KCSO may drop Boy Scouts charter - Coeur d'Alene Press: Local News

KCSO may drop Boy Scouts charter

Sheriff says group promotes lifestyle in violation of state law

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Posted: Saturday, May 25, 2013 12:00 am

COEUR d'ALENE - The Kootenai County Sheriff said Friday that he is compelled to drop the department's Boy Scouts of America charter because the organization is promoting a lifestyle that is against state law.

"It would be inappropriate for the sheriff's office to sponsor an organization that is promoting a lifestyle that is in violation of state law," Sheriff Ben Wolfinger said.

Sodomy is against the law in Idaho, he added.

"I have talked with Chris Peterson about this and sent him a copy of the law," Wolfinger said.

Peterson, who works in the Hayden office of the Inland Northwest Council of Boy Scouts, could not be reached for comment on Friday, and Tim McCandless, CEO of the Inland Northwest Council, said he wanted to talk with the sheriff before commenting specifically to his concerns.

"I would encourage you to read the resolution that was passed, however." McCandless said. "Sodomy is not allowed in scouting and is not an issue in this discussion."

Boy Scouts of America voted to open its ranks to openly gay boys on Thursday during the National Council's annual meeting at a conference center not far from Boy Scout headquarters in suburban Dallas. Of the roughly 1,400 voting members of the council who cast ballots, 61 percent supported the proposal drafted by the governing Executive Committee. The policy change takes effect Jan. 1.

In the resolution that was passed, it states: "Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether homosexual or heterosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting"

While the National Council said the ban on openly gay adult leaders is still in effect, Wolfinger said media reports indicate that the Boy Scouts will eventually lift that ban as well.

"It's in USA Today, this just opens the door to having openly gay scout leaders," he added.

The Inland Northwest Council addressed that issue in a statement released on Thursday: "A change to the current membership policy for adult leaders was not under consideration; thus, the policy for adults remains in place ... As the National Executive Committee just completed a lengthy review process, there are no plans for further review on this matter."

McCandless was quoted in the same statement saying: "While people have different opinions about this policy, we can all agree that kids are better off when they are in Scouting. I believe good people can disagree and still work together to accomplish great things for youth."

The Associated Press reported Friday that out of the more than 100,000 Scouting units in the U.S., 70 percent are chartered by religious institutions.

Those include liberal churches opposed to any ban on gays, but some of the largest sponsors are relatively conservative denominations that have previously supported the broad ban - notably the Roman Catholic Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Southern Baptist churches.

The Utah-based Mormon church - which has more Scouting troops than any other religious denomination - reacted positively.

"We trust that BSA will implement and administer the approved policy in an appropriate and effective manner," an LDS statement said.

Utah's largest Boy Scout councils supported the change.

"This is a win for youth and a win for the community," said John Gailey, spokesman for the Utah National Parks Council, which covers central and southern Utah. "It gives all youth the opportunity to take advantage of the values instilled by Scouting."

The National Catholic Committee on Scouting responded cautiously, saying it would assess the possible effect of the change on Catholic-sponsored Scout units.

- The Associated Press contributed to this story

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176 comments:

  • SenoritaBonita posted at 12:33 pm on Sun, Jun 2, 2013.

    SenoritaBonita Posts: 1

    Dumb dee Dumb Dumb ~sodomy laws were struck down in 2003 I 'de Ho

     
  • gregd posted at 2:20 pm on Sat, Jun 1, 2013.

    gregd Posts: 1

    a) The sodomy laws did not just cover homosexuals, it banned all oral and (*cdapress banned word*) intercorse . Is there something special about a young boy who is attracted to other males which makes them more likely to engage in oral intercorse than one who is attracted to females?
    b) "consenting adults" can be 16 year olds in Idaho depending on the other persons age. "adult" in this context is not the traditional age of majority but the age of consent.
    c) ALL intercorse with persons below the age of 16 is illegal in Idaho. Why would he support hetro only boy scout troops if they were having intercorse with females which would also be illegal.
    d) Being attracted to an individual doesn't mean you are having intercorse with them. Being "homosexual" does not require you to be sexually active.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 12:46 pm on Sat, Jun 1, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    God better get himself a good lawyer. It's somewhat bizarre to allow your children to be tortured, murdered and to die from horrible diseases of your own creation *and* claim to be be righteous. I think I counter claim is in order. God must be stopped before we all die!

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 10:45 pm on Thu, May 30, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    don't know what to say. You may win in man's courts like Slick Willy, but you will not prevail against God's righteousness.

     
  • Humanist posted at 8:37 am on Thu, May 30, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    Apparently you did not even take the time to read the first paragraph in the link that towie posted. YOU need to do your homework.

    Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003),[1] is a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court. In the 6–3 ruling, the Court struck down the sodomy law in Texas and, by extension, invalidated sodomy laws in thirteen other states, making same-sex sexual activity legal in every U.S. state and territory.

    Has it sunk in yet?

     
  • cougar posted at 7:53 am on Thu, May 30, 2013.

    cougar Posts: 230

    towie

    You and people like you the keep bringing up Lawrence_v._Texas are the ones that need to do their homework.
    That ruling by the Supreme court involved Texas, not the whole U.S. and it was for the benefit of GAY CONSENTING ADULTS. Boy Scouts are minors, not CONSENTING ADULTS.

    Has it sunk in yet?

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 11:19 pm on Wed, May 29, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    No doubt important parts of any society, but also at extreme risk of getting AIDS.
    Same goes for notables who contract syphilis.

    Check out Six Feet Under to see how messed up relationships can get without a moral compass.

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 11:15 pm on Wed, May 29, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    Let's call it Corporate Social Responsibility. Toe the line of your corp. will suffer great loss.
    Not a good thing!

     
  • towie posted at 4:28 pm on Wed, May 29, 2013.

    towie Posts: 2

    This is all about the BSA losing corporate funding due to their discriminatory policies. One the one hand, they want the corp dollars. On the other hand, corporations won't give to discriminatory organizations any more. The BSA needs to put on their big boy pants and decide who they are and what they want to be. It is hard to think of an organization like theirs being discriminatory in 2013. The world won't have it anymore.

     
  • towie posted at 4:22 pm on Wed, May 29, 2013.

    towie Posts: 2

    Seems as though the writer is not a good researcher. All sodomy laws in the US were struck down in 2003. Any decent journalist should know this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas
    So we have a sheriff who doesn't know the law and we have a journalist who doesn't do his homework. Nice.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 2:30 pm on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Scout Law - A Scout is...
    Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful,
    Friendly, Courteous, Kind,
    Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty,
    Brave, Clean, Reverent

    That sounds kinda gay to me. Friendly, Cheerful, Clean... Sounds like every gay man I ever met. Perhaps the Scout Law should be refined so it's no so appealing to gay males?


    Revised Scout Law - A Scout is...
    Sloppy, Rude, Unorganized,
    Uncultured, Bad at Decorating, Illiterate,
    Styleless, Not very musical at all, Tobacco Chewing

    That should do it, don't know any gay dudes who would want to be part of a group like that.

    Better idea, let's stop acting like it's 1950 and acknowledge that Gay people are important members of society and deserve to be treated without discrimination.

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 2:25 pm on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    Y

     
  • Mahiun posted at 1:21 pm on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    What part do you believe a gay scout would be unable to fulfill?

     
  • Mahiun posted at 12:36 pm on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    You've come a little closer to getting the point than before, but you're still not there....

    NO ONE needs to know if a member is gay.
    And NO ONE needs to know if a member is straight. But they're probably going to find out, just in the course of casual conversation --- and until very very recently, that would have been enough to prohibit a potential scout from joining, or to have a current scout expelled.

    Example:
    Near the end of a troop meeting....
    LEADER: Now remember, the campout is next weekend, but you need to be ready to go by Friday at noon. So, any big plans for THIS weekend?! Paul, how about you?
    PAUL: Well, Saturday is Laura's birthday *and* the 1-year anniversary of us dating, so I've been saving up and and I'm going to take her to an extra-special dinner. It's expensive but.......I love her, and she's worth it!

    Absolutely no problem, in any Boy Scout troop. Never has been, isn't now, won't be under the new policy.

    Now, imagine the same basic scene with a very very slight twist to it....
    LEADER: Now remember, the campout is next weekend, but you need to be ready to go by Friday at noon. So, any big plans for THIS weekend?! Frank, how about you?
    FRANK: Well, Saturday is Larry's birthday *and* the 1-year anniversary of us dating, so I've been saving up and and I'm going to take him to an extra-special dinner. It's expensive but.......I love him, and he's worth it!

    Until recently, this perfectly innocuous conversation would be enough to get Frank kicked out of the BSA --- or refused membership, if he hadn't already joined. Does this help point out just how ludicrous, silly, and overreactive this whole policy has been?

    Their sexuality has NOTHING to do with the scouts, the scout oath and or rules.
    Exactly! That's it! By Jove, he's got it --- he's really got it!

    Their sexuality has NOTHING to do with the Scouts, regardless of whether that sexuality is heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, or even asexuality. And yet, for nearly a century, it has been used as a means of barring certain members and potential members --- even though, as you quite rightly point out, it has nothing to do with scouting. Now you're starting to get it.....

     
  • Humanist posted at 12:18 pm on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    Gee, where's the part about sexual orientation in the oath and law? Sounds to me like there would be absolutely zero problem with gay scouts or leaders. But you seem to be confusing the oath and the law with the actual BSA policies as they were stated.

    "While the BSA does not proactively inquire about the sexual orientation of employees, volunteers, or members, we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals "
    http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/MembershipStandards/KnowTheFacts/FAQs.aspx

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 11:35 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    Now I know you are going to want to pick it apart. There are no exceptions. You agree with ALL of the Oath or you go find an organization that agrees with you.

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 11:32 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    Logic Humanist? Read the Boy Scout Oath.

    On my honor I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country
    and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong,
    mentally awake, and morally straight.

    Scout Law

    A Scout is:
    Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful,
    Friendly, Courteous, Kind,
    Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty,
    Brave, Clean, Reverent

     
  • Humanist posted at 10:55 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    Man, concernedcitizen, you wouldn't recognize logic if it slapped you in the face. Previously, the BSA literally banned gay scouts and adults. BANNED. And the latter still are. That is regardless of whether they actually told anyone or not. You seem to want some hybrid Don't Ask Don't Tell policy instead while failing to realize that the gay person would still be BANNED under that policy.

    No one (including the BSA) has ever said anything about scouts learning about sex, being sexually active, experimenting, etc. We are simply talking about human being's sexual orientation and membership discrimination based on it.

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 10:17 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    No it is YOU Mahiun and Humanist that is still missing the point nor understand concept.. NO ONE needs to know if a member is gay. Their sexuality has NOTHING to do with the scouts, the scout oath and or rules. They are not there to learn sex nor should they be sexually active. These are children and if little jonny is experimenting he best not be doing it within the Boy Scout organization.

     
  • rf7777 posted at 9:42 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    rf7777 Posts: 1

    Personal views aside, it is absolutely amazing to me that this guy is so completely ignorant of the law. Idaho's antisodomy law was voided 10 YEARS AGO. This moron printed up an old invalid law and sent it to the local BSA charter. Somebody needs to print up the Lawrence v Texas SCOTUS decision and send it to the guy. A disgrace to his badge.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 8:51 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    This still misses the point.... (I realize that is a long-standing tradition on these comment threads, but nonetheless....)

    Why wouldn't a 15-year-old boy want to join a club that most of his friends belong to? Why wouldn't he want to share in an experience that he hears them talk about with enthusiasm? Why wouldn't a teenager be eager to "belong", rather than being made to feel even more isolated, ostracized, and awkward than every teenager already feels?

    This is not about "hav[ing] to let everyone know that they are gay". This is about not having to hide the fact that they are gay from everyone. This is about it simply not being an issue, one way or the other. This is about Paul, who is straight, and his best friend Frank, who is gay, both being in the same Boy Scout troop, having a great time and learning a lot --- and everybody around them simply saying, "That's great, that they're really enjoying scouting like that!", instead of pursing their lips 'til they disappear and frantically hunting for something to be shocked about.

    But, the Boy Scouts of America have changed their policy to allow gay scouts. So, let me ask you this:

    "Why would anyone want to join a club of any kind if they do not agree with nor want to abide by the Oath and or rules? ... If you do not agree with or want to abide by the rules, DON'T FREAKING JOIN."

    And one more time, because there are still some folks who have not yet caught on:

    The central point here is not whether any BSA sponsor has the right to withdraw support --- of course they do. The issue is the reason that Wolfinger gave: a violation of law. This is flat-out false; he will need to find some other reason to implement his personal distaste for the BSA policy change (if he is even authorized to do so on behalf of the entire department); this "reason" doesn't hold up.

     
  • Humanist posted at 8:47 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    Your NAMBLA reference is way out of line in this context Rev and you know it.

    The only people I see expressing misery her are folks like you, DeNiles and concernedcitizen. We'd all be a heck of a lot happier if you'd all stop this bigoted nonsense.

     
  • Humanist posted at 8:18 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    You really don't understand the concepts of equality, oppression and discrimination do you?

     
  • PacerToo posted at 8:12 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    PacerToo Posts: 105

    Interesting, KREM, KHQ and KXLY all pulled this story, and all the comments, from their Facebook pages this weekend!

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 7:17 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    Why would anyone want to join a club of any kind if they do not agree with nor want to abide by the Oath and or rules? Even Tiger Woods was kicked off of a golf course for cursing. How about Justin Timberlake, Clint Eastwood, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Tim Tebow, etc.

    This has NOTHING to do with a kid being gay. THEY are the ones that have to let everyone know that they are gay.

    If you do not agree with or want to abide by the rules

    DON'T FREAKING JOIN.

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 6:10 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    the Boy Scouts got their start with a Mason. That is a religious group, ya know...to "I will do my best to do my duty to God and Country"

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 6:08 am on Tue, May 28, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    they are equally proving themselves bigots.

     
  • DaveChamberlain posted at 10:58 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    DaveChamberlain Posts: 17

    Sodomy is done by both sexes. It is not exclusive to Gay Men. I am sure a lot of scout leaders practice Sodomy, not necessarily with the same sex, but sodomy just the same. So Wolfinger is right to pull support to the BSA because the some heterosexual men have had Sodomy with their Wifes/Girlfriends/mistresses and FWB.

    This sponsoring of a religious organization by a public entity is wrong, so go ahead and pull your support Ben ol' boy, because THAT is why you should be pulling support, NOT because an organization said... Hey these are kids we will allow NO sexual contact with each other or Adults.

    So, for the BSA, I say cool. If the parents feel that they fear someone not of their sexual confused way of thinking that they must prevent their boy from learning about the fun of scouting.. (which I hated with a passion...) then let them go. They can start their White Idaho Male Youth League of hate your fellow man because he is not like you club.

    When @Deniles and @MarkCDA show their continual fear of Homosexuality, I can't help but think of the saying " I thinks thou protestith too much"

     
  • local res posted at 10:22 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Randy I am not sure if it is the majority who speaks, just the glad crowd.

     
  • local res posted at 10:17 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Parent I agree with you. Ben thank you for having the courage to stand up.

     
  • local res posted at 10:16 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Now it will be females who state they are being discriminated as they are not allowed in BSOA.. BSOA is over and out.

     
  • local res posted at 10:14 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    What does morally strait mean?

     
  • local res posted at 10:13 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    BSOA is finished it has about sexuality.

     
  • NIDDMD posted at 8:45 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    NIDDMD Posts: 3

    What a relief it is to know that there are people out there that have some common sense (not referring to the Sheriff - in case you are wondering)...and then there are the unfortunate individuals who have ignorant branded on their forehead and every word that they write (see prior messages).

    The issue of the Boy Scouts shouldn't even be an issue. It is not a matter of gay rights - it's a matter of human rights and the path towards equality for all people. Does that sound familiar North Idaho --- equality...treating people equally...it wasn't that long ago that our region was embarrassed by the ridiculous nonsense and discrimination by our white hooded residents.

    Don't think that's a fair comparison? Well just as you cannot pick which race you are...you don't choose to be gay and you certainly cannot change it. How do I know? I grew up here on a small farm where every other derogatory comment included the "gay hate word". I grew up hating myself for something that I couldn't change. I was gay and that was that. I can assure you that there wasn't a select moment where the decision was put before me and I thought "oh what the heck - maybe I'll be a homosexual and subject myself to hatred the rest of my life".

    The reality of the situation with the BS is that there are ALREADY gay kids participating in the program - they just choose to be silent. Ironically, the same situation exists right here in our own community. You are SURROUNDED by thousands of gay people every day - they are your neighbors, co-workers, politicians and maybe even a friend that just hasn't shared that portion of their life with you. These are real people who deserve every other human right that any heterosexual enjoys.

    I find it strange that everyone wants to use homosexuality as a scapegoat for child molesters, disease, etc. because if I look back on my own life I can tell you that it was HETEROSEXUALS who have caused me the most hurt...who threw hammers at my mom and beat me...who were addicted to every drug imaginable...who lied, cheated, stole...who raped young girls. Seems to me that it's a lot easier to pass the buck than own up to the fact that EVERYONE contributes in a negative and positive way to society.

    A lot of the comments on here are about religion...everything always comes back to religion. What I find interesting about this is that many (not all) who are so passionate about their religious beliefs try to recruit you to find God and join the church so HE can save you. Gay people aren't trying to recruit you (it doesn't work that way)...we just want to live as an equal. In the same right - you should have the right to participate in whatever religion you want, just don't try to recruit me. I am a firm believer in God and the relationship I have with my faith is for me to choose.

    One important thing to remember is that your sexuality is only a portion of who you are as a person...A PORTION. So what gives us the right to deny equal treatment based on just a portion of who a person is? I have lots of friends that have a portion of their life that I don't agree with...but I still love them...care for them...hmmm...seems like something they should teach in church - or even the Boy Scouts!

    Instead of trying to deny homosexuals from living the same life you do - equal treatment and all - maybe embrace it and befriend them. I know some of those churches could use a new interior designer and let's not even get started with your not-so-fabulous Sunday attire!

     
  • Humanist posted at 4:02 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    Quote LOVEINTHELORD: "Jesus Christ, whom I follow, was clear in His condemnation of sexual immorality,"

    What did Jesus Christ, specifically, say about homosexuality?

     
  • Mahiun posted at 3:55 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    Well, if we're bringing religion into the Boy Scouts Brew, that creates even more problems, not least for Sheriff Wolfinger.

    To begin, the BSA is not a specifically religious organization, not even a quasi-religious organization. Although it has required, and continues to require, some form of devotion to spirituality from its members, it does attempt to teach, impose, evaluate, or require any specific dogma or theology.

    This rather quickly leads to the inevitable question of which "god" should be in charge, then. And since the BSA has accepted non-Christian faiths among its members for nearly a century, it is clearly not the Yahweh of Judaeo-Christian traditions. (N.B.: which is also an effective answer for those religionists who cry, "Why don't gay kids just go start their own scouting groups?!", since there are already multiple specifically Christian scouting groups and it would be just as valid to ask why these people cannot simply send their progeny to such groups rather than insisting that the BSA remain exclusionary.)

    So, what about the multiple religious denominations that do not have a problem with homosexuality? Are these religions then to be shut out of the BSA? On what grounds? If Frank's religion condemns homosexuality but Joel's religion accepts it as non-problematic, on what basis does one religion "trump" the other? The answer, of course, is that neither trumps, and we must look to see whether there are objective, fact-and-evidence based reasons for excluding gay youth from the Boy Scouts of America. As it happens, there are no such objective, fact-and-evidence based reasons. Hence the change in policy....

    Historically most religions did not accept homosexual behavior and most did incorporate their own particular inscribed condemnations of the practice.
    You are once again exhibiting a provincialism and Western chauvinism, Niles. There is no way to know about the religions of prehistoric humans, because they are.....well, prehistoric. I am aware that you did use the qualified 'historically", but even there, your statement is not entirely accurate.

    It is overwhelmingly within the Abrahamic desert religions that this proscription is found. So-called "Eastern" religions are much more varied in their attitudes toward homosexuality, and Hinduism -- one of the oldest surviving religions on Earth -- contains no proscriptions against homosexuality. Many forms of paganism readily accept it, as does Wicca (in both the Gardnerian and Alexandrian forms of Wicca). Likewise, Satanism. And Unitarian Universalism. And Pantheism. And Grego-Roman polytheism.

    You have also completely discounted, or simply ignored, the many varied forms of Native American religion and spiritualism, the majority of which not only accepted but revered their "two-spirit" members as particularly holy people who walked between both worlds, the physical and the non-physical.

    It is simply not accurate to state that "most religions did not accept homosexual behaviour". Many of them did, and do, up to and including actually incorporating it into certain rites within the religion itself. Even the Roman Catholic Church included a rite for the blessing of same-sex unions, right up to medieval times when the church began to realize that it was missing out on grabbing a sizable chunk of inherited property, since same-sex union didn't produce progeny. PRESTO, same-sex unions suddenly became anathema, as soon as the church realized they didn't produce loot for the church!

    And today, there are multiple mainstream religions that are quite accepting of homosexuality even to the point of ordaining gay or lesbian clergy. How mainstream? Well, how about the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America? Quakerism? The Episcopal Church of the USA, which includes a liturgy for the blessing and solemnization of same-sex unions? The MCC (considered a mainstream ecumenical Christian faith)?

    Your sweeping generalizations, although passed off as objective fact, are actually nothing of the sort....

    Homosexual behavior was recognized then, and remains today, a failed instinct.
    Once again, you are attempting to masquerade personal opinion, speculation, and supposition -- all of it contrary to available evidence -- as fact. "Disingenuous" would be the kindest term one could apply to this attempt....

    Today homosexuality is seen as more of an unfortunate sexual maladaptation....an acknowledged reproductive cul-de-sac, a dead-end street.
    Only by the willfully ignorant, and/or woefully ill-informed. Which camp do you fall into?

    But, back to Sheriff Wolfinger: if anyone wants to try to make the case that the Boy Scouts of America is an explicitly religious organization, then s/he must also be prepared to explain why a governmental unit -- the Kootenai County Sheriff's Department -- was supporting it in the first place, in direct violation of the 1st Amendment?

     
  • livinlarge posted at 3:40 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    livinlarge Posts: 29

    I am not a bible thumper or a religious person so don't go there with me. But those of you who continually make fun and bash others religious beliefs are sure making you look like your missing something in your lives. I really do not see that making me feel better. But to each their own.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 3:31 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2988

    Been there, done that, found it lacking.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 3:25 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2988

    "That many of todays religions remain stoutly against homosexuality only reflects a very lengthy continuity of human perspective on the topic"
    If true, it is not the only reflection. It would also reflect the continued bigotry, closed-mindedness, and shallow thinking that has prevailed in nearly all religious doctrine.

     
  • yourneighbor posted at 3:17 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    yourneighbor Posts: 224

    Yep DC God even loves you. Maybe you should give God a chance. To someone like yourself this should be a really easy question to answer....... What do you got to loose?

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 3:00 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "Earth is in the final battle for supremacy by man over the unknown"

    Was that from the Planet of the Apes?

    If we're all going to die soon, don't see why folks are making a big deal outta letting the gay kids go camping. Seems like Christian time is better spent building arks or feeding the hungry.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 2:55 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "Sorry Golden my friend but God is Greater than bacon"

    Not sure I would feel right ordering two strips of God on my hamburger.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 2:50 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    Historically most religions did not accept homosexual behavior and most did incorporate their own particular inscribed condemnations of the practice. With the possible exception of Buddhism homosexuality did not meet with favor among the ancients. And this was for very understandable reasons. Homosexual behavior was recognized then, and remains today, a failed instinct. That many of todays religions remain stoutly against homosexuality only reflects a very lengthy continuity of human perspective on the topic. It is not a behavior to promote.

    Today homosexuality is seen as more of an unfortunate sexual maladaptation or even a genetic anomaly. But it still remains an acknowledged reproductive cul-de-sac, a dead-end street. And this is the proper definition of that circumstance - an abnormal sexual orientation.

    And it merits treatment as such. Where parents would not present their children to known situations of heterosexual predation and they would not readily adopt any with the potential for homosexual predation. Responsible parents would not let the football team babysit their cheerleader daughters trusting the teams 'promises' of good behavior. Co-homohetero sexual camp outs is no different. It is foolish to think otherwise.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 2:42 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2988

    "or the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God."
    If there is righteousness in God, what mad did or did not do would have little bearing.

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 2:15 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    This has been the first generation of the Tribes of Jacob to have been reunited in Jerusalem and the lands originally conveyed by God after the Exodus led by Moses. In fulfillment of Jesus' prophesy, the fig tree has budded and is quite green today. Those returned from 2,000 years of exile are facing danger from Syria and Iran, but they will not be defeated. This reality would sober anyone who understands the times in which we live. Sadly, it falls on your deaf ears.

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 2:10 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    NIce try, but no winkie button for your HREI Boyz Scout banner.

    Hosea prophesied in the Northern Kingdoms circa 730 BC. Those tribes had engaged in the immoral practices of the Canaanites. They were sacrificing their children in the fires of Molech. HREI and the Northern Tribes would find NO FAULT with each other.

     
  • LOVINTHELORD posted at 1:23 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    LOVINTHELORD Posts: 3

    I acknowledge that same-sex attraction is a sensitive issue which requires kindness, compassion, and understanding… Not exclusion and discrimination. .My position is clear: Sexual activity should only occur between a man and a woman who are married. However, that should never be used as justification for unkindness. Jesus Christ, whom I follow, was clear in His condemnation of sexual immorality, but never cruel. His interest was always to lift the individual, never to tear down.In short, I firmly believe that all people are equally beloved children of God and deserve to be treated with love and respect. I hope this answers your question.James 1:19-20

    Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 1:00 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2988

    "Earth is in the final battle for supremacy by man over the unknown"
    That....well, it's just silly.
    "We are nearing that stage of man's history,"
    In 2000 years, how many times have we heard this gobbledygook?
    Rev, you need some new material.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 12:51 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2988

    Confusing...Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels." Seems god doesn't love everyone

     
  • Humanist posted at 12:48 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    Sometimes it can be a little tough to read between the lines (or whether one should) to discern what a person's true beliefs and feelings are. What is your personal opinion on gays in the BSA?

     
  • whatwillbe53 posted at 12:36 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    whatwillbe53 Posts: 178

    KCSO has every right to restrict its membership just as HREI does. I extend the invitation of fellowship to all who are afar off. I have only met one on these boards. The rest of you choose to blather from behind your keyboards and condemn what you do not KNOW!

    Whether you believe in the Divine Creator or not, America is falling...just as Rome did. We were warned against arrogance and trust in politicians by Philip Freneau in 1792. You might want to arm yourself with minimal Truth by reading his Rules for Changing a Limited Republic into an Unlimited Hereditary Monarchy. Hegalian Material Dialectic maintains progression through history as: thesis - antithesis - synthesis. America will be assimilated into a One World Government that will oppose all that reflects the Divine Creator.

    Earth is in the final battle for supremacy by man over the unknown. It surprises me that Atheists and Progressives wage war against True Believers while embracing Muslims and other unfaithful religions.Why waste time fighting over something you believe does not exist???

    As for our Divine Creator, He has appointed a day of final reconciliation. We are nearing that stage of man's history, and it is intimately intertwined with the affairs of Israel as prophesied. Judah vowed to rebuild greater and stronger in defiance of God's warning. America likewise followed Israel's defiance after 9/11. Isaiah 9:10 details that defiance and the exile following. America will not face exile, rather she will grind to a painful halt without a funeral dirge being penned. The merchants of the world will only regret her lack of buying lifeless junk from abroad and a tremendous sum of money poorly invested. Few wish to consider the import of the Holy Scriptures.

    Too many put their faith blindly in the man in the pulpit as a mediator between them and God. That is what I call religion and unbelievers would deem false religion. Jesus did away with all mediators and the sacrificial system when He fulfilled the requirement for a perfect sacrifice. It is time for men of faith to abandon the institutional church and come out unto their Divine Creator. Those who refuse to believe would be wise to try the real thing one time. Neither will be disappointed.

     
  • LOVINTHELORD posted at 12:25 pm on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    LOVINTHELORD Posts: 3

    Humanist YES is the answer to your question. We as Christians are not to judge but to simply love our fellow man. Sometimes those so called Christians don't practice what they preach. God loves everyone of us regardless. Have a GREAT day .

     
  • Humanist posted at 11:56 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    Do all of those things being possible only via God also include loving, accepting, not oppressing and not being bigoted towards your fellow human regardless of their sexual orientation?

     
  • LOVINTHELORD posted at 11:39 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    LOVINTHELORD Posts: 3

    Sorry Golden my friend but God is Greater than bacon.
    Matthew 19:26
    Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”


     
  • Screen Name posted at 11:38 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 972

    Bacon makes everything taste good, even El Diablo.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 10:56 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    ...if any of their scouts or scout masters engage in sodomy with members of the opposite sex.
    I wonder how he plans to find out??!!?

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 10:48 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Bacon is good too...

     
  • Mahiun posted at 10:33 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    Any time someone begins a statement with "FACT:", it's a pretty safe bet that the one thing that absolutely will not follow is... a fact. I see Niles is doing his utmost to keep this tradition going.

    Scary how urgently our Mahiun wants gay freedoms in the BSA.
    I am not "your" Mahiun. I am not anyone's Mahiun, not even my partner's. No one owns me; I am my own man, thank you very much.

    But yes, I do get pretty fired up about seeing that justice is done. I do believe that justice delayed is justice denied. I can get rather a sense of urgency about seeing that it is done swiftly and equitably, without needless and pointless hassle, delay, and bogosity (false, trumped-up, emotion-based, groundless, bogus excuses for not taking action).

    Scary how urgently -- and how continually -- Niles wants to ensure that justice is not done.

    FACT - Gay men are attracted to males.
    This is the only portion of that entire paragraph that is actually fact. The remainder of the statement, "That is what excites them - ALL of them - every single solitary gay man is attracted to the male physique in peculiar and unhealthy ways.", degenerates quickly into lurid purple prose offering nothing more than opinion, speculation, and supposition, wrapped in hyperbole and disingenuously passed off as "fact". Once again: the ONLY factual portion of that entire paragraph is the statement, "Gay men are attracted to males,", which rates a whopping "So what??!" in response.

    There is also an implicit assumption here that every gay male is attracted to every other male under every circumstance, in every context. (That same "straight man's arrogance" I spoke of earlier, by which they all seem to assume that every one of them is so devastatingly sexy as to be irresistible....) This is utter rubbish, and no more true than claiming the same thing about every straight male feeling the same way about every female he encounters.

    Moreover, it assumes that even if such attraction should exist, gay men somehow lack the self-control not to act upon that attraction. Do straight men jump every single female they may find attractive?!

    FACT - All members of the BSA are males in their formative years looking for trusted guidance and comradeship.
    This is not a fact. Some members of the BSA are the leaders providing that trusted guidance, leadership, and comradeship. And some of those leaders are gay. Right now. With or without any "official" policy on the matter.

    But again, we are dealing with rather snarky implication here, not an explicit statement. implication is that gay men are incapable of providing sound guidance, leadership, and comradeship. If you believe this, Niles, then grow a pair and say so outright --- and provide evidence to support your claim!

    FACT - Not all gay men are pederasts. SOME of them are. They have an entire organization dedicated to pederasty. According to NAMBLA if some underaged boy wants 'freedom' they'll gladly oblige. How do they find out which ones want such freedoms or not? Where would they go looking for such opportunities?
    NAMBLA??!!? Seriously, NAMBLA??!!? Oh, Niles, I truly expected better --- even from you!

    NAMBLA barely exists, at this point, and is estimated to have fewer than 900 members (the number must be estimated because the remnants of the group have largely "gone underground"), across the United States and Canada --- and you know that very well, as this point has been made countless times before, in these very discussion forums. NAMBLA is not a gay organization; it has been actively repudiated by every major GLBT advocacy organization for decades, with the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) going so far as to issue a statement saying, "[GLAAD] deplores the North American Man Boy Love Association's (NAMBLA) goals, which include advocacy for sex between adult men and boys and the removal of legal protections for children. These goals constitute a form of child abuse and are repugnant to GLAAD." The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force has issued a similar statement, saying, "NGLTF condemns all abuse of minors, both sexual and any other kind, perpetrated by adults. Accordingly, NGLTF condemns the organizational goals of NAMBLA and any other such organization."

    NAMBLA is/was a front for criminal sexual exploitation of underage children. And let's be clear here: such activity is criminal, regardless of the genders involved, when it involves underage children. It is for this reason that any and all sexual conduct among scouts, or between scout leaders and their charges, is prohibited --- and this will not change.

    Some gay men are pederasts. But many, many, many, MANY times more straight men are, statistically. You're taking a far bigger chance by sending Susie to school in sing in treble choir led by Mr. Straight than by sending Johnny to an overnight campout with Mr. Gay, who grew up in scouting, is a former Eagle Scout himself, and has devoted his career to the Boy Scouts of America.

    FACT - Stand Mahiun next to an avowed member of NAMBLA and you cannot tell which one of the gay men is the avid pederast. One of them (may) be safe and the other seeking any lustful opportunity to shoot fish in a barrel (so to speak).
    Again with the snark, Niles??! I "may" be safe??! Pederasty has nothing to do with healthy adult sexual relationships, and virtually nothing to do with the sex of the child. In the overwhelming majority of pederasty cases, the sex of the child is largely irrelevant; it is the child's youth that is the attractant, the fact that the child is not fully formed and not fully sexually mature. But to the extent that convicted pederasts do have any kind of adult sexual orientation or relationships, they are overwhelmingly heterosexual --- into the high 90's percentiles.

    In a nutshell: you have no case, you're aware of that, and you're starting to clutch at increasingly flimsy straws....

    FACT - The BSA does not need to include any professed gays to operate. They have operated just fine for quite sometime without the Rainbow Nancy Brigades. Adding known gays into the BSA will only add layers of unwanted and unneeded concerns.
    This is not fact, it is opinion, speculation, supposition, and.......still more snark. If you truly felt you had a strong case here, I suspect you would find the snark unnecessary.

    The BSA has not operated "just fine", not at all. They have forced some of their members into the untenable position of either having to lie and hide, in violation of their Scout Oath, or be honest and be jettisoned, although they may have in fact been exemplary scouts in every other way. This is anything but "just fine"!

    And again, let us be clear here: the Boy Scouts of America were not "forced" to change this policy. As a private organization, they cannot be "forced" to do so. They were pressured to do so, yes --- because the public they ostensibly serve saw clearly that there was no good reason not to change it. But they were not, and could not be, "forced" to change the policy.

    FACT - One episode of abuse that could have been avoided is one too many. Why chance it? Is it not wiser to be safe than extremely sorry? No sane parent would put their child in such peril.
    Then you'll want to pull your child out of public school, and make sure never to send them to confession. Oh, and no sleepovers with best friends. Or......well, any public contact of any kind at any location or any venue or any circumstance in any context ---- because a wild-eyed pederast could be lurking behind any corner, tree, lamp post, or produce aisle. Heck, they're probably lurking behind EVERY corner, tree, lamp post, or produce aisle! The only safe and sensible thing to do is to wrap your children in thick cotton, keep them locked away in a closet with no outside contact, and feed them through tubes!!! Have you thought about simply changing your name to "Perry Noia"? It might save a lot of time....

    FACT - If gay boys want to join the BSA for what the BSA offers to all young men then they do not need to be known as gay. Sex from any perspective is not part of the BSA curricula or experience (yet, anyway).
    Well, this one at least approaches fact. No, they don't need to be known as gay. But conversely, there's no reason they should have to hide it, either. There's no reason a Boy Scout should have to be known as straight, either. But if Paul wants to mention the great date he had with his girlfriend Janet the other night, and that he'd like to invite her to his Eagle Scout Court of Honour, then there is no good reason why Joel should be prevented from mentioning the great date he had with his boyfriend Daniel the other night, and that he'd like to invite Daniel to his Eagle Scout Court of Honour.

    WHY are gay men so determined to play an open role in the BSA? Why is that so important?
    Why is it so important that they not be permitted to do so? So far, all you have offered is a lot of scare tactics with absolutely zero fact-based evidence to support them. All that's at stake here is honour and honesty: gay men and boys are already serving in the Boy Scouts of America. The boys, at least, will finally be able to be honest about it.

     
  • chilada01 posted at 10:23 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    chilada01 Posts: 180

    God is good and the Devil is bad.

     
  • Humanist posted at 10:10 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    Just sayin'

     
  • coexist posted at 9:47 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    coexist Posts: 17

    A letter from my friend's son:

    My son walks over to my desk and hands me a flyer about a Cub Scout informational meeting. "Should we go?" he says, in his slow, choppy speech. "Warren is a Cub Scout."

    Warren is a Cub Scout. Warren is also one of my son's favorite classmates, an incandescent boy with a big smile and a bigger heart. And while my son has made several such friends by the end of second grade, they have a hard time imagining that the kid with the ankle braces would be good company on a play date. Scouting could be a key social outlet for him.

    On one hand, I tell him, the Boy Scouts have a history of fully including scouts with disabilities. Many have made Eagle, including one local boy who, for his service project, built a storage shed for the physical therapy clinic he has attended all his life. On the other hand, the Boy Scouts do not allow gay people to participate--not as scouts, not as leaders, not as volunteers.

    My kids are both staring at me. They've grown up in the San Francisco Bay Area. They've never heard of such a thing.

    But a few weeks earlier, in April 2012, Jennifer Tyrrell has been ousted as a den leader by the Boy Scouts because she is a lesbian. I show the kids an NBC News story where Tyrrell cries as she worries that the boys in her troop will think she abandoned them. Scout executive Bob Drury, meanwhile, steadfastly maintains that "individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals" can "distract" from the Boy Scouts' mission: to develop character and leadership.

    The kids want to know why the Boy Scouts have this policy. We talk about how people have a variety of beliefs and values. We also talk about how prejudice often emanates from fear of someone different than you.

    My son's lower lip is in full pout. He takes a breath.

    "I have gay aunts," he says.

    "Yes, you do," I say.

    "Why would anyone be afraid of my aunts? They don't have a gun."

    He's not climbing up on a gun-control soapbox. He's just a 7-year-old explaining that his aunts are not scary. They aren't trying to give him a flu shot; Voldemort isn't hiding in their hallway; and they don't have a gun. They have two jobs, a mortgage and a beautiful baby girl.

    But Warren is a Cub Scout.

    "Should we go?" my son asks again.

    I leave it up to him.

    He stands there, eyes downcast, for a minute. Then he walks over and puts the flyer into the recycling bin.

    On Thursday of this week, a year after our conversation, the Boy Scouts voted to allow gay youth to participate in Scouting--but not gay adults. My son says that's not good enough. He will miss out on the camping trips, the friendships, the sense of achievement. But I don't think he needs the Boy Scouts to teach him character.

     
  • Screen Name posted at 9:43 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 972

    If it is not natural, why does a male dog try to mount another male dog? Because the dog made a decision to be gay?

     
  • Humanist posted at 9:25 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3224

    I hope that Sheriff Wolfinger is also seeking to have every BSA charter drop their affiliation if any of their scouts or scout masters engage in sodomy with members of the opposite sex.

     
  • cougar posted at 8:30 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    cougar Posts: 230

    PLAIN AND SIMPLE..........

    If you are gay or if you believe there is nothing wrong with being gay, then you have a mental problem and need to seek help.

    There is nothing natural or moral about same sex individuals wanting to have sex together.

    If you have ever witnessed a male dog trying to mount another male dog, the aggressive dog is going to get bit every time. It is a little disconcerting to think that animals have more intelligence than some of these people. '' Then again............maybe not ! ''

    Stick to your guns Ben.

     
  • Screen Name posted at 8:07 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 972

    DeNiles says "FACT - One episode of abuse that could have been avoided is one too many. Why chance it? Is it not wiser to be safe than extremely sorry? No sane parent would put their child in such peril."

    OK then, what are your thoughts on how to stop female teachers from sexually abusing male students? Mandate same sex teacher and student classrooms?

    OK then, what are your thoughts on how to stop male teachers from sexually abusing female students? Mandate same sex teacher and student classrooms?

    OK, what are your thoughts on how to stop Catholic Priests from sexually abusing children? Ban churches?

    We know all these types of incidents have happened on numerous occasions. DeNiles says: "One episode of abuse that could have been avoided is one too many. Why chance it? Is it not wiser to be safe than extremely sorry? No sane parent would put their child in such peril."

    Due to the number of incidents of abuse described herein, there must be a whole 'lotta insane parents out there who put their children in classrooms with opposite sex teachers and take them to church.

     
  • brentandrews posted at 7:46 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    brentandrews Posts: 105

    Awesome outpouring of commentary from the people - and actually only a little bit of sniping. Good story, good comments.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 7:44 am on Mon, May 27, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    Scary how urgently our Mahiun wants gay freedoms in the BSA....... I swear he is drooling on his keyboard desperately seeking support for his personal goals.

    FACT - Gay men are attracted to males. That is what excites them - ALL of them - every single solitary gay man is attracted to the male physique in peculiar and unhealthy ways.

    FACT - All members of the BSA are males in their formative years looking for trusted guidance and comradeship.

    FACT - Not all gay men are pederasts. SOME of them are. They have an entire organization dedicated to pederasty. According to NAMBLA if some underaged boy wants 'freedom' they'll gladly oblige. How do they find out which ones want such freedoms or not? Where would they go looking for such opportunities?

    FACT - Stand Mahiun next to an avowed member of NAMBLA and you cannot tell which one of the gay men is the avid pederast. One of them (may) be safe and the other seeking any lustful opportunity to shoot fish in a barrel (so to speak).

    FACT - The BSA does not need to include any professed gays to operate. They have operated just fine for quite sometime without the Rainbow Nancy Brigades. Adding known gays into the BSA will only add layers of unwanted and unneeded concerns.

    FACT - One episode of abuse that could have been avoided is one too many. Why chance it? Is it not wiser to be safe than extremely sorry? No sane parent would put their child in such peril.

    FACT - If gay boys want to join the BSA for what the BSA offers to all young men then they do not need to be known as gay. Sex from any perspective is not part of the BSA curricula or experience (yet, anyway).


    WHY are gay men so determined to play an open role in the BSA? Why is that so important? Mahiun says 'sex' is not part of the BSA, but he's furiously determined that homoSEXuals be given a distinct recognition in scouting. Why?

     
  • Mahiun posted at 11:45 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    My word! I'm not sure when, where, how, or why rational thinking on this subject became so unfashionable, but clearly, it has! An awful lot of fuzzy thinking to wade through here, but let's see what we can make of it....

    First, it bears repeating and clarifying: Ben Wolfinger's right to withhold his personal support for the BSA's policy change has never been in question (although as an elected official, his authority to do so on behalf of the entire department, a unit of the County of Kootenai, is less clear). It is his stated reason and rationale that are false and flawed. He cites a violation of law as his reason for withdrawing support, but there is no violation of law in the BSA's modified policy, and Sheriff Wolfinger really ought to have been aware of that. He will need to find some other rationale to justify his personal prejudices; this one won't work.

    Now, DeNiles seems to be strongly implying that sexual misconduct is the inevitable and invariable result of having gay adult leaders in scouting --- that every gay man is simply incapable of controlling himself in the company of young boys, and that every adult gay male is going to find every male of every age irresistibly attractive. (Side note: I will never understand what it is about straight men of all ages that makes them so insufferably arrogant as to think that no one could possibly resist them --- but that's another story....) Why he believes this to be the case is never made clear, nor is any actual supporting evidence ever presented. But there are further flaws in this argument:
    [*] There is no change to the existing policy prohibiting openly gay adults from participating in or volunteering for the Boy Scouts of America, so there will be no openly gay scoutmasters to either prove or disprove DeNiles' delus----- errr, theories. Such a policy change was not even up for consideration, according to press releases from the BSA itself. That policy change may come in time --- probably will come, in fact --- but at the present time, it is not under consideration. Indeed, that is what creates such a schizophrenic and disingenuous situation: the BSA will permit a gay youth to advance all the way through scouting, serving as an exemplary model of all scouting has to offer and taking the reins in the leadership roles required to attain Eagle Scout rank, and then tell that same boy/man that he is unfit to be associated with the organization, upon reaching his 18th birthday. It is a completely bizarre and nonsensical policy, but it is the policy in place, which means that there will be no openly gay adults in the Boy Scouts of America.
    [*] "Safety of our youth" is clearly not the motivation behind this policy, as the "no gay adults" policy also applies to lesbians. If the concern were merely to ensure that there would be no sexual advances made toward the boys of Boy Scouts, it's difficult to imagine how they could possibly be any sexually safer than under the care and supervision of lesbian women, yet they are also prohibited from serving the Boy Scouts of America.
    [*] DeNiles and several others seem to assume that gay scouts and scout leaders have never before existed, because they have never before been acknowledged. There are already both gay scouts and gay scout leaders, yet the reports of inappropriate conduct are quite rare --- rare enough, in fact, that reports of inappropriate teacher/student relationships involving female teachers and their male students are much more frequent, despite DeNiles' assertion that it is only males who are sexually aggressive. (Which does cause one to wonder why the terms, or even the concepts, of the "cougar", the temptress, the femme fatale, or the dominatrix were ever born....??!)

    DeNiles is absolutely correct on one point, however: the Boy Scouts of America is not a sex club. Nor has it ever been. Nor will no longer denying membership on the basis of sexual orientation change that. As has already been pointed out, this confuses sexual orientation with sexual conduct or behaviour. As the BSA itself has pointed out, sexual conduct or behaviour, regardless of the sexual orientation or gender of the parties involved, is prohibited to any boy of scouting age while he is active in the Boy Scouts of America. DeNiles once again fails to provide supporting evidence to explain why he believes this rule is going to be so much more difficult for gay youth to comply with than it is for straight youth....

    There is no desire for gay youth to "infiltrate" the Boy Scouts of America --- they're already there! All that has changed is that now they can be honest enough to say so, and uphold the Boy Scout values of honesty and trustworthiness that they took an oath to uphold, instead of having to lie about who they are, in violation of that oath. That is truly, honestly, literally the only thing that has changed!

    And that is what makes the cries of, "Go start your own; we don't want you!" that much sillier. That sentiment is not what the BSA is all about, and it's not what America is all about. All these boys want is the opportunity to share scouting and the learning and growth opportunities it affords with their friends, just like every other boy who joins the Boy Scouts. So the point is that there shouldn't have to be a separate Boy Scouts for gay youth or left-handed youth or red-headed youth or jow-IQ youth or not-very-athletic youth or "whatever" youth. The point is supposed to be that the Boy Scouts are teaching America's boys how to be honest, honourable, trustworthy men who can work together with all different kinds of people, some of whom they may disagree with or not even like, but with whom they can share common goals and common efforts to achieve those goals --- and isn't that how society itself is supposed to work??!

    These are not "gay Boy Scouts", these are "Boy Scouts who happen to be gay".

     
  • ScoutParent posted at 11:01 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    ScoutParent Posts: 3

    Let the mass exodus begin. What a waste!

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 8:05 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Well said! :-)

    20-30 years ago I had a lot of respect for homosexuals as they were ashamed of the problems they had and stayed in the closet.

    I'm sure the true homosexuals are still there and ashamed of what the homosexuals extremists have done and forced upon other people, news, TV, public conversation, marriage, boy scouts... it's just a well orchestrated attack that will never end. We need to fight back as hard as they fight. We need to fight for our lifestyle and our way of life!

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:57 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Ben just found a legal way to get out of supporting homosexuals in anyway. Has nothing to do with all the points you made even if they are accurate? Who cares! He is standing up to the assault from homosexuals on OUR lifestyle!

    Just as I stopped supporting UPS for their decision.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/ups-boy-scouts-america-donations-anti-gay-policy_n_2118878.html

    Been preaching this to everyone in town and FedEx has received a lot of new accounts. Last total was over $30,000 a month is shipping fees from CDA area! GO CDA!

    UPS decision also boosted their local donations to Boy Scouts by WAY more then they would have lost !

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:46 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Just as I stopped supporting all orginazations who dropped sponsership for Boy Scouts because they were opposed to not allowing homosexuals in.

    What Ben did was Great! It is the same as all the other supporters who dropped scouts for the other reason...

    UPS stopped supporting boy scouts because they would not allow homosexuals in. People took a stand and used other companies. If UPS comes to my house they are turned away! Sorry, don't want your business.

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:42 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Boy Scouts are not hypocrites! They never wanted any homsexauls. They were forced into this decision.

    Their is no obsession with sex and animals, it's a point of where to draw the line, or which line is crossed next?

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:38 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Every dollar KCSO spends says "In God we trust" !

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:32 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Gay is a beautiful word stolen from our language and applied to homosexuals. This makes them label themselves as a good thing instead of a sexual deviant.

    So what all homosexuals are not pedophiles? They don't have the basic human instinct to have sex and relations with the opposite sex, so who knows what else they think is acceptable?

    Why do homosexuals want in Boy Scouts? It's basic foundation and moral beliefs are totally against their lifestyle.

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:19 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Boy Scouts is about raising a young man. It has always been done by good men. There are positions held by good women. A young man needs to be raised by a man and a women. Just part of the nature of things.

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:17 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Starting a comment with an insult is another good diversion tactic used by liberals, left, homosexuals to avoid the topic.

    The word homophobic would meen we are scared of them. We're not. We just don't want to have anything to do with them and want OUR lifestyle left alone!

    Why must they intrude on all aspects of our lifes? Can't they do anything for themselves?

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:14 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    We are afraid of bad influence on our children! This is why we spend time with them and get them involved in morally found groups like Boy Scouts.

    If homosexuals want to live a deviant sexual life? That's there problem. They are free to start their own scouts. Leave our morals and lifestyle alone!

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 7:10 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Good diversion! Has nothing to do with this subject though?

    You started off good with supporting your childs interest. If they thought they were homosexual maybe a psychologist counseling is in order to find out why? Most have been abused and molested as children.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 4:43 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "... not to normal people"

    Being unique is normal.

     
  • justinian posted at 3:05 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318


    Better watch over your shoulder. Be afraid, be very, very afraid.

    Ah yes, the old qu33r manifesto.

    Touch our kids and be afraid, very very afraid.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • justinian posted at 3:04 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318


    Next will be lesbians in girl scouts.

    Been allowed for some time. Not good. Membership declined by almsot one third after they did that.

    They embrace Planned Parenthood and the whole qu33r agenda. Parents who care have opted out for years now.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • justinian posted at 2:58 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318


    Having boys together that are attracted to the same sex, showering together, sleeping together, being alone on camp outs makes NO SENSE.

    Well, not to normal people. Elton John supports this though, as do all of the left wing sex manaiacs.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • COG777 posted at 2:00 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    COG777 Posts: 341

    Having boys together that are attracted to the same sex, showering together, sleeping together, being alone on camp outs makes NO SENSE. Parents need to look at the situation as sending boys and girls off together......what you allow your daughters or sons to do with those that have sexual attractions towards each other do together? Would you allow them to shower together and expect nothing to happen? We live in a world gone mad!

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 2:00 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    "This is a win for youth and a win for the community," said John Gailey, spokesman for the Utah National Parks Council, which covers central and southern Utah. "It gives all youth the opportunity to take advantage of the values instilled by Scouting"

    Seems that Utah has it figured out. If the Boy Scout lifestyle is so desirable, why not let everybody participate? Doing so will only improve society.

     
  • LTRLTR posted at 1:58 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    LTRLTR Posts: 1171

    Just for information...I am not promoting the sinful acts of gays or lesbians. Their judgement will come for their decisions.

     
  • LTRLTR posted at 1:55 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    LTRLTR Posts: 1171

    Good comments cc! If they are allowing gay children to enter the boys scouts than there should not be any limits to transgender kids, gay or transgender adults or any girls that want to experience the opportunities offered the scouts. Or Boys should be allowed in girl scouts to they can sell cookies.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 1:51 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "Biologically some are borne with a propensity for alcohol addiction"

    You mean that they didn't choose to be that way, they were born that way?


    Re: "... by definition I have thwarted the biologic propensity to be addicted"

    Even if they're not drinking, alcoholics are alcoholics. Also, I'm straight, even when I'm not having sex. Same goes with a gay person.


    Were you trying to help me prove my point?

     
  • justinian posted at 1:44 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318

    ""Evil" is subjective and contrived."

    Only to left wing loons.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 1:27 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2988

    "The tide of history is against those who embrace evil."
    "Evil" is subjective and contrived. W

     
  • Frankie posted at 1:15 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    Frankie Posts: 14

    Ah yes, our Right, spreading peace, love, tolerance and forgiveness as usual.

     
  • myhome posted at 12:45 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    myhome Posts: 73

    It seems to me what "we" all want for our children is the opportunities for them to learn, explore and have all that life has to offer in the safest environment possible. Through active involvement (as ones parent) you will be supporting your child's interests along with overseeing their safety. It's the children who have absent, drop you off/see you later type parenting protocol are the ones who are at the greatest risk. Ones fears come from the "unknown" and if you think by placing a label on it it makes it all clear...your wrong!
    Example: One Fall evening a man took it upon himself to get into his pickup and seek out a victim. He assaulted, kidnapped, sodomized and raped a young girl; all because his football team had lost that night. At the time he was a husband and a father of two boys who lived among you in the Cd'A/Post Falls area. The Press had described him in an article (at the time) as, " the father of his neighborhood".

     
  • justinian posted at 12:44 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318

    The old oath:

    On my honor I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country
    and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong,
    mentally awake, and morally straight.

    The new oath:

    On my honor I will do my best
    To do my duty to my country
    and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong and
    mentally awake.

    No God, no morality, no way.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • justinian posted at 12:31 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318

    Lawrence et al v. Texas does not overturn all sodomy laws, only those in which consenting adults are prohibited from engaging in private sexual activity.

    Sodomy can still be prosecuted in most state courts when one of the participants is underage or unable to give informed consent or both.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • justinian posted at 12:31 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318

    Lawrence et al v. Texas does not overturn all sodomy laws, only those in which consenting adults are prohibited from engaging in private sexual activity.

    Sodomy can still be prosecuted in most state courts when one of the participants is underage or unable to give informed consent or both.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • justinian posted at 12:30 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318

    "Adults should fret about the safety of their children."

    They do. In Canada they fretted so much that most took their children out of scouting. In the ten years after they made this mistake, BSC scouting enrollment fell from 300,000 to 130,000.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • justinian posted at 12:28 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    justinian Posts: 318

    The goofy left thinks they won with this horrific decision by the BSA. Then they think everyone has to agree with them. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

    First, the BSA will learn what the Canadian Scouts learned - queers drive away the normal majority.

    In 1998 the Canadian Boy Scouts (BSC) disposed of any requirements for filling the proven mold of wholesome scouting and destroyed Boy Scouting altogether.

    Their board of governors “decided to admit females, atheists, agnostics, homosexuals, bisexuals, and transsexuals into scouting.”

    In the following ten years BSC scouting enrollment fell from 300,000 to 130,000.

    Second, the left will learn that they are a minority. 60% of the Governors are conservative, most state legislators - well more than 60% are as well. School boards, City Councils, County Commissions are all going to get to choose - as did Sherrif Ben - and they will.

    The tide of history is against those who embrace evil.

    Just sayin'

    Just

     
  • Ziggy posted at 12:10 pm on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    Ziggy Posts: 1295

    I've heard some utterly silly statements in the last week, but Wolfinger's takes the cake. Can I take back my vote for him? He sure as heck won't get it next time.
    I didn't choose to be born redheaded. If I had been born a century and more earlier, I would have been considered less than human, being Irish as the Irish were scorned in the early days of this country.
    It's time to stop discrimination. The boy scouts isn't about sex at all. But it should not discriminate as to membership against those who are gay or reheaded or brown skinned.
    What are you people so afraid of? It begs the question: are you afraid of everyone who is different than you or are you afraid of not being different from those you hate?

     
  • Nick_gsxr750 posted at 10:38 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    Nick_gsxr750 Posts: 1

    Nothing says good morning like bacon and eggs with a heaping side of homophobia.

    This morning as I was getting ready for work with my usual routine of getting dressed, eating breakfast, deciding whether today I would be gay or straight, I decided to catch up on some news. Clearly there's "recruiting" to be done so I made the conscious choice to be gay.

    The Sheriff has every right to his opinion. I even think he has the right to partake in anything he so choses (legally) in his personal time. That being said when he is acting as sheriff, he needs to check his opinions at the door. It would also probably be in his best interest to learn the constitution...I don't know maybe not but it's probably a good idea.

    There are far too many redo culprits comments to address however to reply to some of the most absurd, DeNiles, I will agree with you that some gays are pedophiles, I will also remind you that some straights are pedophiles. So as you suggested for the gays, I think it's best that we also keep straight leaders out as that is clearly the only way to ensure pedophiles won't be around the children.

    I would also like to point out that gays are all around all of you. In the school system, in the law enforcement agencies, they are your mail carriers, bus drivers, doctors, coaches, teachers, students, they play sports, they join the military, they even take showers after PE. Oh the horror. Looks like the gay agenda to take over is right on schedule.

    Watch out before you know it they will be asking for the right to vote and pay taxes!

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 9:16 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    "katiesmom posted at 7:00 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    I am not quite sure how saying all gays are not pedophiles translates to a man watching over my daughters while camping, but milburnschmidt seems to see a connection. Never in scouting is a man watching over anyone's daughters, gay or straight. Idiots? I rest my case."

    Sorry but THAT would be discrimination, the very thing you are fighting.

    If you can have a woman scout leader, a gay scout leader, gays in scouts, GIRLS in boy scouts then you DAMM sure have to accept a boy in girl scouts and male girl scout leaders.

     
  • Screen Name posted at 9:14 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 972

    In your opinion, all males are sexual aggressors and not all gay males are pedophiles. I assume you would agree that not all hetero males are pedophiles. Therefore, by your logic some hetero males are pedophiles and all male hetero pedophiles are sexual aggressors.

    Under your scenario, how could you ever endorse any male high school teacher having female students or any male coach of high school aged athletes coaching females under the age of 18? Would not these scenarios expose females to sexually aggressive males who may be pedophiles? How could we as a society allow such a thing to happen?

    This does not address female teachers having sex with male students. This is a problem as well. How do you suggest this be stopped?

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 9:06 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    DCIDAHO posted at 3:29 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Who gives a rats patooty what the bible says. It's no more the word of some god than Time magazine is, perhaps less so. No group like the BSA should be using the bible as a guide anyway.

    No group? What a load of BS. LMBO OK, all of you church groups and religious organizations out there, listen up, you can no longer use the Bible as a guide for your organization by the orders of DCIDAHO. How about the UGM that feeds the homeless? They pray before meals. Why don't you shut them down?

    The BSA was and IS recognized as a moral AND Christian group. If you do NOT like the rules don't join.

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 8:56 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    Mahiun wrote "The Boy Scouts are such hypocrites.
    Here, we agree. But I sure can't follow the rest of the "thought" process!"

    Then WHY do you want to join? If the boy scouts are such hypocrites why would a gay want to join? OH OH, wait, I got it...........because gays are JUST as hypocritical.

    Go start you OWN gay scouts if you do not like to rules.

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 8:50 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    Ben "Homophobic" Wolfinger weighs in and spends time on something that he should just let slide while there are plenty of crimes out there that need solving.

    Why Randy, I thought you were above calling names. You blast everyone else for doing it then do it yourself.. WOW

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 8:43 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530


    I think I will petition to have the rules of football changed to be that of baseball. No one can ever play football like football ever again. How about that new country club down town? I think they should be playing rock and roll. Do the "GIRL" scouts accept boys?

    This is freaking ridiculous. If you do NOT like the rules of the club, DON'T JOIN.

    Why don't the gays just have their OWN gay scouts? Everyone should be accepted as a person but I do NOT have to accept ANYONE'S lifestyle choice.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 8:01 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    It is not a matter of 'all' gay males being pedophiles. But some most definitely are. How do you separate them? Obvioulsy if the BSA opens their doors to inviting overt homosexuals some of those men or boys will purposefully engage the organization for the opportunity to abuse. It will happen.

    So how many Sandusky's will be considered acceptable? NONE is the correct answer. Doing the best to achieve NONE is the only sane course of action.

     
  • 4limitedgov posted at 7:59 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    4limitedgov Posts: 27

    "I assure you, nobody chooses to be gay."

    What a ridiculous statement. Because we have hermaphrodites, I will concede the possibility for a biological basis for certain proclivities for certain persons. Surely some are just perverts that are beholden to no sense of morality (how would you explain being bi-sexual other than just being interested in any sex?)

    Biologically some are borne with a propensity for alcohol addiction. If I never let my propensity for alcohol consumption interfere with my responsibilities and relationships, then by definition I have thwarted the biologic propensity to be addicted. We all choose to control how we live our life, the morality of it aside.

     
  • 4limitedgov posted at 7:42 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    4limitedgov Posts: 27

    Spot on DeNiles. What are we doing to children, and society for that matter to force them into identifying with a label. If someone claims to be a gay young male, they must be kept out of the BS. That was the brilliance of Don't Ask, Don't tell. It basically said the act of being gay - a predatory lifestyle for many - is not acceptable. The minute we say that this is okay, then somebody is going to be preyed upon.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 7:04 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    How sad this discussion is. Adults should fret about the safety of their children. Look at the topics covered in this thread. The Boy Scouts are not a sex camp. Why are gay males so intent on capturing this 'boy' venue that ranges in age from prepubescent to adulthood?

    Males are the sexual aggressors. Ask any female. We see this in nature. Males pursue, they fight for the right to mate and hold harems. Our youngsters in these clubs should not ever be put in any vulnerable position of being fodder for homosexual exploration if they are heterosexual (and most of them are heterosexual). Adolescence is difficult enough without having to fend off some misguided tent mate or worse, an adult who has been give authority to provide you counsel and ensure your safety.

    We would not comingle sexually active males with vulnerable females. These are not sex clubs. They are learning clubs that need to be secure and focused, not distracted. Why invite confusion? Why tempt the young homosexual libido? There are young heterosexual boys that will be viewed as defenseless. Will they become targeted and coerced to keep it quiet? Why risk any of this? Why are gay males so intent on being given the opportunity to groom young Boy Scouts? Why throw a match into a building of unlit fireworks?

    It is not a massive reach to look into the future and regret this decision to openly invite gay males to shop the Boy Scouts for playmates. It could become a very real nightmare. I for one, would not let my sons anywhere near such a group. This is a very profound and very predictable wrong choice. It is not progression. It is regression, back to paganism, back to ancient Rome, back to slavery.

    Why are gay males so determined to pervasively haunt the Boy Scouts? Why does any kid want to own a candy store?

     
  • katiesmom posted at 7:00 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    katiesmom Posts: 19

    I am not quite sure how saying all gays are not pedophiles translates to a man watching over my daughters while camping, but milburnschmidt seems to see a connection. Never in scouting is a man watching over anyone's daughters, gay or straight. Idiots? I rest my case.

     
  • kimilauri posted at 4:21 am on Sun, May 26, 2013.

    kimilauri Posts: 2

    You better rethink that philosphy and give the Bible a second chance -- obviously you are not concerned where your soul is going after this life

     
  • Senibar posted at 11:52 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Senibar Posts: 1

    Lawrence v. Texas decided by the US Supreme Court in 2003 invalidates any Idaho anti-sodomy law. Either you folks have elected an idiot of a sheriff or a smart one that is counting on re-election via bigotry. If the latter, hopefully he is very wrong and the good citizens of North Idaho will make this delightful human specimen irrelevant.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 10:55 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: " I have no problems with gay boy scouts but in the leadership and supervising noway Jose"

    Gay leaders didn't work out for the Catholic church... Oops, sorry, my bad. Those priests were pedophiles, not openly gay men.

     
  • LTRLTR posted at 6:59 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LTRLTR Posts: 1171

    AMEN

     
  • LTRLTR posted at 6:57 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LTRLTR Posts: 1171

    You need to walk the talk Randy or stop the preaching about good discussions void of any attacks.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 6:12 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    Being the stalwart upholder of the law that he is, I feel quite certain that Sheriff Wolfinger is going to have his hands full prosecuting violators of all the other Idaho state laws governing sexual conduct:

    [*] Sheriff Wolfinger is no doubt aware that fëllātiô is illegal in Idaho, the penalty being lifetime imprisonment. I'm sure he'll be withdrawing support, any minute now, from any organization or event that would call for boys and girls being in the same place at the same time (and of course, that would include public schools as well as the Kroc Centre, shopping malls, public parks.....), since it could encourage this immoral and illegal behaviour. The KCSO is likely to be pretty busy rounding up offenders, and a good-sized chunk of the Kootenai County population appears destined to spend their lives behind bars.....

    [*] The state still has a law on the books prohibiting the use of......uhhh......"artificial replicas of the male member" (rhymes with "bill bow"). They are not to be used, distributed, or sold within the state --- not even in State Line! So the sheriff will no doubt be knocking on doors, search warrants in hand, and asking to inspect the back of your bedroom closet for any illicit "marital aids" --- since, after all, any law that's still on the books is completely constitutional, valid, up to date, and enforceable!

    [*] Sheriff Wolfinger will need to allocate a sizable portion of the KCSO to patrol Walgreens, Rite-Aid, and Fred Meyer to make sure that condoms are being sold only by licensed pharmacists who keep the condoms behind the prescription counter and the license out of sight of customers, as required by Idaho state law. No, you may NOT simply do self-serve and choose your own condoms from open stock on the shelves, to be rung up by the generic cashier at the check-out counter. No, it does NOT count if the store is licensed; you must buy your condoms directly from the licensed pharmacist, who must be able to show that s/he is licensed to sell condoms, upon request. It's the law!

    [*] Because Sheriff Wolfinger and his staff necessarily spend a good deal of time in Coeur d'Alene, he's no doubt aware of the 3-2-1 law within the city. A law enforcement officer who comes upon a car in which there might be some hanky-panky going on must honk his patrol car's horn three times, then wait two minutes, before approaching the car to make one inquiry.

    Of course, Sheriff Wolfinger is actively, aggressively, and equitably enforcing these laws throughout Kootenai County without regard to the gender or sexual orientation of the perpetrators, and seeking equally aggressive prosecution and sentencing --- because it would be unethical and inappropriate for a public office holder and a LEO to selectively cherry-pick an obsolete, unconstitutional, and unenforceable law to advance a personal vendetta against a particular segment of the society he is duty-bound to protect equally, under law......

     
  • LiveFreeOrDie posted at 5:55 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LiveFreeOrDie Posts: 2

    How does the county Sheriff, the leader of law enforcement for the country, not understand basic Constitutional principles? The Sodomy laws of Idaho have been null and void since 2003 (Lawrence v. Texas). It is NOT illegal to engage in sodomy in the state of Idaho.

    This is a basic principle that any citizen should understand. The fact that the sheriff doesn't is disturbing.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 4:54 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "Sodomy is against the law in Idaho, he added"

    The Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) polled thousands of people between the ages of 15 and 44 from 2006 through 2008 and found that 44 percent of straight men and 36 percent of straight women admitted to having done it at least once in their lives.

    Perhaps they should all be arrested and placed in a sodomy free prison?

     
  • milburnschmidt posted at 4:44 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    milburnschmidt Posts: 1160

    Talk about idiots at one time we separated sexes in gym,and restrooms and overnight camping so there wouldnt be abuses. All gays are not pedophiles but some gays recognise no age limit. Katies mom might be happy with a man taking her daughters on a trip but Im not. We should protect our children from those who could have a sexual interest in them How many incidents before its considered a bad idea. The armed forces are trying the same social expiriment and look how that is turning out. Amazingly the most victims are men fancy that and explain it. If we cant trust priests anymore and teachers sending a gay scout leader and like minded adults to camp and shower with the boys is idea that will lead to abuse and lawsuits down the road. Let the Sheriffs dept opt out of the headaches down the road to people with a ounce of common sense. You have to wonder why so many want to take a chance with human nature. Narrow minded baloney. A prominent coach just got exposed showering with the kids and gay boy scout leaders will do the same. I have no problems with gay boy scouts but in the leadership and supervising noway Jose.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 4:37 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Good thing that all of us don't believe that disconnected speculation has any influence on reality.

     
  • katiesmom posted at 4:23 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    katiesmom Posts: 19

    Just another idiot assuming gay means pedophile. I can't believe how narrow minded some people really are.

     
  • chilada01 posted at 4:21 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    chilada01 Posts: 180

    Good thing all of us were not born that way. If we were this would not even be a topic and the population would be zero.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 4:10 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    The Boy Scouts are such hypocrites.
    Here, we agree. But I sure can't follow the rest of the "thought" process!

    They want gay youth...
    It isn't a matter of "wanting". It's a matter of acknowledging that gay youth are every bit as capable as their straight counterparts of being brave, thrifty, clean, loyal, obedient, trustworthy, kind, courteous, thrifty, and reverent. Which, yes indeed, makes it even more bizarre and hypocritical to think that a gay scout would suddenly stop being capable of these, once he reaches his 18th birthday.

    Who as a parent would send their little Johnny on weekend camping trip with an openly gay scout leader.
    Probably, a parent who was smart enough, wise enough, and well-informed enough to realize that there was no reason not to....

    ...polygamy or beastality?
    What IS it with you people and this obsession about sex with animals??!!? Do you honestly get so little at home that you have to constantly fantasize about barnyard sex, to get your jollies??! ANIMALS CANNOT GIVE CONSENT!! Why is that such a $@%*^# difficult concept??!!?

    And I have yet to see a polygamous 13-year-old -- with the exception of some Mormon child brides in southern Utah....

     
  • myhome posted at 4:09 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    myhome Posts: 73

    @LTRLTR: I'm not against a "gay leader" teaching or sharing ones talents with another. Quit being short sided.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 3:52 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    I'd have to disagree with you there, DCIDAHO. The Boy Scouts are perfectly free to use the Bible as a guide if they so choose, but in that case, a governmental unit -- the KCSO -- had no business unconstitutionally sponsoring or supporting a religious organization in the first place, and the disassociation is long overdue.

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 3:41 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    Of course you'd miss the broader point LTRLTR. I dislike name calling and spewing. I LOVE clever sarcasm and rebuttal......none of which you ever provide.

    I am saying as far as gay scouts...live and let live. Exactly what is YOUR position ? Where do you stand on human rights? I mostly just see you being negative.

     
  • acid posted at 3:39 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    acid Posts: 45

    Thank you golden mean, I was going to ask this fine upstanding crowd when was the moment that they remember making the decision that they were strait. I'm guessing that all would say that they didn't make the decision that they just ARE strait. Well guess what folks it works both ways.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 3:36 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    Let's at least be clear about one thing, here: Wolfinger's right to withdraw support is not what's being questioned here. It is his reason for withdrawing support that is suspect....

     
  • Miketeague posted at 3:35 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Miketeague Posts: 2631

    I am quite surprised and very please to see that more and more people seem to understand that civil liberties is for everyone, for that I am grateful. I do fail to see why any sex between two consenting people is anyone’s business. I also fail to see why someone’s sexual orientation if at the age of scouts they even have one has to do with any scout activity. No one is going to make someone else gay no one is going to make someone else straight either. I am sorry to say that I voted for Ben. The only thing I can think of is he is planning on running for some other office and wants to shore up his support with the Nonini, Vieselmeyer Fanatics-R-Us groups. One more point; why is the religious far right so worried about sex and always want to bring animals into the conversations.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 3:29 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2988

    Who gives a rats patooty what the bible says. It's no more the word of some god than Time magazine is, perhaps less so. No group like the BSA should be using the bible as a guide anyway.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 3:23 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    I didn't choose to be straight, or left handed...

    Religious people are confusing. When I was a kid, folks said that God blessed me with the ability to hit a baseball, which I guess means that I was born that way. Same folks said that the "sissy" kid who lived a few houses down from my family choose to be that way. Based on the number of beating that the sissy kid received at the hands of the "sin hating" church kids, I can assure you, nobody chooses to be gay.

    Religious people are confusing.

     
  • CClavin posted at 3:09 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    CClavin Posts: 221

    I back Sheriff Wolfinger 100% thank you for taking a stand. The Boy Scouts are such hypocrites. They want gay youth, but draw the line at gay leaders (or so they say). Who as a parent would send their little Johnny on weekend camping trip with an openly gay scout leader. COME ON FOLKS pull you heads out of the sand and take a stand. Wrong is wrong. What is the liberal side going to support next,...polygamy or beastality? Those too are morally wrong.

     
  • LTRLTR posted at 2:53 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LTRLTR Posts: 1171

    myhome: If you believe that anyone should be able to learn and have personal growth...than allow gay leaders too. If people want gays to be gay than there should not be any limitations. Just think of all the un-natural possibilities?

     
  • kimilauri posted at 2:50 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    kimilauri Posts: 2

    Yes I agree with Ben Wolfinger. I think he is a wise man to take a stand against gays in the Boy Scouts.

    The Bible condemns homosexuality in any form -----Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

     
  • 2nd Class posted at 2:50 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    2nd Class Posts: 5

    God doesn't hate Gay people. God hates sin not the sinner. People are not born Gay the choose
    to be gay. Just like people choose to murder, choose to do drugs, choose to drink, choose to do
    whatever is against Gods word.

     
  • LTRLTR posted at 2:48 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LTRLTR Posts: 1171

    Randy: Sarcastic, mean...isn't that kind of talk what you complained about in the comment section and letter to the editor?

    How about walking the talk Randy?

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 2:39 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Why did God make gay people if God people don't like gay people because God people think that God doesn't like gay people?

     
  • will-- posted at 2:20 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1214

    "but everyone else is doing it" is a rather juvenile argument. Try telling that to an officer the next time your pulled over for speeding and see where it gets you.

    What Mr. Wolfinger should do is not beat around the bush and spell it out clearly, Homosexuality = disease ridden lifestyle choice, and we will not promote that.

    If you ever get to San Francisco, take a stroll down Castro street and see for yourself what 'self-restraint' amounts to as far as homosexuals are concerned.

     
  • ScoutParent posted at 1:52 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    ScoutParent Posts: 3

    Folks lets get this straight, The Troop in question will not be and I repeat will not be the only
    one to lose their charter as a Boy Scout Troop as a result of this policy change of the
    Boy Scouts of America. Any group has that right if it is not in line with their beliefs, by laws, etc. to
    pull or not renew their charter with any BSA Troop at the end of the year. It is a year by year
    agreement. I respect any group whether they decide to continue or not continue to keep chartering
    Troops. I think that people should stop bashing our Sheriff.

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 1:46 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    His reaction to the Boy Scout change is pretty self explanatory. I am sarcastic sometimes. I suppose that's "mean" but not near as mean as disavowing the Boy Scouts moving into this century.

     
  • myhome posted at 12:46 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    myhome Posts: 73

    My personal pet peeve is, "smart people who work at being stupid"!
    How shameful to be so mean-spirited and self-righteous where you deny children (or anyone for that matter) to learn and have personal growth among mankind.

     
  • LTRLTR posted at 12:46 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LTRLTR Posts: 1171

    Randy Myers,

    You have asked the Cda. Press over and over to control the nasty comments and reported people for their nasty comments.

    What facts do you have that Sheriff Ben is afraid of gay or lesbians or are you just being mean?

     
  • LibrulLizard posted at 12:41 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LibrulLizard Posts: 107

    Breaking news... Girl Scouts do not discriminate or recruit on the "basis of race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, national origin or physical or developmental disability".
    What make you folks so gosh darned focused on sexuality? Sexuality is completely irrelevant to scouting . Why do you insist on making it an issue?

     
  • LibrulLizard posted at 12:28 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LibrulLizard Posts: 107

    Sweetie, You have no idea how many "gays" you encounter every day. You may not know it because most - especially in this area - know how bigoted you are, but they are there. Better watch over your shoulder. Be afraid, be very, very afraid. After all, everybody knows that shaking hand with someone who is LGBTQ will taint you forever. You will wake up in the middle of the night and discover you have been infected - and there's no cure.

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 12:18 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    Ben "Homophobic" Wolfinger weighs in and spends time on something that he should just let slide while there are plenty of crimes out there that need solving.

    Mahiun makes a great logical argument and displays Wolfinger's illogic.

    SusanM is of course correct and displays more legal knowledge in one sentence than Wolfinger is aware of overall.

    I agree with the majority here who believe that the Boy Scouts have made the right decision.

     
  • LTRLTR posted at 12:17 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    LTRLTR Posts: 1171

    At least we do not have to worry about birth control as the straight and gays mingle in their tents.

     
  • May posted at 12:01 pm on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    May Posts: 1

    This is destining to know! We all need to get together and push this to national news. The world needs to know that a sheriff would do something like this to kids!

     
  • Screen Name posted at 11:52 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 972

    Good question. I suspect anyone of these people could answer it: http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/joanne

     
  • leitnermk posted at 11:44 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    leitnermk Posts: 17

    This makes me as ashamed of our community as having the Aryan Nations here.

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 11:32 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    Why shouldn't the sheriff detach itself from Boyscouts now that they allow homosexuals?

    UPS and many other companies did the same thing when homosexuals were not allowed in?

     
  • MarkCDA posted at 11:25 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    MarkCDA Posts: 15

    It's a shame the homosexuals can't do anything for themselves except tear down others and force their way of life on everyone. Ruining the church, marriage and boyscouts is part of the agenda. Just like stealing a beutiful word of Gay and applying it to themselves to be excepted as OK or normal? There's nothing about homosexual that is normal, it's a diesease they spread to ruin Gods way of life!

    I think the end of Boyscouts was started when the homosexuals wanted in, not now. Now that they are in leagally it will only further the dimise.

    Just the public discussion for homosexuals or even normal sex is not something that is part of boyscouts or normal discussion in churches, marrage or public conversation! Yet it is now forced on us as part of normal life.

    Targeting a group like Boyscouts is just part of the agenda, it represents everything about how a young man should be raised with morals and beliefs. Tearing it apart will make it easier for them to further the agenda.

    If that was not the point why would they not start their own gender confused scouts?

     
  • Cody Wiench posted at 11:18 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Cody Wiench Posts: 355

    I'm pretty sure the Boy Scouts aren't going to change anything about their mission to accommodate gays. The most of what will happen is that a kid who grew up scouting that realizes he's gay won't be kicked out for being who he is. Why are conservatives obsessed (and I do mean obsessed) with gay sex?

     
  • MixMart posted at 11:07 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    MixMart Posts: 1716

    In Idaho sex of any kind outside of marriage is illegal as is sex with anyone under 18. Should support for scouting also be withdrawn because Scouts are not married and/or may have sex before 18?

     
  • Peter posted at 11:02 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Peter Posts: 691

    If Ben does that the case will be brought to a federal court and that is where it will end setting a precedent to allow gays in the boy scout organization. This whole notion is simply ridiculous because the with or without gays in the scouts it is not going to change a single thing in the organization with regards to what the kids do. IAMWOMAN articulated the point very well.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 10:58 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5643

    SusanM (below) is spot on: there are numerous flaws and errors in Sheriff Wolfinger's position. But she is also right in saying that the most disconcerting of these is to have a Law Enforcement Officer so ill-informed about the law he is charged with enforcing.

    The first problem comes with Wolfinger's statement that "sodomy" is against Idaho state law. Sheriff Wolfinger appears to be somewhat confused here, evidently believing that any state law that is still "on the books" is therefore constitutional, valid and enforceable. This is not the case, as SusanM points out. The 2003 Lawrence v. Texas Supreme Court ruling rendered any and all such anti-"sodomy" laws null and void, as violations of constitutional protections of privacy. Whether or not these laws remain on the books is irrelevant; they are null and void, unconstitutional, and unenforceable.

    The second problem arises in Wolfinger's illogical and erroneous assumption that "sodomy" is synonymous with homosexuality, and vice versa. This is simply not true. Homosexuality ≠ "sodomy", and "sodomy" ≠ homosexuality. Many homosexual persons never engage in this practice and don't care for it. Many heterosexual persons do engage in it.

    Therefore, it makes no sense for Wolfinger to use this as the basis for his objections. If he wishes to use "sodomy" as the basis for his objections, then he would have to disallow any and all organizations, persons, and sexual orientations, since the practice is not confined to any one sex or sexual orientation.

    The third problem, related to the second, is to assume that sexual orientation is the same thing as sexual behaviour. Is Sheriff Wolfinger only heterosexual when he's "doing it"? Is a gay scout only gay when he's "doing it"? If so, then the solution would seem pretty simple: enforce the already extant ban on sexual activity --- of any kind --- during scouting activities. If not, if heterosexual is heterosexual and homosexual is homosexual even when not "doing it", then Wolfginer's position becomes even more irrational and unsupportable.

    The fourth problem is the assumption, apparently on not only Woflinger's part but on the parts of several other people posting here as well, that up until now, there have never been gay Boy Scouts. There is suddenly going to be unbridled sexual activity going on at every troop meeting, simply because gay scouts are now permitted simply to be honest and acknowledge that they are gay??!

    The fifth problem is the inconsistency and self-contradictory nature of the policy itself. A gay scout is fine, but gay adults are not. In other words, this person who may have devoted the first 18 years of life to the BSA, and been an exemplary scout, scout peer leader, and manifestation of every one of the best qualities of scouting suddenly becomes utterly unfit to have anything to do with the organization, upon reaching his 18th birthday.

    Because this nonsensical policy is extended to lesbian adults as well, it is clearly not the result of "concern for the safety of the scouts". It is bigotry, pure and simple. There is not enough lipstick on the planet to dress up this pig and pass it off as anything else.

    But it does tie back to Wolfinger's position on "sodomy", because it raises the question of the actual nature of his concern. Because "sodomy" is practiced by both sexes and all sexual orientations, is he proposing that all persons be banned from scouting, or is there some selective enforcement going on here?

    The sixth problem is the rather insulting implication that gay scouts and gay adult scout leaders are somehow incapable of self-restraint, in a way that straight scouts and adults are not. If sexual temptation is the issue, then the logical extension would be to ban den mothers for Cub Scout packs --- we can't have those predatory cougars around our vulnerable youth! Similarly, we would be called upon to ban any joint events where Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts might be in the same room at the same time. And of course, any co-ed bus trips to out-of-town athletic events would be verboten, because.....y'know......sexual temptation. The hypocrisy and blatant bigotry are really on display here, in assuming that --- for reasons unstated --- gay youth and adults, and only gay youth and adults, are incapable of self-restraint.

    As the head of the Kootenai County Sheriff's Office, Wolfinger is authorized to grant or withhold his department's sponsorship. But a unilateral decision on his part, based on a rather unsettling ignorance of the law he cites, to advance a personal agenda of bigotry and homophobia, calls into question his own standards of ethical behaviour that is "Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Courteous, Kind.....Brave".

     
  • my own opinion posted at 10:51 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    my own opinion Posts: 397

    Next will be lesbians in girl scouts. get your own clubs. gay is not a race so how can you say people are racist? Mexicans, blacks, Asian, have clubs but white and straight no way! that is racist. have your own tent buddy sessions earn your rainbow badge at bottom buddy sleepovers leave the other kids alone. you want to mix with the straight to have new meat and force your issues. get a "life" keep your messed up lifestyle to your own and stop fighting with the rest of us over your issues we were fine before you started messing up our places to meet and do fun stuff. get your own meeting places to do your different stuff you wont have trouble doing your weird lifestyle if people who want to be in your activities can join them rather be forced to be in them when already in an established group with the rules forced to be changed. get it?

     
  • IAMWOMAN posted at 10:35 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    IAMWOMAN Posts: 56

    Scout Oath

    On my honor I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country
    and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong,
    mentally awake, and morally straight.

    Scout Law

    A Scout is:
    Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful,
    Friendly, Courteous, Kind,
    Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty,
    Brave, Clean, Reverent


    I think morally straight means to be ethical and exemplify the Scout Law. I don't think it means to be heterosexual. There are no scouting badges that require sexuality. The values promoted in Boy Scouts reinforce the positive values taught at home, in church, at school, in sports, and other activities.
    Whether a person is gay or straight should be completely irrelevant to being a scout or in any other regard, actually. If a person feels compelled to advocate for their sexual orientation (straight or otherwise), that does cross a line and becomes inappropriate in many forums, including work and also scouting. In this day and age, one would think that society has evolved enough accept that the world is made up of many,many different kinds of people. Indeed we are all unique, and that is a good thing. If everyone were alike, how boring and stifling would that be? I support equal rights for all, women included. I think being gay should never have been a reason for exclusion in scouting. It should not matter. Are there others that some people in scouts think should be eliminated from scouting? Other religions? Other colors? Other sizes? Fat people are still okay to discriminate against because it is for their own good, right? ,,,not, As to the sheriff's position -wow, When was the last time someone in Kootenai County was arrested for sodomy?

     
  • ancientemplar posted at 10:30 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    ancientemplar Posts: 1287

    I think the US military neither encourages nor discourages sodomy, rather they just turn a blind eye to it.

     
  • Rpdcda posted at 10:28 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Rpdcda Posts: 2

    Good for you sheriff! Stay true. When organizations and companies change their views, supporters have every right to decide whether or not it aligns with their own views, or in this case, state law!

     
  • 3Cheers posted at 10:24 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    3Cheers Posts: 492

    Way to go Ben!!!

     
  • heatherfeather posted at 10:22 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    heatherfeather Posts: 297

    Hear, hear! What gays do with each other is their own business, but they constantly have to make it OUR business. It is all "ME! ME! ME!" to the self-serving gay activists. They never seek to improve anything, but love to ramrod their lifestyle on everyone. They are like a plague of locusts or some other pest. If we try to move away from them, they follow.

    I'm tired of hearing them whine. I don't care what you people do with your genitals!! I'm tired of hearing about it. I've stopped watching the idiot box since the gay tribe has taken over that medium.

    Forced acceptance never ends well.

     
  • Old Hayden posted at 9:24 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Old Hayden Posts: 33

    Kootenai County residents should be very disturbed when the sheriff uses his office to promote his own religious and political beliefs which are contrary to law.

     
  • voxpublicusidaho posted at 9:00 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    voxpublicusidaho Posts: 7

    Once again one of our elected officials takes a “wide stance” when it comes to homosexuality. Sheriff Wolfinger threatens to sever the ties between the sheriff’s office and the Boy Scouts because he fears that organization advocates sodomy. He says sodomy is against the law in Idaho. Wolfinger has one foot on the side of enforcing a law that the US Supreme court says is unconstitutional and the other foot supporting a law that is not enforced in Idaho. Has Kootenai County or the Sheriff ever felt “compelled” to enforce the Idaho sodomy law? Perhaps Wolfinger will feel “compelled” to withdraw his support from another organization. That is the US military which also must support sodomy, according to Wolfinger’s logic.

     
  • mister d posted at 8:54 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    mister d Posts: 1531

    Ridiculous stance Ben. The Boy Scouts are not promoting the boys having sex together in their tents anymore than they are promoting the scouts having sex with girls in their tents. This is an organization for boys to enjoy activities in an organized fashion and have some positive experiences. If you are so worried about gay scouts are you going to start getting rid of the closeted gay deputies patrolling our streets?

     
  • DeNiles posted at 8:53 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    I'd say we'll see tort sexual discrimination claims within 3 months.

     
  • will-- posted at 8:46 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1214

    The Boy Scouts decision is clearly a case of henhouse meet fox. Now that the moral voices of the organization have been run out, it's only be a matter of time until the pedophiles get their reward of being scout masters.

     
  • max power posted at 8:36 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    max power Posts: 559

    *** Boy Scouts Go Sissy ***

    Mahuin, Humanist & Golden Mean in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

     
  • parent posted at 8:23 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    parent Posts: 347

    I am pleasantly surprised that Ben Wolfinger would step up and speak up on this issue. Thank you!

    I would no more want boys sharing the same tent with another gay boy as I would a girl scout and a boy scout sharing the same tent. Having gay leaders would also be VERY problematic. Choices have consequences and to deny that is ridiculous!

     
  • Screen Name posted at 8:17 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 972

    Are you Chicken Little? You always seem to think the sky is falling. Perhaps you care to fore tell when the BSOA will "be gone". Then we can come back at that time and measure the accuracy of your assurance. What say you?

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 7:59 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2988

    "Why cant we just let kids be kids?"
    That's the whole idea.

     
  • ancientemplar posted at 7:28 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    ancientemplar Posts: 1287

    ..and sadly the scout oath and the scout motto will now have to be modified to encompass this change. The last vestige for young boys outside of the family home just got a crack in its foundation.

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 7:24 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    Why cant they have their own Gay Scouts? I see they now have a gay Rainbow Badge. What does little jonny have to do to "EARN" his badge? Is the gay leader going to test jonny on his gayness? Why cant we just let kids be kids?

     
  • DeNiles posted at 6:54 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    The BSOA won't be around much longer anyway. As an organization geared towards sound ethics and conservative principles it presents a clear threat to progressives. That want it completely modified or gone.

    The 'gay' issue was a mistake because it will be used as a progressive wedge to further erode or reduce the organization. Sexuality has never been a part of the BSOA and should not have ever entered into their defining platform. But now it is just because of gayness. And it will be worked and milked and wormed until the BSOA removes all religious and conservative relationships or is gone. How? Lawsuits claiming discrimination. The ACLU will gladly pursue every claim by any gay child averring any form of discomfort or perceived ill-will while a known gay member of the BSOA. Prayers will be seen as homophobic. A religious member who shows a bible at camp will insult some gay child. They will sue for anything and everything and as often as possible. Plan on it. I can assure you they are planning to do it. The BSOA is as good as gone and that is what the LBGT crowds wanted from the start.

     
  • voxpop posted at 4:46 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    voxpop Posts: 738

    I'm guessing Nonini and his KCRR ghost writers are in full support of this position. Assuming of course that none of them do that special thing in rest rooms that Larry Craig liked to do. Oh, and Wolfinger now joins my list of politicians for whom I write in Elmer Fudd, Daffy Duck, or my pal Bugs.

     
  • SusanM posted at 1:11 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    SusanM Posts: 2

    Who has the Sheriff been enforcing the sodomy law against? When? Convictions since 2003, if any, are constitutionally defective.

     
  • SusanM posted at 12:42 am on Sat, May 25, 2013.

    SusanM Posts: 2

    There are a number of problems with the Sheriff's position. The most glaring (and disturbing) is the fact that he is under the misimpression that Idaho's sodomy law is valid. The US Supreme Court's 2003 Lawrence v TX opinion found sodomy criminal statutes unconstitutional as violative of due process.

     
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