanor, penalized by up to a 1-year jail sentence or up to $1,000 fine. More than 3 ounces means a felony penalty of up to five years in jail, or up to a $10,000 fine.

Spokespeople for the Coeur d'Alene Police and Idaho State Police said their agencies aren't making predictions at this time over the new law.

They will continue to enforce the law as usual, the officials said.

"Being pinched in between two medical marijuana states, Montana and Washington, it's already been an issue with us," said ISP Commander Curtis Kastens.

Miller expects one demographic will definitely experience changes from the law, though.

Children.

"That will be a bigger issue than anything, the accessibility kids will have," Miller said.

He expects that where kids once sneaked into their parents' liquor cabinets, now they'll be reaching for their parents' legalized stash.

"I think now you're going to see where parents that have legal marijuana are going to be supplying to their kids," he said, pointing to home parties he has seen where parents give their children alcohol. "Kids from Idaho and kids from Washington all end up at some of the same gatherings."

But Scot Haug, Post Falls Police chief, anticipates it will take a year to see how the law really plays out.

"My first reaction is, if it is legal in Washington, it's probably going to result in additional possession of it as people come over here," Haug said. "There's going to be a learning curve. I think people will push the envelope a little bit."

The department isn't making special preparations at this point, he said.

"To me, it's business as normal," Haug said. "Our priorities are still our priorities."

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131 comments:

  • chouli posted at 5:28 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1283

    vandalguy, when you use terms such as "pushers" in referring to marajuana, you announce to the rest of the commenters that you are very out of touch with the reality of marajuana use and facts. there are no so called "pushers".
    I pick and choose what laws I consider to be just and logical. Do you ever speed, you law breaking criminal...LOL The older I become the more I see our society being very much on the wrong path.
    Drug addiction is not something that should be treated like a crime but should be treated as an illness. Take a look at how the rest of the world treats drug addiction and then look at our system. Pretty sad. We like to imprison peole...especially the poor and the minorities. Shameful.
    Do some research on marajuana and you would see that it is far less dangerous than alcohol is. Time to legalize it and regulate it. There ya go.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 9:49 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    "Next goal, become the first person to enjoy legal marijuana while watching "Atlas Shrugged" synced with "Dark Side of the Moon" - I love being an American!"

    I LOVE it! :-)

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 6:23 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    "GM is actually really bright under all of the "social issues" he has..."

    It's called caring in places that aren't under the influence of the Right Wing. I believe that there is a way to make money and take of each other.

    In fact, I've proved it in my personal utopia (small business).

    Next goal, become the first person to enjoy legal marijuana while watching "Atlas Shrugged" synced with "Dark Side of the Moon" - I love being an American!

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 11:56 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Thanks for that link; Judge Jim Gray is one of my heroes :-). Met him in Spokane last month when he spoke there. One that truly 'gets it' and understands the concept of individual liberty and personal responsibility.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 11:52 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    The mistake you are making in this argument is assuming that because something is illegal it is necessarily wrong (a crime). They are not the same thing. If what you are doing is harmful to another person or their property, then it is a crime. If what you are doing is NOT harmful to another person or their property, it is not a crime, but may still be illegal. "Legal" vs. "Illegal" are not necessarily the same as "right" vs. "wrong".

    Someone who breaks a law is a lawbreaker but not necessarily a criminal. Conversely someone who does harm to another or their property may not be breaking a law, but is still very much a criminal.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 9:12 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    To me it is very sad indeed that there are SO many people among us who truly don't understand the concept of LIBERTY.

    It is a beautiful idea, but also a scary one in many ways, because to have, exercise, and keep liberty we also have to have personal RESPONSIBILITY for the consequences of our actions. I think that is the part that scares people.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 9:09 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    You keep talking about "Pot Addicts" but you have yet to present ANY evidence, much less proof, that there is any such thing as a 'pot addict'.

    There are those addicted to tobacco, and alcohol, and yes there are people addicted to dangerous drugs such as heroin or methamphetamine, but I have NEVER heard of anyone addicted to marijuana, nor is there any evidence that marijuana use leads to any of these other drugs that truly are dangerous.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 3:56 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    When it comes to breaking laws, yes my dear it is everyone's right. People are not allowed to pick and choose which laws they will follow and which they won't. If they do so and finally get caught they deserve to go jail because they are criminals. That is the very definition of the law. And keeping our society safe and clean is everyone who lives in that society's right and business.

    And you may be right, we may not be end up with a drug free society. But we will never truly know unless we keep trying to make it happen. And I am sorry you think removing the demand for pot is not the answer, but anyone with some understanding of how such things work would understand. If no one used the junk then no matter the price the pushers priced it at, it would be worthless and a worthless product stop getting produced.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 3:49 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    People who have died because of Pot Addicts who won't get clean because they hold a falsely assumed right....

    To many to count.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 10:13 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    Agreed, Michael, GM is actually really bright under all of the "social issues" he has...;-)

    If we could JUST get him to let go of the nonsense, racial, social issues and concentrate on the bigger things, the collapsing dollar, overspending, complete abuse & fraud of every government program we have, and JOBS, well I'd prolly go drinkin with him!

     
  • Michael Alexander posted at 7:29 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    Michael Alexander Posts: 93

    The Golden Mean,

    I do not always agree with you, but you make a wonderful point here!

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 5:28 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    People who have died under the influenced of God = Many
    People who have died from marijuana use = None


    If preserving human life is really the issue, criminalize religion.

     
  • Lindsey Rinehart posted at 4:53 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    Lindsey Rinehart Posts: 2

    Vandal Guy, we are Never going to be able to have a drug free society. Ever. To think that removing users, or supply is practical is just plain ignorance. PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK. People need to be responsible for themselves. What people put in their body is none of your business. Nor is it their business what you do with yours.

     
  • yourneighbor posted at 1:06 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    yourneighbor Posts: 224

    I too am waiting on a answer Kevin. I think Joe,chilada,and yourself might have puzzled these simpled minded people. I like so many others have lost a family member to alcohol. He was a 19 yr old man with nothing but a bright future in front of him.His life was taken at 11 in the morning from a drunk driver. The lady that hit him had just left a bar and at the scene she couldnt even stand up because she was so drunk. Stories like this are way to common yet we live in a country where it is the sociable thing to do. Go out have a drink or two after work impair yourself and hope for the best.I guess what I am getting at is all these nay sayers do not seem to have a problem with this. But lord forbid you start talking about legalization of cannabis and all of a sudden it becomes the GATEWAY drug. I dont know about you but when I was growing up my parents along with everyone else I knew their parents had liquor in the house. So what do you do? Thats right you try it for yourself and BAM you start drinking because it is the cool thing to do , the grown up thing to do. This is the GATEWAY DRUG and yet the proud sponsor of The Super Bowl. I noticed nothing out of the mouth of DENILES or RATIONAL. Why? Well they are probally social drinkers or have a few at home after a day of work.Now lets not forget good old VandalGuy who has no problem spouting off about a subject that shouldnt even be news from behind a screen who wants the Government to tell him when to sit,stand and go to the bathroom. Vandal do you not find it ironic that the same Government in which you want to controll all of us has no problem with alcohol? Like I have seen it many times, it kills more people than ALL OTHERS COMBINED!!!!! People like Vandal need to take a step back and look at the whole picture. To make along story short. Take your efforts and apply them to the real problem at hand Vandal DENILES RATIONALE and all others that want to spend my tax dollars on something so petty as a person smoking a WEED. As Joe said A total of MINIMALLY $35,000 of tax dollars WASTED, and that is just that WASTED.......

     
  • pkatt posted at 12:57 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    pkatt Posts: 3

    Sorry, that link is bad. The judge can be found here now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9If9JjbU8o

     
  • pkatt posted at 12:55 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    pkatt Posts: 3

    Sorry .. new link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9If9JjbU8o

     
  • pkatt posted at 12:52 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    pkatt Posts: 3

    This JUDGE says it better than I ever could http://www.maya12-21-2012.com/2012forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e280e6bae6b518528d1f9af8d4ba73a6&topic=3593.msg15529#msg15529

    But one thing you should consider on top of his excellent response to the drug prohibition is that Idaho is performing illegal dog searches at traffic stops. You are giving up YOUR freedom and OUR freedom in the name of false security and I quite frankly DO NOT APPRECIATE IT. Supreme court says ok, dog search in the time of an averaged stop, when they did it to me.. and found nothing, it took two hours to get that speeding ticket. I bitched, got the ticket dropped 6 months later and about 5 court trips.. yah that was a money maker for the state.. minus about 3k at least.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 11:33 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    Thank you SO MUCH Keven.
    This IS about Liberty, and folks like Vandal have no clue on it, at all. His position is simply that "society" can dictate law to individuals, and that society's rights trump individuals', and he is completely wrong.

    Now, let's take a walk down pot lane:
    Person buys pot from someone
    Smokes some of it
    Gets arrested with what's left
    Reports the "dealer"
    Police arrest the "dealer"
    Dealer uses Court time, and is sent to prison

    So; we spend money:
    Arresting pothead
    Investigating "dealer"
    Arresting dealer
    Publicly defending dealer
    Incarcerating Dealer
    Putting Dealer on Probation

    Altogether, we spend....
    Maybe $150-200.00 on Police Wages & Report Filing on Pothead
    Another $3,000 investigating "dealer"
    Another $8,000 defending and providing court for dealer
    Another $18,000 for six months jail time on dealer
    Another $$4,000 Probating Dealer for 3 years.
    A total of MINIMALLY $35,000 of tax dollars WASTED on a nimrod who was HOPING to make $5K a year on selling pot?

    And best of all, now he's a Felon, so his job prosepcts dive, so we support him MORE throughout the rest of his life.

    Or, we could have just taxed it all the way from grower to smoker, and forgot about the whole thing.
    Net minus into net positive, and Liberty arrives at the same time.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 10:22 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    I missed the context of your comment because I hadn't yet read Joe's comment you were replying to.
    However, my point is still just as valid; you've actually reinforced it:

    No, you don't have to be a rapist or murderer to know those are wrong and are crimes, because those actions harm another person.

    And No, you don't have to be a marijuana user to understand that smoking pot is NOT wrong, and is NOT a crime - - at least not a legitimate crime under natural law - - because the pot smoker's action does NOT harm another person.

    It really is that simple. No victim = No crime.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 10:11 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    "The world will only be better off when there are no users for the drug cartels to supply "


    If possession of this simple plant, or it's flower, were not against the law, there would BE no drug cartels smuggling it and killing people!

    Vandal you may have seen people in your family that used pot, but I seriously doubt they were 'addicted'. I'm very skeptical that pot is addictive for anyone, but I will concede that I only have anecdotal evidence for that. But in my own circle of friends and acquaintances which include people who use tobacco, alcohol, and cannabis (and sometimes all three) I've known many people addicted to tobacco and alcohol but never have I known anyone addicted to cannabis. Now before you say it affects different people in different ways, I agree. Some can drink alcohol occasionally and never be addicted, while some people become addicted. So I'll stop short of saying that it is impossible for someone to become addicted to cannabis, but I will say without a doubt that a cannabis user is far far less likely to become addicted than a user of tobacco or alcohol.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 10:01 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Vandal, you keep saying this thread is about marijuana, and not alcohol or tobacco. Actually it is not about marijuana either. It is about INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY. If we are truly free men and women who own our own bodies, then we have the right to decide what we eat, drink, or smoke. One doesn't have to condone or endorse a particular behavior to defend the right to make our own choices. The following excerpt from a speech given just last Wednesday says it much better than I ever could:

    “Everyone claims support for freedom. But too often it’s for one’s own freedom and not for others. Too many believe that there must be limits on freedom. They argue that freedom must be directed and managed to achieve fairness and equality thus making it acceptable to curtail, through force, certain liberties.
    Some decide what and whose freedoms are to be limited. These are the politicians whose goal in life is power. Their success depends on gaining support from special interests.”

    If anyone doesn't recognize that quote, it's from Dr. Ron Paul's farewell speech to congress. The whole speech is outstanding but this particular passage pertained to our discussion here. How is it we all want to be free, but want to limit the freedom of others? Applied specifically to marijuana use, the answer is simple. It is an issue of freedom of choice and individual liberty. If one is not harming another in any way, then no crime is being committed.

     
  • chilada01 posted at 9:46 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    chilada01 Posts: 180

    OK let me make one thing clear "But Chilada, I am getting the point and its a failed point to try to make. So what if you and millions of other drug users don't think their drugs are so bad" Who the Hel! said I was a drug user? I am just a TAX PAYING American who is sick and tired of his tax dollars being wasted on locking someone up for smoking a WEED that grows anywhere. I know a few people including some pretty well known pillars who smoke it and are far from being classified as crimanals. Pick your battles that can be won,stoping people from smoking pot is not one of them. It did't work with alcohol and it sure isnt going work with pot....... So accusing me of being a drug user without even knowing who I am makes you look like a IDIOT Remember you dont know me so please do not act as if you do.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 9:16 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    Alcohol is bad, it ruins lives. Re tried to curtail it the governments screwed up and gave in to the addicts. Now we are still trying to help as many people as possible keep clear of it, get clean of it and put their lives back together.

    But Chilada, I am getting the point and its a failed point to try to make. So what if you and millions of other drug users don't think their drugs are so bad. The POINT here is legalizing pot. This has nothing to do with alcohol no matter how bad it is, tobacco no matter how bad that is. We have enough bad stuff already continuing to cause problems and kill people directly or indirectly. It would be HYPOCRITICAL (This is the meaning by the way Joe) if we as a country legalize weed but then continue to keep other drugs illegal.

    I have seen many people in my own family who has had their lives ruined by their pot addiction. So save me all the addict derived propaganda on how innocent weed is and how it will magic the world into a better place. The world will only be better off when there are no users for the drug cartels to supply and then our people who place themselves in the way of danger to keep our nation free from this social cancer would not have to die for the stupidity of the users.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 7:54 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    Awe the big bad government is so evil and bleh bleh bleh. This isn't the 60's silly, you really need to get out of the stoned ages already.

    Not Expert: Drug Addicts, some just have delusions of self importance.
    Experts on Drugs = Doctors, Medical Researchers, The World Health Organization! On wait that much be that big scary evil one world government trying to get us...ooooooh lets all go shack up guns and dry food goods and wait out Y2K in our bunkers. God what a nut job you must be.

    And I am sorry but it would be illogical to allow addicts to make the laws governing drug use. Wow you really are just plain stupid. How can so much exist in such a small mind without collapsing into a singularity of stupid from which not even logic cannot escape. You sure are working hard at it.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 7:41 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    No Keven, now read over it again and the class what you failed to understand the first time. If it helps, read Joe's little post about having to have done something in order to know its wrong. See if that helps.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 6:43 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    Hypocrite:
    When a person allows one fact of knowledge to exist in contradiction of another fact, and argues for one point of the two; knowing they are both identical.
    Fascist:
    Someone who insists; dictatorially, that their point of view is correct and wishes to enforce their views in the form of law to control another person's activities.

    People FROM Vandals country want nada to do with your opinion, and you're telling ME to leave?
    Yah, g'luck with that....

    And yes, being that you have NO EXPERIENCE with either issue, drinking or smoking weed, I think you better leave it to the experts, they KNOW something that you don't, like everything.
    Mr. Control, "vandal", what he REALLY wants is to use government as a police state to enforce whatever they've convinced him is "not good for him". Being that he has NO appreciation of judgement, he is SO indoctrinated by his Daddy, Big Givernment, he has NO thought processes of his own, instead choosing to let government THINK for him, because intellectually, it's a lot easier.

     
  • t ford posted at 2:31 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    t ford Posts: 1

    i just read thru most of the posts in here. oh boy! there are some ppl so out of touch with the truth it scares me! cannabis prohibition was started by men long dead to line there already deep pockets with even more money at the expense of everyday americans and now almost 80 years later when some of that damage is being rectified a bunch of brain washed fools can't and won't open their eyes. they continue to regurgitate the nonsense used by nixon's tools! go ahead keep lying to yourselfs if it makes you feel better about destroying our country and youths future by continuing to deny access to the fuel,food, fiber and medicine cannabis provides and is being utilized by the rest of the planet! betcha it's not illegal in china?do you understand how they used racism and fear to get the whole thing started to begin with? i understand how its too late for you but i hope your children are not lost in the hate you are showing toward fyour fellow humans!

     
  • Lindsey Rinehart posted at 12:06 am on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

    Lindsey Rinehart Posts: 2

    This thread is ridiculous. Marijuana is SAFER than alcohol. You can DIE from OD with alcohol. Marijuana does not cause Violence, at all. It is SAFER than WATER. You can OD on water, not marijuana.
    ID and WA will have the Same stuff going on that it has always had going on, and you had better believe ISP was lying their asses off when they said that border watches are 'unlikely.' Yeah right. Remember, cops can lie to you. They watch the ID, OR border like you wouldn't believe.
    The KIDS already get it on the blackmarket, just as they do alcohol. Notice that kids get more beer than liquor in ID? There's a reason for that, State Licensed Liquor Stores. Safe access for responsible adults cuts availability to kids.
    Medical Marijuana is headed for ID's 2014 Ballot in a BIG way. Then we will have medical for patients only, which is about what ID can handle. Although there are rumors of Decrim Petitions being considered for N. ID cities and counties. ID Government needs to catch up to it's residents.

     
  • BoxcarBill posted at 11:35 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    BoxcarBill Posts: 1074

    yep

     
  • BoxcarBill posted at 11:29 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    BoxcarBill Posts: 1074

    Oh boy! A windfall for Idaho via fines and, for profit, private prisons. Ca-ching!
    They come to buy cheaper alcohol, and we'll go to obtain weed.

    ... oh, and God forbid parents expose their kids to alcohol. How much of a problem is alcohol in France, Spain, and Italy where wine is consumed by the family? Ever hear of college kids there falling drunk out of dorm windows or dying from alcohol enemas?

    Lick your chops coppers, as a threat to the American way can be vanquished by higher revenue.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 11:08 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Nobody has yet answered why, If we must keep marijuana illegal to protect us from ourselves and to protect society from pot smokers, why is it ok for alcohol to remain legal?

    Does anyone actually doubt that alcohol is a more harmful substance than cannabis? We've all been around belligerent, out of control drunks at one time or another haven't we? Has anyone ever seen or even heard of a belligerent out of control pothead? There may be some, but I sure as heck have never witnessed one; and if there are any I'd wager that they were drinking alcohol too.

    It still boils down to personal freedom and yes - - personal responsibility. A person who drives under the influence of marijuana and injures someone is just as guilty as someone who drives under the influence of alcohol and injures someone. By the same token, the person who relaxes after a long day at work by smoking a little pot in the privacy and safety of his home is no more guilty of a crime than the person who unwinds by having a beer, a glass of wine, or a cocktail in the privacy and safety of his home. We are all responsible and accountable for the consequences of our actions.

    See what a beautiful thing logic is?

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 10:38 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Wow. You are equating raping a woman or child, or murdering someone, with smoking weed? Seriously?

    I'll assume you are serious and really cannot see the distinction, So I'll explain:

    Raping or Murdering someone IS wrong, because you are doing HARM TO ANOTHER. Smoking weed IS NOT wrong, because even if you are correct that it's harmful, you are NOT HARMING ANOTHER.

    Is that simple enough for you?

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 10:22 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.--Nope not me in the least bit.
    Fascist: seeks to unify their nation based upon supra personal connections of ancestry and culture through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community through discipline, indoctrination, and physical training.--Nope I just don't want drugs wasting any more people's lives.

    You may want to understand the words your throwing around Loser Joe, and maybe want to move away from Idaho. Your bringing down our states image and reputation.

    So since I do not do something I cannot know its wrong your saying? Lets follow that logic..
    I never beat a raped a woman or child, so I cannot know that's wrong?
    I never grab a hot stove or pan when I was a child so I cannot know that it will burn/hurt me?
    I never murdered someone, so I cannot understand that doing that is wrong?

    Really how retarded do you choose to be Joe? See that is a choice you have, choose to be a decent smart person or a animal wallowing in their own stupidity like its a wonderful smelling perfume. Go take a bath and start making a better choice for yourself.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 10:00 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    Vandal, I just wann make sure I got this right:
    You DO NOT drink, never have, and you DO NOT smoke pot, and never have.
    But you KNOW all about them both.
    And you KNOW they are SO bad for everyone.
    Enough that YOU think that "society" needs to "control what people do with their bodies"?

    This is both hypocritical AND fascist.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 8:10 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    "... are the only others posting beyond maybe a rare other with any regularity who have a firm grasp on the reality."

    That was trippy. I doubt that anybody has a firm grasp on reality. Reality is over as soon as it happens, what happens next is speculation and that just guessing.

    So what about the reality of what just happened? Well that's kind of subjective, a matter of perception.

    Perhaps it is the objective reality where truth lives?

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 6:35 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    The issue is not about and has nothing to do with, alcohol. I have never gotten drunk. The taste of the alcohol chemical is just beyond words in disgusting for me.

    So what insight do you need on Booze? Saying it is so bad and trying to make pot sound like a innocent little thing? The little brother to a big bad choice is still a bad choice no matter its size. So all of you attempts to distract and change the subject from worthless pot to booze and other things is futile and a waste of time.

    And just because as Joe says "about a zillion people" think they know something to be correct does not make it so. As is the case with all the collective numbers of drug users who think they are correct in saying their drug(s) of choice are harmless and should be legal so they can have a field day.

    Rationale and DeNiles are the only others posting beyond maybe a rare other with any regularity who have a firm grasp on the reality.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 4:59 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    Keven, very nice job of carrying the flag.
    Rationale, you know NOTHING about marijuana, every one of your arguments are wrong, and there's about a zillion peopole who know the subject matter FAR better than you ever will, sorry.

     
  • chilada01 posted at 4:28 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    chilada01 Posts: 180

    Still waiting for some insight on BOOZE. Anyone? Really looking for a answer from the peanut gallery.... ( Vandel, Deniles,Rationale,) do you ever drink alcohol and I don't mean getting tanked ? Fill me in on this.

     
  • flattopramen posted at 2:53 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    flattopramen Posts: 140

    By Rationale's "rationale" we should also:

    - Test for motor response times and lingering health issues in all licensed drivers. Not up to par? Revoked due to endangering the public.

    - As all morons are dangerous... anyone with an IQ under 130 needs to be identified and monitored. ( I actually kind of support this one).

    - Children born with the "Warrior gene" and other genetic concerns will be tested and labeled as dangerous.

    - All food and drinks that are determined to be dangerous to the average citizen shall be scheduled as drugs, sugar has been to proven to be as addictive as heroin and cocaine. Look it up.


    Rationale would be much more comfortable in a place like China...Don't you think? Where the government looks over your shoulder and determines your loyalty... and then determines your fate.
    Please leave this country to the real Americans. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 2:46 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    What exactly is illogical about my argument? This is an issue of personal liberty; nothing more and nothing less. If you believe marijuana to be bad for you, then by all means do not use it! And if you believe that it should be illegal because it could cause harm to those who use it, then to be consistent (and logical) you must also believe that the use of alcohol and tobacco - - two legal substances that are indisputably more harmful than marijuana- - should me made criminal offenses immediately. To believe otherwise would be completely illogical!

    Your summary of my argument is incorrect. I most certainly do not know it is bad for me; in fact there are many beneficial uses for marijuana and there were studies done in the 70's that showed marijuana is useful in treating cancer. This news was suppressed because it wasn't the conclusion that served the government's interest.

    Do I know if it is true that marijuana would help cancer patients? No I don't. But I do know that it is absolutely not addictive, regardless of it being 'classified' as such by a government agency with an agenda. And I do know that there are HUNDREDS of legal substances that are more harmful. I don't advocate legalization 'for the betterment of society" as you say'; I advocate legalization because we are (supposedly) free men and women who own our bodies and have the right to decide what we eat or drink or smoke - - and we are also responsible for the consequences of those choices.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 2:34 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    There is no "carte blanche" clause in the constitution - - it is a document written for the purpose of limiting the power of government, not the rights of the people. But please enlighten me as to what part of the constitution you consider to me the 'carte blanche' clause?

     
  • Rationale posted at 2:16 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    Keven,

    First, stop using a logical fallacy as an argument. It makes you sound completely unintelligent.

    Second, marijuana IS addictive, and is classified under the same category as the most highly addictive drugs.

    Third, the health damage to the individual, which eventually gets paid for by the average citizen, cannot be discounted.

    Fourth, your conclusion is another logical fallacy.

    The arguments why mj should be illegal need to be addressed, and you can't logically do so. Every argument you have used is a logical fallacy.

    Once again, this is your argument: "We know it is bad for you, but for the betterment of society, let's legalize it. HUH?

    Great logic there!

     
  • Rationale posted at 2:09 pm on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    Well, Keven,

    Then look no further than the carte blanche clause which gives the government the authority to protect them, and us, from morons.

    If you don't know what that clause is, I suggest you study more.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 11:22 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    "The enumeration in the constitution of certain rights SHALL NOT be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people"


    The 9th amendment; absolutely beautiful in its simplicity and directness! Yet widely ignored.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 11:20 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Rationale, your comment demonstrates a lack of understanding of not only the constitution, but our form of government, which is a republic, not a democracy.

    The constitution doesn't give us ANY rights; it guarantees the rights we were born with and it lists the specific powers that the people and the states gave to the federal government.

    In a constitutional republic, the rights of the individual are protected from the tyranny of the majority. Neither my liberty nor yours can be taken even if a majority of the people vote in favor of doing so. By contrast, democracy is little more than mob rule; 50% plus 1 people could vote to strip you of your individual rights; it is analogous to the scenario of 2 wolves and 1 sheep all getting an equal vote on what's for dinner.

    As Ben Franklin said when asked what kind of government was formed at the constitutional convention: .........."a republic, IF you can keep it"

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 11:00 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    You know the thing that really jumps out at me from all these comments as nothing to do with the issue of marijuana use specifically.

    What is particularly tragic, but shouldn't be surprising I guess, and the number of commenters asking "Where does the constitution say we have a right to use marijuana?" or stating "The constitution doesn't give us the right to use drugs".

    Comments such as this demonstrate a glaring lack of understanding of our constitution and our form of government; namely that we are a republic and not a democracy!

    The Constitution is NOT a list of the rights we have! It is, rather, a list of the authorities we give the federal government, and a guarantee of the rights we were born with. The constitution specifically states that the federal government has ONLY the authority given to it by the constitution; nothing more. This is further clarified by the 10th amendment. When the constitution was being debated, many thought there was no need for the 'bill of rights' because this concept was widely understood. But some realized that over time the federal government would grow and attempt to exercise authority that it did not have, thus the bill of rights was added to concretely guarantee some of the most important rights the people maintain. But they realized this could also be construed as a list of all of our rights, which is why the 9th amendment was included. PLEASE read it; It is only one sentence long: " THE ENUMERATION IN THE CONSTITUTION OF CERTAIN RIGHTS SHALL NOT BE CONSTRUED TO DENY OR DISPARAGE OTHERS RETAINED BY THE PEOPLE"

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 10:49 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Exactly. Alcohol does far more damage to individuals and their families, and society as a whole, than marijuana, PLUS it is absolutely addictive to many people and marijuana isn't.

    As far as the effects on society or innocent people, when was the last time you saw a headline such as "Stoned man beats wife" or "Man high on marijuana in armed standoff with police". You DON'T see those stories because it is always alcohol, not marijuana, that contributes to these situations.

    And then there's tobacco...... another legal substance that is so much worse than marijuana in so many ways.

    Bottom line... Those who don't think using marijuana is ok shouldn't use it! Simple solution!

     
  • chilada01 posted at 9:24 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    chilada01 Posts: 180

    Vandal and all you others who think pot is a " DRUG" just one quick question,what are your views on alcohol? You know that thing that has killed,destroyed more lives than all other drugs combined but yet it is legal.I would be willing to bet that all you hypocrites do par take in that from time to time. Pot calling the kettle? I think so........... Time to crawl back under the rock if you do.....

     
  • Michael Alexander posted at 1:13 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Michael Alexander Posts: 93

    The Constitution does say you have the right, look at the ninth amendment.

     
  • Michael Alexander posted at 12:47 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Michael Alexander Posts: 93

    No offense to anyone, but anyone that does not post under their real name and then try to tell others how to live and what is good for me or someone else, really should not be speaking of what others do, because obviously you do not want anyone to know what you do.
    Vandalguy you are a socialist, we live in a country founded on freedom, why do you not move to a socialist country? We Americans like Freedom.

     
  • Rationale posted at 12:31 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    Great, Joe,

    When you can find the text in the Constitution that says smoking weed is a right, then you have a legitimate argument....oh, wait, it doesn't! So all you are left with is asinine, ignorant logical fallacies.

    The only morons are those loser addicts who claim they only smoke weed on the weekends, never go outside their house, and never go to work stoned.

    Your denial is proof of your addiction. And yes, if druggies go to work, drive, or endanger anybody while high or drunk, they should be shot on sight and removed from the gene pool.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 10:22 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    LoL!

    My fault for not doing drugs, yeah those dealers are bringing it over it here me to not use it? Whats the marketing theory for supply when there is no demand? Society is people, since it is the collection of people. The rights of society are the rights as derived by the rights of the people.

    Oh god I said I wouldn't, sorry. But these people just feed you lines and its almost too tempting.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 9:37 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    Vandal....
    Yes, I was addicted to Marijuana, as an adolescenet.
    Then I quit.
    The withdrawal was unreal; I couldn't believe it.
    There was none.

    As to "foaming at the mouth", that's the DIFFERENCE between you & those of us who want & EXPECT Freedom, you have the need to cpntrol others, what they do, how they do it, and the rest of us don't have the primordial urges of inferiority based on a lack of control that you have.

    "Society" doesn't HAVE "rights", Vandal. People do; as guaranteed by the Constitution.

    Thanks for attempting to control us all, hasn't worked ever, not in prohibition, when morons made drinking illegal & created today's Mafia, and doesn't work today when thousands of Mexicans and a LOT of Americans are dead as a result of the trade itself being illegal.
    Every time there's a drug death, blame yourself, as it's YOUR fault.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 9:18 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    Wow... thank you for the laughs. I enjoy how the addicts attack anyone who disagrees with their falsely assumed rights to use drugs. They practically foam at the mouth because someone wants to help them and to try to reduce the impact of the laundry list of crimes that are linked with their little hobby as they call it.

    The right of the government to keep users from their drugs is established by the right of society to keep harmful elements out of its body. The right as established by laws and courts that society has a right to be safe and free of drug addictions.

    You can't argue with an addict, it has as much effect as 8 billion people all saying the sun will not rise in the east the next day.

    Thanks for the laughs raving drug addled trolls. Do yourself a favor and get the help you need from a qualified Doctor and not someone who gives drugs out. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone to blind to try to see beyond their own smoke. Besides I would likely die from laughing to hard from the sheer stupidity of their arguments.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 9:10 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Time to buy Frito Lay stock.

     
  • truthful1 posted at 8:31 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    truthful1 Posts: 554

    meh...weed is going to be legal everywhere soon enough, why fight the inevitable?

     
  • Michael Alexander posted at 8:23 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Michael Alexander Posts: 93

    So I say let the people of Idaho have a vote on decriminalizing marijuana, since we are surrounded by medical states and now a legalized state next door. Why do we continue this stupid war, haven't enough people died already?
    Michigan, Rhode Island, Maine, Massachusetts, and Vermont are also looking to legalize marijuana, Idaho needs to join in!

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 7:59 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Do you seriously not grasp the difference between the "crime" of smoking weed and the REAL crime of raping or murdering someone? REALLY?

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 7:51 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Wrong again, VandalGuy. (Article VI, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution, known as the Supremacy Clause, establishes the U.S. Constitution, Federal Statutes, and U.S. Treaties as "the supreme law of the land.")

    The supremacy clause establishes the federal government as the "supreme law of the land" ONLY in exercising the constitutional powers specifically given to it. By definition (and logic) the federal government is not superior (supreme) to the states or the people if it attempts to exercise a power that it doesn't have under the constitution.

    The common misconception is that the constitution gives us our rights. That is absolutely not the case. The constitution guarantees that rights we already have cannot be taken from us. The federal government has ONLY the power that the constitution specifically gives it.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 7:40 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Vandal Guy, you ask "Where in the constitution does it say its okay?" Well, actually nowhere in the constitution does it say it's ok to smoke pot. And it doesn't have to! The constitution is NOT a document that lists the rights we have. Quite the contrary, the constitution was written to limit the power of government, not the rights of the people.

    Yes there is a 'bill of rights" (the first 10 amendments) and the right to smoke pot isn't listed. Now get out your copy of the constitution (you DO have a copy, I assume) and read the 9th amendment. On the off chance that you don't have a copy, I'll post it here:

    "The enumeration in the constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    Let me know if you need me to explain to you what that sentence means........

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 7:30 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    "Vandal" (the imposter) says:

    "No you single minded twit"
    No, I have (4) minds. I smoked dope when I was younger, and it CHANGED ME for life....

    "You can do plenty of things to your body. Tattoo, nose rings, tongue rings, dying hair, shaving bald or other styles, and plenty of things get done"
    Got it.
    Can you smoke cigarettes, too, or is that going to endanger someone else?

    "You have the right to choose what Legal things you put into your body. Drugs are not on the list of options you have. That is the whole point"
    No, you simple minded ninny, it's NOT the point.
    The POINT is WHY does the government take it upon itself to DETERMINE what a person can & can't do to THEIR OWN body? The premise that teh government can & can't tell you what to imbibe or use is NOT spelled out anywhere in the Constitution , period. You; you're the "good for your body police", and it's ALl about controlling what OTHER people do with themselves that is YOUR issue.

    "Even IF it is only "you" your actions are hurting it is then not okay"
    WRONGO. I have EVERY RIGHT to do with my body as I wish, not YOU wish.

    "Society has a duty to protect people from harm even if that harm comes from themselves"
    Society has NO "duty" to do anything of the sort. This is PURELY incorrect, and wrong. IF it is the case, WHY are people "allowed" to drink & smoke? What garbage....

    "why do you think people who seek to hurt themselves get to visit the psycho ward and people who are a danger to themselves and others are not allowed to go free and do as they want"
    The reason this is so is because of people like YOU that believe it is THEIR responsibilty to CONTROL what others do. If I am on my deathbed, or I just DECIDE to end MY life, it's not YOUR choice, it's MINE.

    "So take your " hes a fascist!" nonsense and shove it in that gaping hole between your ears where a brain on a normal person would be"
    This, form the person who has a NEED to CONTROL what all others do with their bodies.
    Yeah, sure, you make a lot of good points (right, dripping sarcasm).....Mods, you've deleted me for plenty less.....but PLEASE don't delete this, it makes sense.

    "Stop acting like a creep with the retarded "Fascism, Conspiracy, Government trying to keep me down, etc, etc" bull. Get with the times and realize this isn't a game. Time to grow up child"
    So; my diagreeing with you as a Fascist, which is PRECISELY what you are when you felel the need to control everyone into YOUR thnking, and considering that ther may be conspiracies, and POSSIBLY thinking that the government is overreaching makes me a...child?
    I am SO hurt. You have no idea......

    "And I don't make the vandals look bad, they can do that own their own without help at times. Were as people like you both make the very human race look bad"
    Give credit where it's due.
    YOU make the Vandals look worse than anyone I've ever seen. I am VERY happy the rest of The Vandal folks are nothing like you.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 7:24 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    VandalGuy, in the story about the "sovereign citizen" in the press today, there was no mention of marijuana use, or any other drug for that matter. Why exactly do you assume that the person that story was about uses marijuana? In fact in the youtube video posted with the story, he seemed quite well spoken and certainly didn't seem to be the stereotypical "stoner", whether or not you agree with his viewpoint.

    Your assertion that "Crime is Crime" also misses the mark by a wide margin, but you are partly correct. You are right that there can be white collar crime that is not violent, but is still crime nonetheless. If a white collar criminal steals your life savings in a ponzi scheme, that is every bit as much a crime as the violent street thug who steals your wallet, because both are violations of your right to life, liberty, and property. In contrast the kid (or 40-something man) who smokes marijuana occasionally (or even frequently) is NOT committing a crime because he is not violating anybody's right to life, liberty, or property.

     
  • Michael Alexander posted at 7:18 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Michael Alexander Posts: 93

    Rationale, you could say the same thing about alcohol. Should we try prohibition again? How about the seat belt law, is it also NOT a victim-less crime? Your argument is flawed, so you claim there are always victims when it comes to drugs, well in that case lets make all drugs illegal, like aspirin, and acetaminophen, morphine too! Just because YOU think it is NOT a victim-less crime does not mean it is true. When was the last time you were a victim of some one smoking pot?

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 7:17 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    I agree with Mr. GM.

    Seriously, how can you actually say that someone has a "right" to not be "endangered" by someone that has done nothing wrong?

    The logic is amazing:
    "So; Jim Diggity might smoke a joint, THEN there's NO DOUBT that he'll drive his car into a pile of pedestrians. This COULD have been avoided, if we JUST kept POT illegal".....

    Now THAT is stupid.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 7:13 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1424

    Of course there are negative consequences from frequent marijuana use, Rationale - - primarily the lack of motivation to get off the couch and do something productive. The answer is not to restrict our personal freedom. The answer is to stop removing the consequences for detrimental behavior. If co-workers have to pick up the slack for an unmotivated slacker, regardless of the reason for the slacker's lack of work ethic, that's an issue for the employer to address with the offending employee. Same for the "healthcare" argument. People should be responsible for their own actions. And to be consistent in your logic that these are valid reasons for marijuana to remain illegal, you would absolutely have to support the reinstatement of alcohol prohibition, and the prohibition of tobacco, because both of those substances are infinitely more harmful to both the user and society as a whole than marijuana is.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 7:08 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    "Druggies do not have the right to endanger other people"

    The only people who need to fear marijuana smokers are, in no particular order, Twinkie the Kid, King Ding Dong and Fruit Pie the Magician.

    The rest of you have nothing to fear... Except for maybe each other.

     
  • flattopramen posted at 6:41 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    flattopramen Posts: 140

    Hey Vandal,

    Hand over your candy, soda and fruit loops, the Feds have scheduled them as a harmful substance, and we don't want to pay for your diabetes.

    PS The state mental facilities release harmful people everyday due to overpopulation. I assume that's how you got out?

    PPS Nice work with the name calling, always a good standby when nonsense isn't working.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 6:26 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    No you single minded twit.

    You can do plenty of things to your body. Tattoo, nose rings, tongue rings, dying hair, shaving bald or other styles, and plenty of things get done.

    You have the right to choose what Legal things you put into your body. Drugs are not on the list of options you have. That is the whole point. Even IF it is only "you" your actions are hurting it is then not okay. Society has a duty to protect people from harm even if that harm comes from themselves, why do you think people who seek to hurt themselves get to visit the psycho ward and people who are a danger to themselves and others are not allowed to go free and do as they want.

    So take your " hes a fascist!" nonsense and shove it in that gaping hole between your ears where a brain on a normal person would be. Stop acting like a creep with the retarded "Fascism, Conspiracy, Government trying to keep me down, etc, etc" bull. Get with the times and realize this isn't a game. Time to grow up child.

    And I don't make the vandals look bad, they can do that own their own without help at times. Were as people like you both make the very human race look bad.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 6:00 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    OK, I get it.
    According to "vandal", you have no RIGHT to so with your OWN body what you wish, your body BELONGS to the government. This is....FASCIST.
    Talk about "darwin", the idea that ol' Vandal thinks that we don't have a right to ouor own body.....smells WAY too much like Republcans & abortion.
    Tell us, GENIUS; WHO has the RIGHT to control our bodies?

    And Caius is right, you make the Vandals look bad.....

    And rationale, well, he is SURE that ANY people who smoke pot are ABSOLUTELY going to get high & go driving around, like he probably did when he was a kid. Then, (cuz that's not enough) he wants to have people put to DEATH over "driving under the influence". I'm CERTAIN he also has a bumpersticker that says bad things about cell phones in cars, too.....

     
  • Rationale posted at 4:25 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    Once again, there is a compromise that can be reached. All drug users must pay for their own healthcare, and upon driving under the influence the first time or working under the influence, you get the death penalty.

    Druggies do not have the right to endanger other people. And, no, druggies do not simply stay home!

    You want your freedom to do drugs...then agree to the above terms!

    Moreover, arguing that using drugs is a "right" shows how idiotic druggies are. It is not a "right." In fact, it's not even a "privilege."

     
  • Rationale posted at 4:20 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    AHHH< another false claim..."victimless crime." Sorry, but there are always victims when it comes to drugs.

    Family & friends, who live with effects of the user.

    Co-workers, who pick up the slack.

    Employers, who pay for drug testing to protect themselves from lawsuits...and co-workers from users.

    And then, of course, there is society....who must pay for the healthcare of people who intentionally ingest poisons. The list of negative side effects of marijuana is a mile long, so you cannot claim it is harmless...or only harms the user. Start with the functional MRI's of marijuana users. Nice black holes in the brain!

    Argue all you want...this is NOT a victimless crime.

     
  • Rationale posted at 4:13 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    Hey Joe,

    Bad news buddy...every argument you are using is a logical fallacy.


    "First, WHERE in the Constitution does it say that the government has the RIGHT to tell you what you can use or not use, anything? It doesn't."

    Uh, yes it does, Joe. The government has the right to make laws to protect the people. I suggest you look at the carte blanche clause of the Constitution.

    "The "war on drugs" has been an abject failure, ANY Law Enforcement people will tell you that they catch a TINY percentage of drugs coming through. We continue to spend BILLIONS of dollars on it though, and it's ignorant."

    Uh, failure? How do you argue failure when that many people are in jail? I actually call it a success. And think of all those who are employed because of it!

    "Pot does NOT make you start using cocaine or heroin any more than saying that anyone who drinks a glass of wine MUST become an alcoholic."

    Well, those who claim that are guilty of a logical fallacy. But they don't claim they MUST start using other drugs...that's your smokescreen...and a logical fallacy. Opponents often claim it is a gateway drug, but they never say it forces people to do other drugs!

    "When they do legalize it, they will also have on the spot testing for impairment frmo it, and you will be arrested for DWI on it, same as with drinking."

    Really? So, aside from your "two wrongs make a right" fallacy, you have to set an impairment level...and it's not quite as easy to do as blood-alcohol monitoring or breathalyzers.

    "There is NO SUCH THING as "pot addiction"."

    And your point is? The argument is whether it should be legalized, and the opposition says it is bad. All the druggies use this claim...funny, it's classified with cocaine because of its addictive nature...but I'm sure they simply made that up.

    "Those of you against this would absolutely be the same people who were against alcohol during prohibition. The result of your efforts then was the same as it is now; monstrous corruption, violence, paid off law enforcement & courts, millions of people SELECTIVELY prosecuted for comitting the same "crimes" as many others did. In Detroit, EVERY night, during prohibition, people heard the sound of machine guns firing from FBI versus the MOb, all trying to cross the Detreoit River into Windsor, Canada, to get Whiskey. Many died, same as today, over WHAT?
    Drinking."

    Soooo, legalize something you KNOW is bad for society so we can somehow "better" that same society. Got it... wait a minute...HUH? Millions more people die from the negative consequences and side effects of drinking than from prohibition

    So; we legalize, it, and all of the crime associated with it goes away.

    Uh, NOPE, wrong again. Check out a few California towns whose crime rates have skyrocketed. Oh, and do you think the drug cartels are simply gonna disappear? Perhaps you should go speak with them. Nice unsubstantiated fallacy there.

    That's what all of you againts pot are doing, arguing FOR violence, arguing FOR corruption, arguing FOR watsed tax dollars on unenforceable law and arguing FOR keeping non-violent people incarcerated at MY expense.

    Actually, NOPE! Wrong again. Another logical fallacy...the "either/or" logical fallacy. I choose what's behind door #3. And no, I'm not arguing for any of that. I'm arguing for people to obey the laws.

    Geez, Joe, read what I said below....all the arguments FOR legalizing pot are logical fallacies. But potheads aren't exactly known for their "logic," are they?

     
  • Rationale posted at 3:53 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    Awesome!!!! Two logical fallacies for the price of one!

    But your "two wrongs make a right" false analogy is still...wait for it...illogical!

     
  • Rationale posted at 3:51 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    Progressing towards what, exactly?

    Seems to me your "accept everything and let everybody do what they want" mentality is going to "progress" us right to anarchy and Darwinism...which means progressives are actually regressives.

    Let me guess...you are best friends with that Robert Peterson guy who got tased?

     
  • CaiusCosades posted at 2:49 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    CaiusCosades Posts: 380

    You truly are a terrible person. Your parents ought to be ashamed of themselves.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 2:30 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    Well seems I learned a new word today, "Sovereign Citizen". Yep elements of the pro-drug group surely smack of this pompous, self serving, selfish, Darwin award candidate group.

    And the label of violent and non-violent crimes are not an issue. Crime is crime. White collar crimes are not violent and they go to jail to. Attempts at smuggling drugs and other such are also often non-violent. Yet everyone goes to the same place. There is no violent offender only jails, there is just jail.

     
  • Michael Alexander posted at 2:04 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Michael Alexander Posts: 93

    If we really lived in a free country, people should not have to worry about being locked up for a victim-less crime. Pot should not be legalized, it should be decriminalized, how much money is wasted on housing potheads in prison? Stop the insanity, stop worrying what others do, and live and let live. Pot is not nearly as harmful as tobacco, or alcohol, how many people commit violent crimes when they are stoned? We will only see more people get locked up for pot now that Washington has legalized it, what we should do is pass a resolution to decriminalize it and save our resources for violent crimes.

     
  • CaiusCosades posted at 12:24 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    CaiusCosades Posts: 380

    VandalGuy, I am embarrassed to share an Alma Mater with you. How arrogant are you? Just because you have an OPINION you are going to spam it everywhere and fight to force everyone to obey to your OPINION???

     
  • Humanist posted at 12:20 pm on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    That storyline has already been done. Be sure to rent "Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle".

     
  • yourneighbor posted at 11:30 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    yourneighbor Posts: 224

    Some people here just need a good ole kick in the "In betweens" Joe you are so spot on with this topic. I guess some people just don't mind their TAX DOLLARS being wasted. Idiots..........

     
  • Humanist posted at 10:08 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    VandalGuy is clearly trying to live in the conservative past and has not accepted the fact that the rest of the world is progressing without him. And based on his writings (like the use of the word "rube") I would pin him as an angry old man sick of the young people in this Country causing us to go to he!! in a handbasket.

     
  • flattopramen posted at 9:54 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    flattopramen Posts: 140

    Marijuana Users Are Safer Drivers Than Non-Marijuana Users, New Study Shows
    http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2012/4/prweb9375729.htm

     
  • flattopramen posted at 9:44 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    flattopramen Posts: 140

    The consistency of your lack of originality mixed with pitiful attempts at humor is really quite remarkable. You should work for the Press!

     
  • flattopramen posted at 9:34 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    flattopramen Posts: 140

    Hey VandalGuy, when you get a chance please check into what the rest of us call the "real world". You'll find things are not so simple as "facts and truths".

     
  • flattopramen posted at 9:31 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    flattopramen Posts: 140

    If we went by your thinking than sugar and other junk foods should also be banned. Diabetes anybody?

    96 oz. sodas, triple bacon burgers, excessive TV/internet usage. Rock climbing, swimming within 30 mins. of a meal. All potentially addictive and seriously harmful activities.

    It is actually a God given right to determine your own destiny. Your argument is just plain silly.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 9:14 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    And a question for you, where do you get the idea you have a Right to use pot or other drugs?

    The idea "I can do what I want as long as I hurt no one else, its my body" thing is not true and is not grounds for it.

    Where in the constitution does it say its okay? Life liberty and happiness? If you need a drug to be happy then your not happy with the drug your just sedated. Also the supreme court has said it is not covered there either.

    Pot is not addicting.... Yet its users refuse to quit using even when its illegal AND the users are working so hard to get it legal so they can use it without fear? No that is not a sign of it being addictive at all. Keep lying to yourself if you want to but that does not make it true.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 8:52 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    Where in the Constitution?

    Article VI, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution, known as the Supremacy Clause, establishes the U.S. Constitution, Federal Statutes, and U.S. Treaties as "the supreme law of the land."

    We continue to spend billions of dollars because of the users not the none users. Why does this fact keep not being brought up?

    Pot does not make you start using cocaine or other stuff, but how many users of the one think the other stuff won't hurt them since pot was soooooo innocent? Use your brain and actually think.

    Dealers getting rich on supplying the drugs to the users. Any corruption was from crooks and criminals. And since drinking became legalized all the crimes associated with it went away? So no one gets drunk and rapes, drunk and drives, drunk and kills people in acts of violence. Also the criminal types have no hands in alcohol? Look up Russian Mob and vodka you rube.

    We who are against drugs are against the violence that users bring with them. Your Tax money pays for those people like you who choose to break the law and I don't care if they are non-violent offenders. They get what they deserve by thinking they are better than everyone else and laws in general or specific. I have no tolerance for criminals, it's their actions who get them where they are not mine.

    Simple fact and truth. Users are the cause of these problems not the rest of us who are not users. Stop using the drugs and the problems will all go away.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 8:37 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    The gov't is expected to keep the general public safe in public places. Look at the laws on alcohol. If the gov't operated as you suggest there would be no restraints on consuming alcohol.

    As for mj it has its inherent chemical makeup that limits how it is used and measured. It is not water soluble and cannot be distilled into any water based beverage. It offers no direct or indirect volatile measure of its onboard potency so there is no way to measure levels of impairment with any breath analysis. The only usable field assessments will be functional, as in sobriety performance tests. They can do blood analysis but even that is not finely calibrated. These are facts. If it were simple to use mj they'd have figured it out long ago. Management of mj is not easy, or cheap and the potential for serious consequences is 100% enormous.

    Consider just one well understood fact. Any level of mj intoxication results in pupillary dilation and sluggish pupillary responses. There is always hypersensitivity to light. This visual impairment is the baseline, the minimum level of mj interference with sensory input and related cognitive functionality. Visual acuity and operating a motor vehicle safely is also quite well understood.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 7:46 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    What a BUNCH of garbage from those of you against legalizing pot.

    First, WHERE in the Constitution does it say that the government has the RIGHT to tell you what you can use or not use, anything? It doesn't.

    The "war on drugs" has been an abject failure, ANY Law Enforcement people will tell you that they catch a TINY percentage of drugs coming through. We continue to spend BILLIONS of dollars on it though, and it's ignorant.

    Pot does NOT make you start using cocaine or heroin any more than saying that anyone who drinks a glass of wine MUST become an alcoholic.

    When they do legalize it, they will also have on the spot testing for impairment frmo it, and you will be arrested for DWI on it, same as with drinking.

    There is NO SUCH THING as "pot addiction".

    Those of you against this would absolutely be the same people who were against alcohol during prohibition. The result of your efforts then was the same as it is now; monstrous corruption, violence, paid off law enforcement & courts, millions of people SELECTIVELY prosecuted for comitting the same "crimes" as many others did. In Detroit, EVERY night, during prohibition, people heard the sound of machine guns firing from FBI versus the MOb, all trying to cross the Detreoit River into Windsor, Canada, to get Whiskey. Many died, same as today, over WHAT?
    Drinking.
    So; we legalize, it, and all of the crime associated with it goes away.

    That's what all of you againts pot are doing, arguing FOR violence, arguing FOR corruption, arguing FOR watsed tax dollars on unenforceable law and arguing FOR keeping non-violent people incarcerated at MY expense.

     
  • max power posted at 7:36 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    max power Posts: 559

    *** Harry Pothead And The Lost Temple Of Bongs ***

    Coming to a theater near you. Bound to be a hit with the Occupy Wall Street and Occuturd crowd.

    "Should be popular with the brain dead Hitler Youth er Obama Youth too" - Jack Hammer

     
  • Rationale posted at 6:55 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    DeNiles,

    I'm not sure mj will be legalized at the federal level unless they change its drug classification.

     
  • Rationale posted at 6:53 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    exclamation,

    Ask all you want, because that is a "two wrongs make a right" logical fallacy: "This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because an action that is wrong is wrong even if another person would also do it."

    Once again, please use logic instead of fallacies to argue.

    As for tobacco and alcohol, what kind of idiot says "I know these are bad for us, I know these have terrible effects on society, so let's legalize more under the guise that it is the right thing to do?!"

     
  • DeNiles posted at 6:37 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    In 2009 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found that 1/3 of fatal accidents where testing was conducted showed drug impairment beyond just alcohol. Drugs and driving do not mix well.

    It is also fact that mj intoxication is unpredictable. With alcohol we understand what 4 beers or 2 cocktails will do to the average person. There is no equivalency with mj. There is no '40-proof' joint. One dose of pot could be weak and the next incapacitating. Unpredictable. That means that any pot seller or server could be held liable for effectively overdosing their customer if they get too stoned and cause harm (the same as getting a bar patron blasted on alcohol). This also means that even the most conservative pot smoker could unwittingly become overloaded.

    Cultivating pot is nowhere near as complex as making wine or beer. It is as simple as growing your own tomatoes at home. Some seeds, soil, water and time and any person could have a crop yield able to sustain themselves and their friends (while the next crop grows). Nobody will buy this stuff when they can easily get it for nothing. No massive tax income.

    I fully expect that mj will be legalized. Just do not expect or try and sell la-la-land fairy tales trying to promote the effort. There will be less people in jail. There will not be massive increases in tax income. There will be more and more serious traffic accidents. There will be more unplanned pregnancies. Kids and especially teens will seek the drug. The culture of drug acceptance will become bolstered and the use of other drugs will also increase.

    Legalizing mj will not advance civilization, make it any safer or less expensive. If we have learned anything from alcohol we learned that we poorly manage inebriates. We become addicted to them. They lead to mental illness. And with alcohol we have structure, cause and effect understanding and measurable enforcements. We will have none of this with mj and it will be pretty much a homegrown, poorly regulated and uncontrolled industry.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 5:54 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    Well by legalizing it you send the message that it is okay to use the drug. This will indeed lead to more people trying the drug (yes kids too as much as you would try to say it won't). So by saying all other drug use is illegal and bad, yet you so pot is okay you end up creating a double standard. The single standard of its just bad period is better.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 5:51 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    The issue with drug users taking up so much room in prison is just stupid if you REALLY stop to think about it.

    They may be non-violent offenders, but they are still offenders.
    They chose to do the crime. But drug addiction is a disease so maybe we should build forced rehab centers to send the addicts to and help them get clean. If they repeat then send them to prison.
    It costs so much to keep them locked up, we should go ahead and free them. Hey other types of prisoners cost a lot too, we going to free the rapist, murderers, and others too? Why send anyone to prison.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 5:35 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    Wow, the speed at which the addicts appear to spout their nonsense and lies just to try to trick people is astounding.

    Pot is has no medical potentials found to be of benefit that the Doctors and Medical Researchers found to be worth the issues that the other side effects cause.

    Pot users call anyone who chooses to accept the laws and fallow them mindless sheep. Yet who is the addicted sheep bleating mindlessly for their grass/weed?

    Society is better off without these drugs. The users are the reason the cartels get so much money by continuing to use. If they instead gave up their addiction habits the drug cartels would be more crippled, but asking a addict to quit is harder then asking everyone else to empower the users.

     
  • VandalGuy posted at 5:25 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    VandalGuy Posts: 164

    That's the problem with the drug addict's mind. They use their drug and it makes them feel high so it must be good and must be legal so they can get more without going to jail.

    These poor sheep spout their same nonsense to support their drug.

    *It cures diseases.
    *Its not a gate way drug.
    *It's natural growing plant.
    *No one has overdosed on it/died from it.
    *Alcohol is legal, tobacco is legal, pot should be legal.
    *Caffeine and sugar are also addicting, outlaw them too.
    *I'm not addicted, I can quit if I wanted to.
    *I have a right to use drugs, its a civil liberty.
    *I can do whatever I want to my body as long as no one else gets hurt.
    *Its a conspiracy by the pharmaceutical companies.
    *Your a mindless sheep and are worthless for listening to the government.
    *etc, etc, etc.

    If it was not addicting then it should not be an issue to not use it and just respect the law. The war on drugs was not a failure, the addicts are the ones supporting the drug cartels with their buying the drugs. The world were the drug users kicked the habit is better than the world where drugs are legal and no one has pressure to get clean. Pot has no medical benefits that the researchers and doctors felt offset the issues of its other side effects. Alcohol and Tobacco are not good precedence for legalizing pot, it continues to cause problems, deaths and its still has links to crime, but it was legalized again so you can't put that cork back on without LOTS of fighting. Drug use is not a human right and just because the drug hurts only you directly it has negative impacts on society indirectly. If the drug was not addicting then why are so many users pressing for it to be made legal instead of just not doing it. Just because millions of people use a drug does not mean it should be allowed, there are many other stupid things people do that are not allowed but they are still done because they don't care about the damage only their addiction needs. It is a gate way drug because those who use it may not think its so bad so they try other drugs because EVERYONE was so wrong about pot. Caffeine and Sugar do not make people do totally stupid things to get a fix. Sugar is energy for the body and caffeine is has its own issues. People may not die from using pot but they have died because of the impaired mental processes it gave them. Drug users are not innocent martyrs, they broke the law by choosing to do the drugs and supporting everything that action aided. You break a law willfully you are no longer innocent. Stop doing the drug(s) solves more problems then not, so which one makes more sense?

    One of the issues that really ticks me are the personal attacks they make because society does not want drugs in it. Non-users are mindless sheep because they do as they are told, I choose to fallow the laws since they are there for a good reason and I don't think anything penalize is worth the punishment. Being a decent person and being apart of society is not something to be ashamed of or belittled.

    And once a story about pot gets posted someplace on the internet the addict flock to it to post their nonsense trying to make everyone believe them.

     
  • jmowreader posted at 5:10 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    jmowreader Posts: 1404

    I really wonder if there will be an increase in pot use. A lot of people work in jobs that drug test, and with the job situation the way it is people won't jeopardize their jobs for pot.

    On the other hand, the prison population will go down and if the state allows quality weed to be sold legally it will put the gangs in a hurt locker by cutting off one of their most reliable revenue streams.

    I kinda expect Idaho law enforcement agencies to start setting up roadblocks on the western border to catch people bringing it back...which will make me quite mad because I have never been interested in pot but bulk oregano, basil and cilantro all look like MJ and those are sales tax free in Washington.(Food should be tax exempt everywhere.) Like I really want to lay sprawled across the hood of my car while the cops field test my little baggie to find out it's really oregano, right.

    Oh...the two gateway drugs are cigarette nicotine and alcohol. Cigarettes are the gateway to uppers, alcohol to downers. It is very rare to find someone hooked on hard drugs who didn't start with cigarettes or beer. Weed has a different effect on you.

     
  • jmowreader posted at 5:10 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

    jmowreader Posts: 1404

    I really wonder if there will be an increase in pot use. A lot of people work in jobs that drug test, and with the job situation the way it is people won't jeopardize their jobs for pot.

    On the other hand, the prison population will go down and if the state allows quality weed to be sold legally it will put the gangs in a hurt locker by cutting off one of their most reliable revenue streams.

    I kinda expect Idaho law enforcement agencies to start setting up roadblocks on the western border to catch people bringing it back...which will make me quite mad because I have never been interested in pot but bulk oregano, basil and cilantro all look like MJ and those are sales tax free in Washington.(Food should be tax exempt everywhere.) Like I really want to lay sprawled across the hood of my car while the cops field test my little baggie to find out it's really oregano, right.

    Oh...the two gateway drugs are cigarette nicotine and alcohol. Cigarettes are the gateway to uppers, alcohol to downers. It is very rare to find someone hooked on hard drugs who didn't start with cigarettes or beer. Weed has a different effect on you.

     
  • exclamation posted at 11:53 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    exclamation Posts: 56

    So rationale I would have to ask then, should tobacco and alcohol be made illegal? I only ask because they both cause harm to the user ( or in some cases others when it comes to alcohol.) Both come from plants so according to your logic they're in the same classification as cocaine. Wait I think you're on to some thing If one were to use your genius level of intuition one would have to outlaw aspirin, now before you get upset think about its over use harms the user, it comes from plants (or willow bark to be exact) and people end up in the hospital from over dosing all the time by god I think you've un covered the largest pharmaceutical cover up of all time!

     
  • Rationale posted at 10:28 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    Gotta love the fact that all the arguments supporting legalizing Marijuana are actually logical fallacies.

    Even worse, the brainiacs who back this landmark decision cannot understand the ramifications of their actions.

    So, let's explain what this decision just opened the door for, shall we?

    The next people who will argue for legalization: Cocaine users.

    And because of this decision, you cannot argue that Cocaine should not be legal. MJ comes from a plant...so does cocaine! Both are classified under the same class of drugs by the federal government.

    So please explain without some asinine logical fallacy how you can justify to a cocaine user that their drug should be illegal and yours shouldn't!

    Here's a clue: You can't!

     
  • CaiusCosades posted at 8:48 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    CaiusCosades Posts: 380

    DUDE! You're harshing my mellow!

     
  • local res posted at 8:17 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    local res Posts: 1165

    If you would like to have the opportunity to smoke pot legally simply move to Washington. There is no law that keeps your tail ends here in Idaho.

     
  • local res posted at 8:15 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    local res Posts: 1165

    chouli by your logic if you live between two racist you should become racist. Hmmm i guess that is logical

     
  • local res posted at 8:13 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Pot Americas gate way drug

     
  • local res posted at 8:12 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Every Washington license plate is an opportunity for the police to stop with probable cause.

     
  • CaiusCosades posted at 7:09 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    CaiusCosades Posts: 380

    I guess totally insane psychopaths really can say something halfway intelligent every once in awhile!

     
  • searcher posted at 6:27 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    searcher Posts: 365

    It induces great cognitive dissonance to actually agree with you Joe, but, I agree with you.

     
  • searcher posted at 6:24 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    searcher Posts: 365

    Max is a troll. You will find his hunger insatiable... feeding the trolls just doesn't do much but make you frustrated.

     
  • merlgerl posted at 5:59 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    merlgerl Posts: 234

    That's funny cuz it's true!

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 5:58 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    I thnk having pot illegal is nothing more than a prohibition. It makes for corrupt police; lawBREAKING people, and a prison system overpopultaed with non-vilent offenders.

     
  • flattopramen posted at 1:07 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    flattopramen Posts: 140

    Hey wax power, based on your ignorant post I can positively assume a few things:

    1. You personally enjoy smoking cigarettes where children play and live.

    2. You are blind to the hypocrisy of the republican party and will mindlessly, yet fervently tout whatever it is you are told to be angry about this week.

    3. You often resort to immature name calling because you have nothing creative or original to say.

    4. Lonely

     
  • Humanist posted at 1:05 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    But, max power, do they support pot smoking in public parks and apartment buildings? Let's compare apples to apples shall we? Your logic would make some sense if you were saying that they supported legalizing pot smoking while criminalizing cigarette smoking. But, as usual, you aren't actually using logic when you think.

     
  • max power posted at 12:53 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    max power Posts: 559

    *** Calling All Libtard Pothead/Stoners-Come in/Over- (Do You Copy) (Do You Copy)? Over ***

    Libtard Politicians like to remind us that smoking is bad for us - especially second hand smoke! They have recently passed ordinances in Frisco and Santa Monica outlawing smoking in public parks and apartment buildings. Against that backdrop, however, they support pot smoking. Go figure...

    "Liberalism is a mental disorder" - Jack Hammer

     
  • greyhound2 posted at 12:44 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    greyhound2 Posts: 896

    As it costs taxpayers about $30.000 per year per inmate to warehouse someone in jail and about 50% of the population in the judicial system are there on drug charges, Washington voters have won in two ways.

    The property owners win with lower taxes due to not building new jails and all the costs of incarceration and the State can now collect new taxes to finance govennment programs. The losers are the growers, cartels, dealers along with law enforcement, courts and jailers who will now have to find something more productive to do. Victim-less and non-violent are not worth spending a lot of time and money on, as there are bigger issues to deal with. And prohibition didn't work either.

     
  • heatherfeather posted at 12:27 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    heatherfeather Posts: 297

    Spokesman-Review headline: Washington legalizes marijuana.

    CDA Press headline: KCSO approves 4 new K9 units.

     
  • Humanist posted at 12:24 pm on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    Quote DeNiles: "The stuff grows like weed" and " Already homegrown is entrenched and while a few will pay for the stuff, they will not be a majority of users."

    These two ignorant statements pretty much illustrate how little you actually know about the topic, DeNiles. 1. Quality pot for human consumption is difficult to grow and takes some skill. 2. Very few consumers, medicinal or recreational, of pot grow it for their own use. 3. Pot consumers are going to get it the easy way - buy it (legally or not). 4. A small minority of pot users will get into (or already have, the law hardly matters) growing it but it is much like the very small home brewing market.

     
  • chouli posted at 11:04 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1283

    I'd like to see the media take the voice of citizens more seriously. They find it just too tempting to make derogatory shots and make fun of the changes in laws.
    Alecia Warren "while this is a great step for stoners,..." Is that good journalsim, really??

    I'd like to see law enforcement be less arrogant, condescending and heavy handed..."They bring their marijuana and medical cards, and say, 'I've got a prescription for it,'" said Miller, with the Kootenai County Sheriff's Department. "And we say, 'Idaho doesn't recognize that at all,' and we seize that as well as anything else they might have."

    Idaho is between 2 states that have legalized marijuana, MT has medical mj legalized and WA has legalized it outright. CO also...with more states to follow suit. Perhaps marajuana shouldn't be on Idaho's priority list any longer. Aren't there bigger issues at hand?

     
  • chouli posted at 10:42 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1283

    WOW

    I presume the State will regulate it in much the same way as the regulation of alcohol. remember, there are all different types of alcohol, with differing percentages of alcohol.

    have you ever heard of home brewing, wine making and distilling??

    is smoking cigars or cigarettes good for anyone? this is different how?

    I'm thinking the drug tests will become more evolved to show concentration at any given time rather than exposure.

    "the only gains"...will be huge!
    the regulation and taxation of sales equals a huge new revenue for states, freedom from prosecution, ending the failed chapter of this war on drugs thus saving billions of tax dollars on the investigation & prosecution & incarceration costs, freeing up needed jail space for violent criminals, stop making criminals out of citizens...etc.
    Where exactly is the down side? It's already here.

    here's your real bias: "Who's watching the baby? Who cares about the baby? Limited income, but got money for dope? Gonna buy healthy food or not?" That scenario would never cross your mind if alcohol was substituted for marijuana...and you target the poor with your reference to "limited income, but got money for dope". everyone knows the poor are already the root of all evil...nice humanity showing.

     
  • chouli posted at 10:25 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1283

    perhpas you should review the dangers of alcohol...and then choose to make mj legal and alcohol illegal. not politically correct?? there's no reason to waste billions on the enforcement of archaic marajuana laws.

     
  • chouli posted at 10:18 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1283

    the drug testing is more for insurance liability purposes for businesses. the same rules should apply, you can't drink or use mj on the job. the testing will need to be refined to measure real time and not exposure.

    taking the criminal elements out of alcohol when prohibition ended will happen with mj also. legalize it, regulate it and tax it. there is no down side. the rest is fear mongering.

     
  • flattopramen posted at 10:04 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    flattopramen Posts: 140

    DeNiles:
    It would be taxed the same way we tax alcohol and cigarettes. The majority of stoners will buy it vs grow it. Just like most drunks don't brew their own alcohol. Prohibition is what led to the use of toxic ingredients in the bootlegging days, regulating the distribution is the only way to stop the crooked dealers lacing their products.

    Hmmm one type of pot is 10 times more powerful than another? Not really. Alcohol though has a wide range of alc % available, and we have no problem regulating that and where it comes from. Though I've read there are ways to make very potent marijuana concentrates, thus removing the need for smoking it altogether, which negates the long term health effects.

    The most important "gain" will be removing the profit margin that these drug dealers have been relying on for the last 30 years. It will no longer be profitable for these gangs to invest millions into their commercial growing operations.

    Ever notice how Idaho has no problem ensuring our cigarettes and alcohol are cheaper than in WA? Does the state really care about the health of it's citizens? Like the cartels, the state wants to maintain control over price and availability of it's drugs. Conservative America is missing the point here, as this all comes down to basic personal privacy and this is really something everyone should be able to agree to disagree on. You can smoke catnip and drink isopropyl for all I care, just do it in your own home.

     
  • calpurnia61 posted at 9:21 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    calpurnia61 Posts: 2

    Idaho needs to pull it's collective head out of is rear end. Read the millions of studies that have been done. Do the research before you spout off misinformation.

     
  • Betrayer of Hope posted at 8:27 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    Betrayer of Hope Posts: 135

    Gotta love the demagoguery and "it's for the children" BS. Alcoshol is more of a gateway drug than pot. Pot is only a gateway drug in the sense that it's illegal is most places so those getting it are exposed to all the other illegal drugs.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 8:22 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    Legalizing mj is a constellation of not-so-smart. Tax it? How? Gonna check everyones yard? Gonna trace very joint ever found? The stuff grows like weed - cuz it is. Already homegrown is entrenched and while a few will pay for the stuff, they will not be a majority of users. How soon before enterprising loady souls lace the stuff with other drugs?

    Gonna regulate it or monitor it? How? It stays in the body forever. Each plant offers up varying amounts of intoxicant concentrations. "Officer I just had one joint, really." Well one joint might be 10 times more powerful than another.

    Are the lung meant to intake smoke? Nope. Will they be harmed by people smoking cannabis or using cannabis aerosols? Yep.

    The only gains will be less people in jail (who will be out getting stoned BTW), maybe some less enforcement costs and fewer fisticuffs. Mexico drug cartels will not go away. They now have progressives thinking that cocaine and heroin are fun filled outings. There's plenty of crack addicts. Look for all forms of insurance rates to rise. Liberal America just legalized stuporous driving. Loaded on the job? Who's watching the baby? Who cares about the baby? Limited income, but got money for dope? Gonna buy healthy food or not?

     
  • Mark on the Park posted at 7:40 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    Mark on the Park Posts: 471

    Hey, thanks for the spam post Rawrface!

     
  • mister d posted at 7:40 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    mister d Posts: 1531

    I don't consider not wanting legalized mj as fear. I see it as intellegent individuals who have anzlyzed the situation and see the multiple disadvantages to legalizing another intoxicant and gateway drug as many studies have shown over the years.

     
  • CaiusCosades posted at 7:37 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    CaiusCosades Posts: 380

    Sadly this is Idaho which prefers to fight to stay in the stone ages. George Jetson will be flying around in his car over the Washington boarder while we're still strapping on our bonnets for church service at the prairie church house and picking up our $300 paychecks.

     
  • Sadbuttrue posted at 7:37 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    Sadbuttrue Posts: 105

    The ridiculous law-enforcement attitude expressed here is federally subsidized, in the midst of arguably the worst domestic crisis in history, with money borrowed from China. As we careen wildly toward the "Fiscal Cliff," as the severed artery of the Federal Deficit spews red ink like a demented fire hose, there will be intense pressure to eliminate absolutely worthless and destructive programs like marijuana enforcement.

    50,000 Mexicans murdered in cold blood by the marijuana cartels, many of them beheaded and their body parts severed and rolled out onto disco dance floors to send a message to horrified onlookers is probably a sign that we need to declare Victory in the War on Drugs and go home.

    Many millions of non-violent offenders, the lives of an entire generation of young black men permanently ruined for no good reason, incarcerated at a rate that would make the Founding Fathers turn over in their grave, incarcerated at a rate that would make ruthless gangster satraps like Syria, China and Iran blanch, is probably enough to declare victory and go home.

     
  • SamuelStanding posted at 7:35 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    SamuelStanding Posts: 588

    These are interesting times we live in! I too have no problem with a NEW revenue source. It is funny that as certain political groups call for less government, this is one area where government oversight would be required. And what people do forget, most companies have a drug testing policy, during employment and prior to being hired. If you cannot pass the drug test, you won't get the job. I did read a statistic that just by Colorado passing this referendum, the Mexican drug cartel will be losing something like $1.4 Billion in profit.

     
  • Rawrface posted at 6:34 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

    Rawrface Posts: 1

    Why don't we just start legalizing it everywhere? Why are so many people still stuck in this FEAR stage...? Stop worrying, start hoping. LEGALIZE IT!

    If you live in a state where Marijuana isn't legal yet and still want the same type of highs, I suggest checking out uIntoxicate.com. It has amazingly detailed legal highs reviews and where to get them without getting ripped off!

    CHECK IT: http://uintoxicate.com/

     
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