Ordinance ordained - Coeur d'Alene Press: Local News

Ordinance ordained

Cd'A City Council gives blessing with 5-1 late-night vote

Print
Font Size:
Default font size
Larger font size

Posted: Thursday, June 6, 2013 12:00 am | Updated: 12:01 am, Thu Jun 6, 2013.

COEUR d'ALENE - The next step is taking a breath.

A day after the Coeur d'Alene City Council adopted an anti-discrimination ordinance 5 to 1, Tony Stewart said the next move is, well, stopping and taking it easy.

"We've been getting a lot of calls and emails," said Stewart, Human Rights Task Force on Human Relations member, on Wednesday on the positive feedback he had received from the previous night's vote. "These things wind up being a great celebration."

And a lot of work.

Stewart, who brought the ordinance to the city to consider, said months of studying went into bringing it to Coeur d'Alene. It's not something that's jumped into.

Coeur d'Alene became the fifth Idaho city to adopt an ordinance that protects lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people from discrimination in areas of employment, housing and public accommodation.

But just because Coeur d'Alene did, the task force isn't ready to make a pitch to neighboring cities to do the same.

"It's a tremendous amount of work," Stewart said on bringing the ordinance forward. "You have to focus on one place at a time."

Some cities contacted by The Press Wednesday about adopting an anti-discrimination ordinance didn't comment, while others said they would cross that bridge if they got there. Dalton Gardens, Hayden, Post Falls and Rathdrum all said they don't have plans in the works for an ordinance.

"We will maintain our holding pattern and see what the future brings," Post Falls Mayor Clay Larkin said.

Roger Saterfiel, president of the Hayden City Council, said the council hasn't been approached by anyone about the issue, but that turnout on Coeur d'Alene's ordinance made "quite a show, though, I see."

Nearly 400 people attended Tuesday night's five-hour debate at the Coeur d'Alene Public Library. It passed rather easily in part because City Councilman Dan Gookin, who originally opposed the idea, researched the proposal more and voted to approve the ordinance. It passed 5-1.

The rule now prohibits people from denying service, housing or jobs to a person solely because of their sexual identity. Violation of the rule is a misdemeanor, punishable by up to six months in jail and $1,000 fine. A mediation step is also involved in the process where the sides could work together. Fines could be as low as $100 then. The rule goes into effect Friday.

Coeur d'Alene took up the issue because the Idaho State Legislature failed to do so, the City Council said. For seven years the topic died in Boise.

In December 2011, Sandpoint was the first Idaho city to adopt an anti-discrimination ordinance. It did so more as a precaution than reaction to a specific event, said Scot Campbell, Sandpoint city attorney.

Since that time, Sandpoint has had one reported case, but the case was dropped as the alleged victim failed to follow through in reporting the alleged incident.

"I think they felt they needed to take the lead," Campbell said on the city being the first to implement it. "It just felt like something that needed to be done. Idaho should have taken it up as a state, but didn't."

Ketchum, Moscow and Boise have adopted similar ordinances. Ketchum and Boise's legal departments didn't return messages Wednesday. Pocatello will consider adopting an ordinance at 6 tonight.

Sandpoint's rule passed quietly, unlike in Coeur d'Alene, where the topic made the Wall Street Journal and launched lots of online chatter.

"It was completely different than what you guys went through," Campbell said. "It's under the radar, but it's there if somebody needs it."

Stewart said it's still too early to see if proposals will go before other towns.

Rathdrum Mayor Vic Holmes said he would listen to the proposal if it came his way. He said he thinks the topic is a state or federal issue, but "we've all taken oaths to treat everybody fairly and equally."

He didn't comment on Coeur d'Alene's decision.

"I never try to figure out what another municipality does," he said. "It's not my job or role to consider it right or wrong - that's between their citizens and their conscience."

Staff writers David Cole and Brian Walker contributed to this report.

More about

More about

More about

  • Discuss

Welcome to the discussion.

92 comments:

  • Rationale posted at 1:45 pm on Wed, Jun 12, 2013.

    Rationale Posts: 1973

    Humanist,

    Well, anybody who has 3 active brain cells knows the answer to your smart-a$$comment..,.except you!

    Ever hear of a little piece of paper called the U.S. Constitution? Ever hear of the Bill of Rights?

    Apparently not!

     
  • Humanist posted at 12:18 pm on Wed, Jun 12, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    Quote Rationale: "A personal choice is NOT a protected class! "

    So why are people a "protected class" on the basis of religion?

     
  • Rationale posted at 10:24 am on Wed, Jun 12, 2013.

    Rationale Posts: 1973

    Yup,

    Now Mahiun blames the Mormon Church for the consequences of his choice.

    Yeah, Mahiun, you are really tolerant! What a hypocrite!

    This is getting absolutely ridiculous.

    What about smokers? Businesses are allowed to discriminate against them! "No shirt, no shoes, no service" is another common business mantra! More discrimination!

    A personal choice is NOT a protected class!

    Let's solve all this asinine b.s.! Every business in every town should simply place that old sign in their window: "We reserve the right to refuse business to ANYONE!"

    No ordinance needed!

     
  • local res posted at 11:01 pm on Mon, Jun 10, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1157

    Mahiun actually you made the distinction in your blog spot on Saturday June 8th. You drew the lines very well in placing your terms of "ours and We".

    Actually what happened in Gresham speaks for itself. You surely remember the cake baker who will make a cake for anyone who comes into his place of business. However, when he refused to be a part of a gay wedding the gay community is up in arms. In fact the woman suing him has never visited his store. So tell me there isnt sides.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 7:35 am on Mon, Jun 10, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    No, I didn't forget. I just didn't think it was especially germane to the particular question of why an additional ordinance (or an addition to existing law) was needed, .

    If a business does have a complaint, it is not an automatic guilty conviction.
    Nor does it mean an automatic acquittal. If it meant an "automatic" version of either conviction and acquittal, it wouldn't be a "fair and impartial" trial or jury at all, would it?

    The business owner who chose to follow his/her convictions will have a jury of their peers and not your peers.
    Not really clear what you're trying to get at, here....

    Why would it not be a jury of "my peers", made up of citizens from the community? Who are you characterizing as being or not being "my peers", and on what basis? Are you saying that, by virtue of being a gay man, I am somehow not a peer or equal of other citizens (which would be a perfect illustration of exactly why an ordinance like this needed in the first place)? Or are you saying that, because the jury would likely be made mostly of straight people that they would be unable to render a fair verdict and simply decide whether the law had been broken? Are you saying that straight people are not able to be fair, when it comes to GLBT people (which would, again, be a perfect illustration of why the ordinance is needed)?

    But the fact is, most such cases don't go to trial, anyway, but end up in mediation, which both dramatically reduces the monetary fine and is much more likely to get an actual solution and resolution. The "big ones" get the media headlines exactly because they're the big ones and the unusual cases, but when these cases happen, most of them are much more low-profile and mundane, and end up with both sides working out some kind of agreement.

     
  • local res posted at 9:20 pm on Sun, Jun 9, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1157

    Golden Mean what is your business name?

     
  • local res posted at 9:18 pm on Sun, Jun 9, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1157

    True about the hate here in CDA, just look at Mahiun comments and all the "we's".

     
  • local res posted at 9:17 pm on Sun, Jun 9, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1157

    Mahiun, You apparently forgot about the judicial system that we have here. If a business does have a complaint, it is not an automatic guilty conviction. The business owner who chose to follow his/her convictions will have a jury of their peers and not your peers.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 4:26 pm on Sat, Jun 8, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    Keven, I can't nest the replies any deeper, so I have to start over, up here....

    Well here's the thing, Mahiun. You rightly point out that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 already protects people from discrimination in businesses open to the public. So why do we need another law?
    In a nutshell: because it only protects some people in some places. It's a common misconception that there are protections for GLBT people at the federal level, but it is a misconception --- we are still very much second-class citizens, as far as the Feds are concerned. Both Congress and the Idaho State Legislature have basically been too gutless, and too beholden to the Brimstone Brigade to extend protections at the national or state levels, to GLBT people. Not even our jobs are protected, on a federal level; they cannot get ENDA passed through the Republican-led House.

    At the state level, these city ordinances came about partly in an effort to pressure the state legislature to get off its collective derriere and do something about it. But as long as the legislature is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, that's not likely. So cities are taking matters into their own hands. Pocatello just became the 6th Idaho city to pass such an ordinance, meaning that almost a quarter of the state's population (22%) is now covered by this or similar ordinances. If Nampa and Caldwell join, that will be up to around 30%, I believe -- almost a third. Adding Post Falls probably would take it to a third.

    And don't the vast majority of business owners already operate in this manner?
    Probably. But is it really reasonable to expect someone --- especially someone from out of town --- to know which ones are okay to patronize and which ones are, "Danger, Will Robinson!" ? (You have to be of a certain age to get that reference, but still....)

    Do we have a rampant problem in Coeur d' alene of businesses refusing to serve certain customers?
    Not that I'm aware of. So let's make sure that we never do --- an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure, and all....

    As I've said, no prudent business owner is turning away paying customers because of their race or sexual orientation. Those very few who are bigots or homophobes will be dealt with by the free market and soon a new business will take its place.
    Perhaps, but in the meantime, you've ruined somebody's meal, vacation, place of residence, and possibly even entire career, waiting for the free market to do its thing. This is just a proactive step to avoid that. We hope that we'll never even need to use this law, but it's there in the event that we do end up needing it. We hope that reason and common sense will always prevail and that we'll never need to use most of the laws we write, but we also realize that the world doesn't work that way, and it's better to have a law in place and not need it, than the other way around. Again, an ounce of prevention....

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 2:47 pm on Sat, Jun 8, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "...wouldn't you have been in violation of this anti discrimination ordinance when you ejected Mr. Butler from your business?"

    Hate is a crime, it's important not to confuse the repercussions of committing a crime with prejudice and/or intolerance. And for what it's worth, the bible supports my position...

    "Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him" - John 3:15

    Seems like the Great Invisible Sky Ghost doesn't want haters living in his eternal sky palace either. Doubt that The Lord has ever been accused of discrimination for refusing to rent cloud space to haters. Therefore, pretty sure giving Butler the boot was okay.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 11:53 am on Sat, Jun 8, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    Ohhhhhhh, "hate" is such an ugly word..... We prefer to refer to it as "righteousness".

     
  • Ziggy posted at 9:31 am on Sat, Jun 8, 2013.

    Ziggy Posts: 1048

    What is so achingly agonizingly sad is that when Butler lost the lawsuit, passed away, and the compound was burned, we thought we were free of him. Not so. Obviously Butler holds sway even from the grave.
    This ordinance is a light that shines on against that prejudice thanks to a brave city council.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 7:11 am on Sat, Jun 8, 2013.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1224

    Well here's the thing, Mahiun. You rightly point out that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 already protects people from discrimination in businesses open to the public. So why do we need another law?

    And don't the vast majority of business owners already operate in this manner? Do we have a rampant problem in Coeur d' alene of businesses refusing to serve certain customers? As I've said, no prudent business owner is turning away paying customers because of their race or sexual orientation. Those very few who are bigots or homophobes will be dealt with by the free market and soon a new business will take its place.

    Golden Mean, wouldn't you have been in violation of this anti discrimination ordinance when you ejected Mr. Butler from your business? I think you were well within your rights as the owner to do so; but you absolutely did discriminate against him because of beliefs you disagree with. You should be able to do that in your own establishment.

    I don't condone discrimination; I just think it was a completely unnecessary "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist. We need fewer laws, and more freedom.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 3:46 am on Sat, Jun 8, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    We are all in this boat together folks, it makes no sense to hate anybody who can paddle his or her own weight.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 3:41 am on Sat, Jun 8, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Mr Johnson, your argument was based on speculation, sir.

    Re: "... you're a business owner aren't you, Golden Mean? If that is the case, who do you believe should set policy for your business? Shouldn't it be you?"

    That is a quality question, thank you for that. Yes, I am a business owner and I am very much in charge of policy. And, in all fairness, I confess to having ejected Mr Butler from my business. Actually, an employee refused to service Mr Butler, a decision which I supported and today, I am still proud of.

    Bottom line, I feel that it is my civic duty to run a hate-free establishment. This seems like the right thing to do and it it is my belief that doing so is in accordance with the morality and law of the land.

     
  • Peter posted at 10:19 pm on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    Peter Posts: 578

    Ditto to what Mahiun said. One would not want that same moral relativistic view with race, religion, and this case gays. There has yet to be a modern free democratic nation that allows this. At least none that comes to mind. In general there has been no nation where a free democratic nation thrived on pure Ayn Rand moral relativism based free market.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 9:53 pm on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    Keven, the reason that "It's my property, and I'll do with it what I want!" doesn't apply here is the principle known as "public accommodation", an integral part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (although the basic idea was established long before that).

    In a nutshell, the concept is that by voluntarily choosing to use this property to serve or "accommodate" the public, you have voluntarily waived your right to be selective about who you will or will not permit to enter the premises and be served. If your business is set up to serve or "accommodate" the general public, then you are expected to know and follow all of the rules and law of public accommodation and serve entire public, without cherry-picking just the portions of the public you happen to like.

    If you want to be able to do that, then you need to move to a business that does not serve the general public, and would therefore not be subject to "public accommodation" laws and regulations.If you want to "do what you want with you private property", then it needs to remain just that: private property. The minute you open it up to the general public, the rules change....

     
  • Screen Name posted at 8:56 pm on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 650

    Private property rights...I own a corporation which employees thousands of people all over the U.S. I am a major retailer with hundreds of stores. The name of my corporation is known by 100% of the population. I pay well and everyone wants to work for me. I have policy of only hiring white male Christians aged 20-25. All other applicants will be summarily rejected for not meeting the preceding qualifications.

    Is this OK in your world?

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 6:47 pm on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1224

    You can disagree of course, but my argument against was in fact logical.

    I'm curious though; If I recall correctly from past posts, you're a business owner aren't you, Golden Mean? If that is the case, who do you believe should set policy for your business? Shouldn't it be you?

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 4:33 pm on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "You're right, we didn't hear a logical argument against this ordinance - - but that doesn't mean there wasn't one"

    But that doesn't mean that there was one.

     
  • Keven Johnson posted at 3:22 pm on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    Keven Johnson Posts: 1224

    You're right, we didn't hear a logical argument against this ordinance - - but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. It's a little late to make it now, but the logical argument against this ordinance that it's a private property rights issue. A landlord, or business owner, should have the absolute right to decide who he rents to or who he serves, on his property or in his business. If he's a bigot an/or a homophobe, and excludes paying customers because he doesn't like the color of their skin or their sexual orientation, the free market will take care of the situation soon enough. Should there be a different standard for public places such as the library or a city owned park? Of course - - which brings me to the second point of my logical argument against this ordinance: Was there a problem with people being excluded and discriminated against in public places before this law was passed? I don't think so - - this ordinance was a 'solution' to a problem that didn't exist. There's nothing logical about that, especially when there are real problems to address.

     
  • The Simple Truth posted at 11:57 am on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    The Simple Truth Posts: 563

    there's a lot of hate in CdA

     
  • Mahiun posted at 8:57 am on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    Still have yet to see a logical argument against this ordinance.
    You may be waiting a very long time....

     
  • efromm posted at 12:01 am on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    efromm Posts: 644

    Actually Man is the worst thing to happen to Man. Religion has nothing to do with it. The problem and it has always been the problem is you! ALL OF YOU! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US! Until we stop the judging we will never love. Love thy neighbor as they self. That's it. It's that simple and yet no one wants to see it. They would rather fight about it. Than get along. Is it love to condemn the other side and then condemn the other side for being the other side in the first place? The change has to come into the hearts of the people. Religion has nothing to do with this. We all know how we should be. Love they neighbor as thy self. And everything will be just fine. Except for those few that hate themselves and we will just have to give them a little extra love when they come along to make up for what they never got before....

     
  • Peter posted at 8:29 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Peter Posts: 578

    Still have yet to see a logical argument against this ordincance. How is this ordinance really going to affect your (nay sayers) lives?

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 5:15 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    nuttin' says home like banjo music...

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 5:13 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Albert Camus also wrote about unreflective feeling, absurdity and indefensible indifference. Knowing his feelings about religion, it's possible that he was speaking about Modern Christianity.

    In his book, The Stranger, Camus tells the tale of a man accepts the irrationality of life and the lack of objective meaning... Modern Christianity requires it's followers to do just that!

     
  • ecclesia posted at 4:27 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    ecclesia Posts: 19

    Not certain what to think about protecting a minority of deviants when the city refuses to protect the recognized majority of workers. How many bread winners get handed a pink slip for doing their job. A very vocal minority will now hide behind the skirt of unnecessary law to avoid being fired for not doing their job. Ironic isn't it. An ordinance is now compelled to protect heterosexuals and their right to free heterosexual expression. That guy/girl in Sandpoint that filed a false report with the police needs to be fined $1,000 and spend some time in jail.

     
  • Flash Gordon posted at 3:24 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Flash Gordon Posts: 1164

    Both religion and science have single source theories about "creation" or how it all began. I'm not sure it's all that important to "know" the "truth", the ultimate answer to that. Apparently, there is no answer to that. I personally believe it's out of our grasp. Too many people with varying philosophical points of view have a monopoly on "truth" and it really gets in the way of exploring the nature of our existence.

    As Albert Camus and Jean Paul Sartre have suggested repeatedly(they turn to a less ambitious question), the task of humanity is to find meaning within the inexplicable world we find ourselves in without being tempted to commit suicide:)

     
  • Humanist posted at 3:06 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    @Randy: That's a totally unrelated topic...... But, that is a good example of real science. Creationism is often called "scientific" when it simply is not.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 3:00 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    It has always baffled me how the same people can, with apparently no cognitive dissonance at all, scream that, "No one can point to a 'gay gene', so there is therefore no genetic component at all!" despite abundant evidence to the contrary --- and then turn right around and insist that we must all follow (their own understanding of) the dictates of some incorporeal entity without a single shred of evidence to support its existence.

    But religion is not based on reason, and is pretty much impervious to it....

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 2:41 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    Actually in Quantum physics there has been a discovery of what is known as the "God Particle. " There are some good books out that explain the physics behind it in layman's terms and without a need to know advanced mathematics.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 2:26 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    Once one travels a bit....
    Now, why on Earth would you want to do that??! You might run into people who talk funny, look different, and have their heads filled with strange ideas that aren't exactly like yours!

     
  • Mahiun posted at 2:22 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    Well, all too often, intellectual laziness, at any rate....

     
  • Mahiun posted at 2:20 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    No. That's a common misunderstanding, but it's still a misunderstanding. You are not being told what you must believe, you are being told what you are and are not permitted to do with that belief. You are free to believe just as hard as you want to, but you are not allowed to use that belief that infringe on the rights of others to equal treatment, respect, and dignity.

    You may believe that your religion requires you to sacrifice a random stranger to your god, every full moon --- and you are absolutely permitted to believe that with all your heart! But you are not permitted to carry out that belief, because it would infringe on the rights of others.

    You may believe that your god requires you to dance naked at noon in the public square of whatever city you're in at the time. And once again, no one is telling you that you must believe otherwise. The restriction comes in what you are or are not allowed to do about that belief -- and in this case, it will not include dancing naked at noon in the city park.

    You may believe that GLBT persons are worse than the lepers of ancient Mesopotamia, and that you must shun them and drive them from your place of public business. And you can go right on believing that, but you may not act on that belief, because it would infringe on the rights of others. If it is important enough to you that you act on this belief, then you'll need to find another area of business where you can do that without running afoul of the law.

    Constitutional rights are not unlimited --- either yours or mine. They are always a matter of finding a balance between competing interests, and in this case, the balance was determined to lie in permitting you to retain your beliefs and (if necessary) to choose other lines of business where they may be acted upon, whilst trying to preserve the rights of others to respect, dignity, and fair & equal treatment.

     
  • Humanist posted at 2:07 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    You just have to tolerate and not discriminate against other people of different beliefs and characteristics just like I have to tolerate and not discriminate against you for your beliefs and characteristics. Pretty darn simple, really. No one is asking to believe any differently than you currently do. But, yeah, when it comes to housing, employment and business you must at least act like you aren't discriminatory.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 2:04 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    I've never understood how christians demand that no one tread on their religious rights however they will try to force their beliefs on everyone else.

    It's usually the result of a faulty and/or incomplete knowledge and understanding of theology, coupled with a faulty and/or incomplete knowledge and understanding of history. See also Dominionism.

     
  • Humanist posted at 2:02 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    Quote stagner: "Science has and will prove the existence of a Creator, See Intelligent Design. "

    ID (a fancy schmancy name for creationism) is in absolutely no way "scientific". You cannot change the definition of science to fit your needs.

     
  • Humanist posted at 2:01 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    Quote stagner: "Science has and will prove the existence of a Creator, See Intelligent Design. "

    ID (a fancy schmancy name for creationism) is in absolutely no way "scientific". You cannot change the definition of science to fit your needs.

     
  • stagner posted at 1:16 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    stagner Posts: 13

    caius- interesting statements, can you back them up with some examples of when you were bullied?
    What religious rights have been forced on you?
    Science has and will prove the existence of a Creator, See Intelligent Design.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 1:11 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Modern Christian Challenge - Be as tolerant of others as they have to be of you

     
  • stagner posted at 1:07 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    stagner Posts: 13

    Humanist-You are being a bit two faced. By favoring and passing this ordinance I am being told how I must act and believe there will be reprocusions if I do not. In your statement your bone is not really with man but with God, they are his words not man's. Problem I have is this law is man's with no basis on God's word. Yes we are all created equal in the eyes of God. (= fallen) but that does not give another man the right to walk on my belief.

    =

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 1:02 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "Accept us or go directly to jail! That is NOT a way to win friends and influence people"

    Today's Fear of God Vocabulary Word is "Tolerance"

     
  • CaiusCosades posted at 12:54 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    CaiusCosades Posts: 370

    I'm very proud and happy that this nation is no longer allowing the religious right to bully the rest of society any longer, that their days of having a privileged status are over.

    I've never understood how christians demand that no one tread on their religious rights however they will try to force their beliefs on everyone else.

    I can only hope that with further advancements of science and the advent of the internet, that one day we will finally be entirely rid of the scourge of religion that has truly been the greatest detriment of mankind.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 12:53 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "Wisdom begins with the fear of God"

    I disagree. Intellectual slavery begins with the fear of God.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 12:51 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "You must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ was the ONLY begotten son of God"

    Some hope that's true while others hope for your sake that's true. But truth is, your asking for something that cannot be done objectively.

     
  • Jason Abbott posted at 12:46 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Jason Abbott Posts: 471

    You’ve copied an old Internet parody but to what point I can’t tell. You wish for more holidays?

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 12:45 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Typed many comments in my day, never had that problem. I think you're doing it wrong.

     
  • Miketeague posted at 12:33 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Miketeague Posts: 1709

    JIST you forgot a few Christians on your list, how about Jim and Tammy Bakker or Jimmy Swaggart (caught with an underage hooker and wrote his own bible), was it Falwell that got caught in an affair and cried on TV that if people didn’t send him money god was going to take him? Good Christians all. Which is it fear god or love god, your not going to do both.
    In my not to short life I can count the number of true Christians I witnessed. They did not stand on a street corner proclaiming that they had seen the light (pun intended) or that they didn’t get there first birth, right so they had to be reborn. The people I’m talking about were tolerant and accepting of ALL, they quietly went about their lives not judging but helping all they could with what they had, asking nothing in return. I’ve seen no one that even comes close to this in the area. No I’ve had a chance to see, hear, and read the Northwest brand of Christians and want no part of it.

     
  • max power posted at 12:30 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    max power Posts: 559

    *** Local Transgender Demands Mother's Day For Transgendered Fathers ***

    Coeur d' Alene, Idaho - Peter Tucker, a transgender freak and advocate for all things bizarre is demanding that there be a Mother's Day for transgendered fathers on Father's Day.

    Traditionally on Father's Day, there is one subset of father's who do not joyfully open up a Father's Day card that tells them that for one day they are the boss. These poor souls don't even get a present of beer or man food. They get nothing!

    These poor souls are the transgendered fathers. Those who have children but have moved to the otherside of the bus, taken a detour down life's highway and removed or modified their manhood machinery.

    "It's why I'm demanding that all Cd'A businesses that carry greeting cards accommodate freaks like myself by carrying cards that acknowledge Other Mother's Day on Father's Day. I would hope they wouldn't discriminate against my kind," said Peter Tucker.

    Tucker went on to suggest that Other Mother's Day should not only coincide with Father's Day, but could also be celebrated with National Sausage Day and Wrist-Weakening Exercises Appreciation Day. "This would make fathers who have become mothers feel like any other father on Other Mother's Day," said Tucker.

    "I suggest they amalgamate the words father and mother and use the term 'mather'. Happy Mather's Day to all you transgendered freaks out there." - Jack Hammer

     
  • Humanist posted at 12:27 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    You don't have to accept LGBT people, but you cannot discriminate against them. They are not the same thing.

     
  • Screen Name posted at 12:26 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 650

    Absolutism - Love it.

    As you are probably aware, laws are passed by legislative or quasi-legislative bodies. Such bodies may or may not be made up of lawyers and may or may not rely upon lawyers to draft the laws. However, I fail to see how a law, let's say a law that make child sexual abuse a criminal offense, benefits the lawyer that may or may not have written the law.

    Can you please elaborate on this example?

     
  • Humanist posted at 12:26 pm on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    While I agree that treating others as Jesus would treat them is a great thing for anyone to strive for, I don't believe that Jesus Christ was the only begotten son of god. Does that work for you? Didn't think so....... Now please stop telling me what I must believe.

     
  • Screen Name posted at 11:49 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 650

    Simple enough? How does your opinion comport with this?

    The Shahada (also spelled “Shahadah”) is the Islamic Creed, one of the Five Pillars of Islam. The word “Shahada” comes from the verb shahida, meaning “he testifies” or “he bears witness.” In reciting the Shahada, a Muslim bears witness that Allah is the only true god, and that Muhammad is Allah’s prophet. The shortest form of the Shahada would be translated:

    “There is no god but Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.”

    Longer versions are common, especially those beginning with “I bear witness” or “I testify,” e.g.:

    “I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.”

    A person becomes a Muslim by reciting the Shahada with a sincere heart in Arabic.

     
  • livinlarge posted at 11:47 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    livinlarge Posts: 29

    Always the same folks saying the same thing on this subject. Kinda makes my Buttttt hurt.. (Pun intended)

     
  • heatherfeather posted at 11:46 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    heatherfeather Posts: 297

    Wow! Another rim shot from the Tolerance Gang. Imagine the shrieking from your collective had someone said the same about "Black scholars".

    The sooner the failed American experiment Balkanizes and the Empire ends, the better for all.

     
  • heatherfeather posted at 11:45 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    heatherfeather Posts: 297

    Again, my problem is with the forced acceptance. Accept us or go directly to jail! That is NOT a way to win friends and influence people. They were smart enough to include the mediator, but then again, all "laws" these days are for the benefit of the lawyer who writes them.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 11:42 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 1858

    Now that's just mean...wrong, and not very nice. I have 2 degrees. I had to study to get them. I'm a pilot, a diver, and a climber. These endeavors required a good deal of study. Religions are a hobby. Once one travels a bit, and studies the hundreds of religions, it becomes nearly impossible to subscribe to only one way of looking at things. The myopic Christian cult would not make the list.

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 11:21 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 535

    DC any of the men I listed have twice if not three times the education you do. Additionally, you have no idea what studying entails.

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 11:20 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 535

    You must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ was the ONLY begotten son of God. You must repent and walk away from your sinning. You must treat others as Jesus would treat them. You must love God above all things. You must abide in Jesus Christ and obey Him. Simple enough.

     
  • fiepie posted at 10:47 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2776

    JITL...if you compare what the apostle's and Jesus said...must....be done in order to be a Christian and what Billy Graham preached his entire "ministry" you will find Mr. Graham could not repeat what the rest had said ...must...be done....course you probrably knew that but then Billy Graham gave a lot of "feel" good sermons.....

     
  • Screen Name posted at 10:37 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 650

    Who is this "Satan" you claim keeps winning all the time? I know the Miami Heat won their last game. Is "Satan" the nickname of the Heat? You know, the underworld is hot and heat is another word for hot? Or maybe "Satan" is LeBron James? The folks in Cleveland probably call him that. Are you from Cleveland? Can I place a bet on "Satan" I like a winner.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 10:31 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 1858

    "Christian scholars"....I'm not certain these two words go together.

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 10:14 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 535

    Mike, I'm not sure where you get your "information" from, but based on your statment I would say CNN, because that is the exact thing the talking heads there say. I would suggest if you want an education on Christianity you pick up the New Testament and concordance. Then do some research and some work done by Christian scholars.

    John McCarthur
    Charles Swindoll
    Greg Laurie
    George McDonald
    Billy Graham

    just a few....

    And there is nothing ignorant in living by the Word of God. Wisdom begins with the fear of God.

     
  • Miketeague posted at 9:56 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Miketeague Posts: 1709

    Very FUNNY Humanist, but AMEN

     
  • Miketeague posted at 9:47 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Miketeague Posts: 1709

    The vote is in, ignorance and intolerance 1, freedom 5. LGBT did not win, people won.
    During all the debates and comments someone referred to a creeping menace which of course was discounted at the time. Well there really is a creeping menace; Councilman Adams gave it as one of the reasons for his no vote.
    Small minded, power hungry, Christian extremist, (as in Islamic extremist) are using any means they can (lies, misquotes, intimidation) to set up their form of Taliban. Once a theocracy is established then the killing will begin in earnest to battle out whose church will rule.
    Hey this isn’t as far out as some of the ludicrous statements I’ve heard and read lately. Bring on the lions.

     
  • Humanist posted at 9:45 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    Can I get an "AMEN!" that this ordinance passed?

     
  • DeNiles posted at 9:38 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    Randy! Got finished with the Mayors toiletry duties early today, I see. Good for you. Good boy.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 9:36 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    Undoubtedly the Press will soon print/post an apology for its "unfortunate" decision in using this insensitive and provocative headliner. Tick, tick, tick............ waiting.

     
  • shethorn posted at 9:20 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    shethorn Posts: 2

    Thank God I no longer live in CDA. I am disappointed, but not surprised at the little city trying to be like the "big guys'. I think the word "ordained" is out of line, but again not surprising. What ever the people with money desire, that is ordained by the god of political correctness. It is good that I am not a resident of Coeur d Alene and that I do not own a business in that town!

     
  • Mahiun posted at 9:16 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    More likely just a bad ol' headline writer (possibly Mike P. himself, who knows?!), but.....y'know, whatevs....

     
  • Mahiun posted at 9:11 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    That could happen, I guess, but it seems pretty unlikely. In the year and half that Sandpoint has had their similar ordinance in place, there's been a grand total of ONE<?b> complaint, and that one got dropped because the person making the complaint failed to follow through. Life went on....

     
  • Mahiun posted at 9:07 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    This is the Coeur d'Alene Press, in Coeur d'Alene, Kootenai County, Idaho --- what are the odds that the headline writer was gay or lesbian, vs. simply being someone having a little fun with alliteration?

    So you're still absolutely certain you don't want to change your screen name to "Perry Noia"?

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 8:53 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 1858

    Yeah Niles...Them bad ol gays have really thrown down the gauntlet. Scary, aren't they, "all salty, acidic and mean."

     
  • DeNiles posted at 8:31 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    To use this word in this fashion is intentional. It is to thumb a nose, to convey grinning disrespect. It aggravates a known and well understood animus. It is an 'up yours and take that' you Christians. It is a perfect demonstration of the intolerant gruff and ugly attitude demonstrated by the LBGT towards any religious faction. The LBGT can't get their 'special ways' and just be nice. They revel in rubbing it in all salty, acidic and mean.

    There were many words that could have been used here that had no double entendre. This word was chosen. The gauntlet was tossed.

     
  • Humanist posted at 8:25 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 2936

    Quote IdahoMan: "Here's another next step for us: Canceling our subscription to CDAPress"

    Hopefully that includes not visiting their web site either.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 8:14 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    Well, there's always Alabama. Just sayin'....

     
  • Mahiun posted at 8:12 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4736

    The word means - to invest officially with ministerial authority....
    Yes, it does. But that is not all it means.

    It can also mean, "to order or decree [something] officially, to cause [something] to be deployed or implemented." And it makes for some rather nice alliteration in the headline (ORDINinance ORDained), for which the Press has often demonstrated a fondness.

    So, to assume only one meaning -- the most indicting meaning possible --- for the usage of this term.....well.......

    "How profoundly arrogant. How profoundly hypocritical....It is exactly what you'd expect from such [a person]."

     
  • ShinyRockDale posted at 8:12 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    ShinyRockDale Posts: 26

    Take a look at the list of members of the local ministerial association, certainly not representing most of mainline Christian churches like Episcopal mentioned by Flash Godon, rather mostly fundamentalist. No surprise!

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 8:07 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 1858

    Satan wins:
    What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
    Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
    Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
    Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 7:41 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    Buh bye. I assume you are also done posting. You wouldn't want to add hits to such despicable places as the Press and Spokesman Review

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 7:40 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    Actually it does not create a protected class. It just affirms that LGBT folk are to have full human rights just like the rest of us.

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 7:39 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    Not everything is a conspiracy DeNiles. You really can't help yourself slinging shite towards HREI and the Press. Face it, this is your place to spout. You should be thankful the Press allows your spew.

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 7:36 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    *Like*

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 7:32 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 535

    Well I know 5 people who won't be in office next time around. I wonder how many people the Militant Human Rights Task Force bussed in from Spokane to show up the other night.

    Satan wins another round in Coeur d'Alene. How sad our state of affairs have become. Satan owns the White House and now he owns small town Idaho.

     
  • Flash Gordon posted at 7:06 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Flash Gordon Posts: 1164

    And talking about ministerial authority, it was instructive to hear that pastor from Candlelight Ministries , and current chair of the Coeur d' Alene ministerial association, suggest he spoke for "them". Until, of course, that Episcopal priest got up before the council and really set the record straight:)

     
  • fiepie posted at 6:42 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2776

    "Ordained"...to enact or establish by law, edict, etc
    "Ordained" ...to decree, give orders for...

    But...you knew that....

     
  • DeNiles posted at 5:52 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    "Ordained"? A curious and no doubt intentional, selection of a descriptive term.

    The word means - to invest officially with ministerial authority - so as to imply that this event/rule has the - blessing/support of a religious organization in the name of, and the approval of - God.

    In other words the HREI and/or the CdA Press has chosen to unofficially usurp the power of religion and - ordained- this law without any official sacred authority. They now speak for God.

    How profoundly arrogant. How profoundly hypocritical.

    It is a poke in the eye, an insult. It is kicking the head of a downed man and spitting on the soon to be corpse.

    It is exactly what you'd expect from such people.

     
  • voxpop posted at 5:19 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    voxpop Posts: 738

    My only issue with this is it creates another "protected" class of individuals who are prone to assume two people talking on a street corner are conspiring against THEM because they're LGBT, indian, black, hispanic, female, dumb, ugly, or a combination thereof. All people have the right to be treated equally BUT at least SOME adherence to actual fact has to be maintained. Personally I believe this is another case of a solution in search of a problem, rather than the other way round.

     
  • I_Am_an_American posted at 4:50 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    I_Am_an_American Posts: 30

    @Idahoman. It is people like you that puts the State of Idaho 48th in education. You won't happen to be a leftover from the 1980's reign of Neo-Nazis would you?

     
  • Moon_Smiles posted at 12:57 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    Moon_Smiles Posts: 13

    Oh, No! Please don't throw me in the briar patch, Br'er Bear! One can only hope that you'll cancel that subscription and log off the computer today so that we won't have to hear from the likes of you again, IdahoMan. Maybe, just maybe, you'll take up living in a remote location far away from the rest of civilization??? It's too much to hope for.

     
  • IdahoMan posted at 12:19 am on Thu, Jun 6, 2013.

    IdahoMan Posts: 100

    "A day after the Coeur d'Alene City Council adopted an anti-discrimination
    ordinance 5 to 1, Tony Stewart said the next move is, well, stopping and taking it easy."

    Bullpucky.

    The next step is throwing out each one of these people who voted for it.

    "Ordinance 'ordained'", "The next step.."

    You call this unbiased news? Here's another next step for us: Canceling our subscription to CDAPress and PravdaSpokane(AKA "Spokesman Review").

     
default avatar
Welcome to the site! Login or Signup below.
|
Not you?||
Logout|My Dashboard

Stocks