My turn: Witness questions police shooting - Coeur d'Alene Press: Local News

My turn: Witness questions police shooting

Welcome to the discussion.

378 comments:

  • RDT64 posted at 5:19 pm on Mon, Aug 6, 2012.

    RDT64 Posts: 1

    Here's your update, complete with multicam video, though I won't hold my breath waiting for some here to accept reality...

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/aug/03/post-falls-police-release-findings-internal-invest/

     
  • chouli posted at 5:00 pm on Fri, May 4, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    there's a pattern in these incidences.
    what happened to protect and serve?

    hope for an update on the Todd investigation soon, but I won't hold my breath. it's all on their terms and the public isn't even a consideration. I'm sure the officers involved will be cleared by their own team of investigators. we need a citizen committee involved with every officer involved shooting...and especially in every officer involved fatality.

     
  • lyric21 posted at 8:38 pm on Wed, Apr 18, 2012.

    lyric21 Posts: 97

    Hope everyone hear has also watched the 9 minute video of the appalling incident last July where Nic Clason died after being restrained and attended to (verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry sloooooooooowly) by CdA Police and ISP. The url is cdapress.com/news/local_news/article_7e1e5416-8450-11e1-8863-001a4bcf887a.html Or you can search in the Press for "Clason arrest footage released"

     
  • MtnMan posted at 9:41 am on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    @chouli

    Next time, I will heed your warning. :P

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 6:19 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    chouli's face looks like somebody already took a flashlight to it. Just saying.

     
  • My2sence posted at 4:09 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    My2sence Posts: 317

    Can you just picture RC with his flashlight in chouli face...."answer my question !"

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:47 am on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Hey, chouligirl crawled out from underneath her rock. Now that you're here, why don't you respond to the questions I asked you?

     
  • chouli posted at 9:04 am on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    sorry mtn man, there are people reading who appreciate your posts and appreciate the discussion. and then there are RC, NID and associates who just can't engage in civil discussion but then blame everyone else as the name calling bad guys... many of us have already been through it with them and that's why I now ignore them. it's their goal to chase away and mute anyone who wants an open discussion.
    there will be more stories on this to come and we will comment again.

     
  • MtnMan posted at 12:07 am on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    Rogue Cop

    My bad. I should have realized you are not able to count past one.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 1:43 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Yeah that's it, MtnMan...I'm hiding.

    The only relative question you've asked me without first answering your own questions with your pontifications and verbosity is: "Would you handle everything the same way or perhaps do something differently?" And I answered it: "I don't know because I don't have all the facts. It's that simple."

    The rest of your message is just a rehash and mental masturbation. Nice try!

     
  • MtnMan posted at 10:38 am on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    Rogue, I really had hopes you would list my questions and attempt to answer them. like you posted all my ideas, opinions, and beliefs. I guess you believe my opinions are worthy for readers since you did re-post most if not all of them. Can you show me and others you are better than what you claim some are for not answering your questions? Are you afraid to address my questions? Or is it that you want me to be part of some image you have? Is not answering my questions akin to cowardice? I have stood toe to toe with you and answered your questions, without the childish name calling and innuendos. Are you man enough to give me the same courtesy?

    We could try this....

    I make a statement, give an opinion, share an idea. But, If you don't see it the same way. Why not quote what you disagree with and give me your take on the subject? And before ya know it, a rebuttal is born. Forget there is a person behind the idea, just look at the idea itself. Don't even try attempt to disseminate the idea. I see no right or wrong in ideas, opinions, or sharing one's beliefs. We are all wired differently. And who knows, one of us might even change the others way of looking at a certain idea when a new view is added to the brain pan. At times we even agree, imagine that. I read your reply on the recall and who you believe shouldn't be supporting it publicly as an entity, I agree with you very much on that.

    People will always make very poorly chosen accusations and those, to me, are best ignored, unless of course you enjoy the argument. Personally, I take the accusations for what they are worth when nobody, unless they were there and witnessed it, has a clue as to what transpired in any death by an officer. And even witnesses get things wrong. As I believe is apparent from this article. But being mistaken and flat out lying are entirely two different things. You can interview ten witnesses to the same event, and possibly get ten different stories, does that make nine of them liars? I think not, mistaken perhaps.

    And, If you are indeed an officer, it is something you should be used to or get used to, as it is a part of the job that will never go away. Officers will continue to be spat upon, called every name in the book, shot at, run down, and no doubt a good amount of other vile things. Rest assured, I will be none of those. But it is a very well known part of the job. And I truly admire those who have accepted this and let, at least others words, roll off like "water off a duck's back." Perhaps consider the source and shake your head. Are they really worth the anger?

    Do I believe there is corruption in LE? Look no further than Spokane for that answer. I can only pray that nothing like that ever happens here in Idaho. Talk about a "Black Eye" on Spokane's LEO. Though it appears their problems may have climbed the ranks to include a former mayor or two and others in between. But, who knows? I am sure the Feds are sorting it all out.

    I am not sure it is a good idea for a department to make a public statement exonerating officers involved in an OIS/OID too quickly. I think it might be better to wait for any investigations to be completed.
    Chief Haug is a good man in my book too, but even good men make errors at times. After-all, they are human like the rest of us.

    And since the name calling seems to be a point of contention for you, I re-read the posts, being curious as to who threw out the first name calling insults, It was MMMMMM posted at 1:08 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012. and then, IChoseNID posted at 1:39 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012. And next was, insert drum roll, Rogue Cop posted at 7:31 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012. Do you see a pattern here? Then others lowered themselves to your level and threw them back. So your attempt at playing the poor picked on officer doesn't fly with me. And seriously, you take offense to "Thugbot?" What does it even mean?

    Here is another thought I have that does include this case and too many others. The prosecutors and judges are showing way too much leniency on first time offenders. I say give them the max sentence. A slap on the wrist is not a good deterrent. Officers work hard at removing criminals from the streets just to have the system turn them lose back on society. I am a hardliner on punishment, I believe in the death penalty where it is warranted. But that death should be the decision of the courts and not the officers on the street. And yes I know there are times when it is necessary to take a life. In this case I can make no judgement one way or the other as I have read very few facts.

    Here is something for you to masticate on, are you going to stay in hiding or will you give an honest effort to address my questions? Or are you, as you believe others to be beaten by you, going to be beaten by me? Whatever that really means.

    I still would like to know what point you say I unwittingly proved of yours, Somehow I seem to have missed that point.



     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 5:48 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    MtnMan - "Well Evans sure gets around, was he on the other dead end road as well?"
    ***************************
    Inquiring minds want to know! It's really quite amazing what a guy can see and hear while lying on the floor.

     
  • MtnMan posted at 1:57 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    (1) According to Evans they tried that on some other street and that's where Todd struck the ISP officer.

    Well Evans sure gets around, was he on the other dead end road as well?


    (2) How do you know they didn't "attempt to order him out of the vehicle."

    I don't know that. I hadn't read it anywhere. But from what Evans reports, that didn't happen on the fatal dead-end.

    As long as there are citizens and police officers, "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" will happen.
    You may note I have not said they SHOULD have done this or they Should have done that. I have yet to make a derogatory or what I may see as a factual statement about this case. I believe I made myself very clear about anyone being a murderer. I will not try to backtrack, nor change my words. They are how I see the world we live in. I don't believe for a second that ALL officers or ALL departments are corrupt as a whole. If they were we would be reading about folks dying at the hands of the police on a daily basis.

    I do believe corruption exists within departments. To attempt to get people to believe otherwise is a fool's errand. Once again I haven't accused these officers of anything, I do believe I said I would wait for the outcome of the investigation, and then, if one or all are convicted of murder, I will indeed refer to them as such.

    Someone once said, and I have no idea who, that the only way to really get to know a man is to get into a fight with him.

    I don't know what you're getting at with the freedom of speech statement. I agree, say what you will. But don't blame others when your words add to the rift between the citizens and the police. I have read that when an officer identifies himself as such, as you have, and his words reflect on the department, as yours do, they can indeed be held liable for that. Sorta like hollering fire in a theater. Doesn't quite fit the freedom aspect I guess. And I don't know of any employers that will keep an employee that is giving them a bad name or having an effect on their business because they were exercising their freedom by putting customers down. You aren't posting as a private citizen. You are posting as an LEO. You have made it perfectly clear you are an officer. Though I have my doubts. If you want to post as a citizen then stop touting you are indeed an LEO. But far be it from me to try to stop you or anyone else from exercising that freedom. I personally see this freedom, that we have always had, as something that uneducated people are seeing as something new and are going to test its limits. But, this is a whole other subject.

    DISCLAIMER:
    Now that is just my take on the freedom of speech subject, not necessarily the way others would think. So I am not stating anything as a fact other than that is the way I see things. And, I, like someone else here,
    call-em-as I-see-em

    Contrary to supposed popular belief, You don't have to be an LEO to live in the real world.
    Welcome to mine.......


     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 11:00 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Oh no MtnMan, you have clearly misread me. You said - "Too many other ways this could have been handled without a shot ever being fired." So I asked you what other ways (plural) they could have handled it.

    Your response was: "They could have blocked the dead end road keeping him pinned in and at least attempted to order him out of the vehicle."

    (1) According to Evans they tried that on some other street and that's where Todd struck the ISP officer.
    (2) How do you know they didn't "attempt to order him out of the vehicle."

    This is the "too many other ways" they could have handled it? (BTW we're having a discussion now). You see this is the problem with Monday morning quarterbacking instead of waiting for the results of the investigations to be completed. So easy to criticize a month later what the officers had moments to decide.

    You can try to wordsmith your way out of what you previously said. I haven't misquoted or misstated what YOU yourself wrote. Anybody can go back and read it for themselves. I know you may be impressed with your superior IQ and your attempt to diminish mine will no-doubt impress the likes of chouli and Co.. But in the real world it's meaningless.

    What exactly are you objecting to MM, that some cop would have the audacity to defend the process when attacked, lied about, berated, and dissed. You see, when cops are on duty they are expected to take verbal abuse, insults, and slurs, and you've become conditioned to believe that they are second-class citizens that don't deserve the same measure of justice that ya'll are entitled to. Well, OFF-DUTY we have free speech rights just like you...and we don't have to take false accusations, lies, disinformation, or being called murderers. You don't want to have a conversation. You want to preach and instruct. You want to rail against the local police and tie THIS incident into your other perceived corrupt incidents in the nation.

    You're obviously not a moron. At least you can formulate a cogent thought and write complete sentences, distinguishing you from chouli and floorist. But all I see is that you're trying to finesse what you previously and clearly intended to convey...and that is that the officers in this case were out of line and the system is corrupt.

    The cool twist in this scenario is that if these officers are charged, fired or otherwise disciplined...the conspiracy theorists will look foolish because they already determined that it will be covered-up. If the investigations exonerate the officers, then they'll never be satisfied because they made up their mind that the officers murdered this guy and they believe that Evans' video is proof of that.

    You asked me: "Would you handle everything the same way or perhaps do something differently?" I don't know because I don't have all the facts. It's that simple.

     
  • MtnMan posted at 9:58 pm on Sun, Apr 8, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    Rogue Cop

    1. They could have blocked the dead end road keeping him pinned in and at least attempted to order him out of the vehicle.

    That had been suggested in other posts, therefore my saying I didn't feel the need to address it once again. I am not even saying they should have, just an option I see that was a possibility. So hang me for that opinion.

    Would you handle everything the same way or perhaps do something differently?

    I didn't refuse #2, just missed it, thus my saying if I missed any re-post them and I would be happy to answer.

    2. In all honesty I would probably take option 3, which you didn't offer, and look at you like you were crazy and walk away. Seriously, nothing you can believe or say will ever have any effect on my life.

    Oh, and here is another one I missed:
    "So are you lumping in cops and politicians. Your clearly stated view is that Police Departments are corrupt. You have no basis upon which to believe that this incident is the result of corruption."

    I have not so much as implied, let alone state it as fact, that there was any corruption in this incident.

    And now I guess I have aligned myself with you, as you assume I have aligned myself with others for having a conversation with them. As short as they were.

    If you truly are an officer to the law, I see you as doing your badge, the entire force and the entire profession a great disservice when you attack people, unprovoked, and attempt to belittle them. You don't want people asking questions. You do indeed attempt to bully people who dare ask a question or, God Forbid, have an opinion. You are good at complaining about people not answering your questions, but you addressed very few, if any of mine. I think your questions are looking for an argument. Mine, on the other hand, are seeking answers. Answers that seem to elude you without some sort of battle.

    What you see as backtracking, I say is an attempt to bring it down to a level a police officer such as yourself might understand. You know that darn I.Q. thing. And I didn't make it up, it is a documented fact.

    You are funny and fun to toy with though. I guess I could say your errors in attempting to quote me could be considered lies. But I will just look at them as errors in an attempt to make yourself feel better and me look bad.

    You appear to be someone that is trying hard to keep the "us V them" mentality alive. You don't want any civility between civilians and police. You have this fixation with sides. You seem to feel that there are 2 sides and yours being the superior in every way. I am still not going to choose a side in your battle. I will keep my battle to myself and respond to posts directed to or including me. For me to chose a side would require me to agree with that side 100% and I don't see that happening. Both sides have good and bad points. Therefore, I really see no need to take a side.

    If someone doesn't come in here and and attack every negative post against you or police you immediately start your bully session with them. Well bully away, I am a big boy and I can surely handle anything you can dish out. If I should stop responding, it will not be because I feel beaten by you, but rather I have tired of you and am off to find something else to amuse myself with.

    Rogue we all have bias as we all see things from a different point of view. So saying I am biased is really okay. Now if I could just learn to quit unwittingly prove others points I would have it made. I don't recall making a declaration of being fair and balanced, but I do try, but alas I am human and not so perfect. And, unlike you, I do not go out of my way to try to discredit people for their questions or opinions. And please tell me, just what point is it I have proven? (See that, it is a QUESTION mark, denoting a question) If I had known you were attempting to prove some secret point I am sure I could have made it much easier for you to prove. Next time just come out and ask me rather than play these lengthy games.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 6:56 pm on Sun, Apr 8, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    MtnMan: No need to ask you any more questions and no need for you to say anymore...you've proved your bias and unwittingly proved my point. You're trying to back your way out of your original statements by "declaring" yourself fair and balanced. I'm not amused, fooled, or moved. I'm not sad or angry. I just call it the way I see it.

    And no, I didn't call you a "moron". I said you've aligned yourself with morons, or more accurately, "You cast your lots with those morons, not me!"

    OK, so you're not a stooge, a moron, or in a love fest with those who have proved themselves to be.

    Here's a couple questions you refused to answer:

    (1)You said: "Too many other ways this could have been handled without a shot ever being fired." Then tell us from your unbiased point of view what other ways there were to have handled it.

    (2) If I walked up to you on the street, not knowing you, and called you a thug and a murderer would you call me an idiot or would you say, "Thank you sir may I have another"?

     
  • MtnMan posted at 2:51 pm on Sun, Apr 8, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    Rogue, Sorry you see my opinions as attacks on police. And yes, It is hard to believe everything police report in light of recent events in this area. I also do not lump every officer into that belief. I also do not choose sides. I am not going to get into a pissing match with those who attack someone else. My comment "It seems there are no bounds to how low some officers will go." Is about the waitress and $12,000. It says "SOME" officers, not all. It has nothing to do with this case as you state "Yeah, another unbiased statement in the context of this story." So let me do it like you do. So you are saying it is okay for officers to keep the $12,000.

    Do you really believe all officers are above board, upstanding people? There are bad apples in every profession.

    No my clearly stated view is not that all departments are corrupt. But again in light of recent events it is hard to take every word or report as total truth. As IChoseNID stated "true misconduct by police officers is unacceptable" thus saying there are indeed bad apples in departments. Do officers make mistakes? Yes. Does that make them bad people? No.

    You are adept at twisting meanings of others words to rectify your own bad behavior. I have chosen no sides in this argument. I wasn't aware there was a choice to align myself with one side or another. HAd I known that I would be choosing sides by commenting I would have never asked a question or given an opinion.You lumped me in with others you have disdain for. Do you really need me to chastise others for their verbal attacks on you, or even chastise you for your verbal attacks against them? You are the only one here who has decided to attack me for my opinions, right or wrong, and for my questions. Again, I have made no statements in fact about this case. So no embellishments or outright lies.
    I have also addressed no one here who has not addressed me first. And again yours are the only posts that are negative towards me. I have agreed with some posts as other choices could have been made. You know what they are and I need not address them again. Though I do not see all suggestions as possibilities, as shooting the engine.
    No I am not saying there are lies in these posts. I am saying I don't know, nor am I accusing anyone of anything. Other than you, obvious to me, being a very angry person.

    "Ours are just thoughts, opinions, and, at times, some embellishments."
    I am referring to people who voice their opinions here.
    People lie, But I am in no position to know what are lies from anyone here. So I will not call you or anyone else a liar unless I know facts and can see statements as wrong. And even then I doubt I would attack someone about those lies if they don't affect me. I shake my head quit often while reading through these posts. But I will not attack every poster if I disagree. I try hard not to attack anyone on a personal basis as I know none of the posters here. Please try to take my words at face value and not read between the lines with your own interjections. I have no ulterior motives or agenda here. Are you saying that corruption does not exist within police departments?

    "are you asking us to believe that you aren't part of the "us vs them"?"

    Nope, never asked that once. But I am sure you will be able to point out something I said that causes you to believe this too. I am trying to garner an understanding of the attitude, and if I am adding to it, I will work on correcting that within myself and let others deal with it on their own.

    "Then why not take ONE issue with the name-calling, accusations, and vitriol coming from that side?"

    As I already stated, I am not going to attempt to get into a pissing match with others arguments. The only reason I even mentioned you is because you indeed did lump me into your childish name calling. I didn't speak out against you until you decided I belonged to a "side" and believe I think the officers are murderers. I made no such statement, I don't believe I have said anything to even suggest that. That is something for a court of law to decide, should it go that far. If and when any of them are convicted then and only then will I refer to them as a murderer. Until then, as I have said, and you seem to ignore, I know nothing more that what is reported. And I don't believe all of what I have read.

    Yes I am lumping in police and politicians in the sense that city government has been found to assist in cover-ups. An officers training, and the choice as to how they should be trained, comes from uppers in the chain of command.

    "yet the statements you have made as outlined above clearly indicate that you believe there is an overwhelming aura of corruption within police departments and that you don't believe anything the police say."

    Wrong again, I said "I am finding it harder everyday to believe much of what comes out of any PD." I never once implied that I didn't believe anything. Again you are twisting my words to fit your agenda.

    "Are you going to be like chouli, Bill69, and Evans and ignore what I have said because it's just too uncomfortable to make admissions that YOU, not I grouped you in with the "murder" crowd? You say you have read this entire thread. Then why not take ONE issue with the name-calling, accusations, and vitriol coming from that side?"

    As I have said, I don't think you or they need me to come to the rescue and take them on for their name-calling, accusations, and vitriol towards others. I will however stand up for myself and ask no others for approval or help. You seem to want approval from NID for many of your statements. You remind me of a child hollering "Look at me."
    NID has not, as yet, lumped me in with those hollering "murder." I hope he doesn't find that necessary. He has addressed me in a civil manner. Though none here are my "com-padres" I didn't take that in a negative manner.
    I don't see the need in the name-calling, or even choosing sides. As there really are more than 2 sides here. I agree with some things within a post but perhaps not the post in its entirety. Is it really beyond you to have a conversation with someone who is not like-minded without the name calling?

    Now I am a "moron?"
    Perhaps I am for attempting any kind of civil conversation with you. But my wife always said I am a glutton for punishment.

    If I missed addressing any of your questions, accusations, or concerns please re-post them, I will be more than happy to reply.

    I do not feel the need to run and hide from you or your questions. Though I doubt any here are running and hiding, I would guess they just tired of the argument.

    I will call you a sad angry man. Other than that I don't know if you are an idiot, a moron, or any other derogatory name you may come up with, for me.

    Happy Easter!

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 12:34 pm on Sun, Apr 8, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    MtnMan: Perhaps I have been harsh in lumping you in with the "attackers" herein. But they early on chose sides and since you've entered the fray you have yet to criticize ANY of their absurd comments. They address their comments to you, and you to them.

    Here are some statements that you have made that tend to make me think that you have indeed chosen sides:

    "I am of the mind that most people believe the "us V them" attitudes started when the massive in your face kind of corruption within the PDs, and local governments began."

    "I don't see it as the WORDS of others that are causing people to believe in the "us V them."
    Rather I see it is the ACTIONS of the courts, PDs, officers, and city government that put forth this belief."
    ***************************
    So are you lumping in cops and politicians. Your clearly stated view is that Police Departments are corrupt. You have no basis upon which to believe that this incident is the result of corruption.


    "Ours are just thoughts, opinions, and, at times, some embellishments brought on by shear frustration over given situations and their outcomes."
    *****************************
    So when you say "ours" to whom are you referring? "EMBELLISHMENTS", that is exactly what is being objected to by me and others here.


    "I know you abhor the lies that are posted. But those lies will have no outcome in this, or any other case."
    *************************
    Is this another acknowledgement that there are lies posted here? Are you basically saying 'Yeah I know these anti-cop people are lying, but so what? It doesn't matter?' If the lies are being told by the anti-cop crowd then why are you railing about the "corruption" on the police departments? If the lies are being told by the "pro-cop" crowd, then what do you mean that they "will have no outcome in this, or any other case"? Somebody is lying, according to you but you brush it off as if it's meaningless.


    "We on the other hand abhor the lies and cover-ups that happen too often in government. And when it comes to our protectors getting away with murder, well we hate that even more."
    ********************************
    That statement, in the context of this discussion, clearly delineates you as one of the detractors of law enforcement. It appears to me that you chose sides. I didn't pigeon hole you.

    "I am finding it harder everyday to believe much of what comes out of any PD."
    *************************
    Really? Then how do you reconcile this statement addressed to me: "I take news articles with a grain of salt and the comments with a pound of salt." Again, in the context of this story and this discussion, are you asking us to believe that you aren't part of the "us vs them"?


    "It seems there are no bounds to how low some officers will go."
    *****************************
    Yeah, another unbiased statement in the context of this story.


    "Like many here, I question what happened to Todd and why. Too many other ways this could have been handled without a shot ever being fired. They need to stop making those "Split Second Decisions" and take the time to assess a situation. They did have him cornered in a dead end after all."
    ***************************
    Then tell us from your unbiased point of view what other ways there were to have handled it.

    You see MtnMan, it was you, not I or NID or anyone else who chose what side you wanted to align yourself with. I have repeatedly stated that I don't know if the officers were justified or not. chouli, Bill69, and Evans (floorist) have accused these officers of murder. You have not once taken them to task for their absurd conclusions, yet the statements you have made as outlined above clearly indicate that you believe there is an overwhelming aura of corruption within police departments and that you don't believe anything the police say.

    Are you going to be like chouli, Bill69, and Evans and ignore what I have said because it's just too uncomfortable to make admissions that YOU, not I grouped you in with the "murder" crowd? You say you have read this entire thread. Then why not take ONE issue with the name-calling, accusations, and vitriol coming from that side?

    Evans came in here making some of the most absurd conclusions and statements I've ever heard in 30+ years of law enforcement at the city, state and federal levels of law enforcement. After he was made a fool by his own baseless arguments, he disappeared.

    Law Enforcement Officers and I have been called corrupt, thugs, nitwits, thugbots, and by extension, murderers. If I walked up to you on the street, not knowing you, and called you a thug and a murderer would you call me an idiot or would you say, "Thank you sir may I have another"?

    You cast your lots with those morons, not me!

     
  • MtnMan posted at 11:21 am on Sun, Apr 8, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    IChoseNID

    I have read every post in this forum and I truly can understand his animosity towards some. But rest assured I have no such animosity for his claimed profession. Let's be honest here, Rogue has done his share of agitating as well. As is evidenced by his accusations of me being in a "love fest" being a "stooge" and an "idiot." All his words. You can't blame others for your own behaviors. And to lump an entire civilian society into his tirades is wrong. I have given him no reason to attack me or my character. I have accused none of anything. I have not stated anything as fact other than my own opinions and those are, in fact, how I see things. I have not claimed to know any facts of this case or how it was or wasn't handled. Do I believe it may have been handled differently? Yes I do, but as I stated before that is not for me to say. Only my own useless, unimportant opinions.

    I have asked a couple of questions that have been glossed over or ignored. I ask in earnest as I do not know. Instead of showing animosity towards all, how about help educate those who question? Neither of you are under any obligation to be helpful in this forum, but I see no positive outcome from attacking people for their opinions or questions. Another opinion of mine is his attitude towards me adds to the rift between the police and the citizens. Rogue comes across, to me, as a very angry person. Striking out at anything and everything that doesn't wear the blue uniform.

    If he acts this way towards unseen faces I can only imagine how he treats citizens in a personal meeting.

    And for you to make excuses for him is also wrong. Circle your wagons against those who attack, not the innocent bystanders seeking answers. If I have said something that deserves his attitude please point it out so I can apologize. I am human and make mistakes. My only agenda is to seek knowledge.

    Is it time for him to visit a shrink? PTSD perhaps? Maybe an extended vacation is in order? Or even consider retirement before he snaps. I have seen it said about druggies and their friends, "If he was a good friend he would have tried to get him off drugs." Well I say to you, If you are a good friend, you should assist him in getting help for his anger issues. These are not accusations, as I have no personal knowledge of Rogue, but rather opinions based on what I see here in this forum.

    Do you yourself have no concerns on the "us V them" issue? Wouldn't it be better to work toward an end to that mentality on both sides of the fence?

    As to this article I have questions about what the writer says he saw. He claims he saw officers removing things from the car and then says he believed they were planting evidence. How did he come to that conclusion? He even questions the why of that himself. I personally don't think the officers would find it necessary, or even attempt to plant evidence on a wanted criminal. They already have cause to apprehend him. But only he could answer that question.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 8:30 am on Sun, Apr 8, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    MtnMan,

    Please read the comments by others directed at Rogue, and at his apparent profession before you question his animosity. Ask why wholesale animosity towards an entire profession is acceptable.

    As far as the "us vs. them", it's the chicken and the egg. Who knows how it started.

    The police are usually dealing with negativity, and people who aren't happy with them. They're writing you a ticket, arresting you for DUI, bringing your drunk 17 year old home, telling you to turn your music down, or coming to take a report of your house being broken into, (and why weren't they there when it happened). There's probably less of that negativity in a smaller town on a daily basis, but it's cumulative. A police officer who is productive and hard working, will be rewarded not by a grateful public, but by a higher number of phony complaints and false accusations of misconduct. After a while, it's human nature to become guarded and negative towards the public. Some are more affected by it than others.

    The bottom line is that true misconduct by police officers is unacceptable. But when they regularly have to deal with crazy accusations as suggested by some in this thread, don't be surprised when they circle the wagons. You would defend those you work with too, if you saw them being falsely attacked on a regular basis.

     
  • chouli posted at 7:03 pm on Sat, Apr 7, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    mtnman,
    dont waste your breath on either of them. they dont know how to be civil. the rest of us have tried and we're done trying. personally, I just ignore their snarky comments. it's all they have.

     
  • MtnMan posted at 5:43 pm on Sat, Apr 7, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    Wow Rogue.
    I do not understand your animosity towards me when we have never had a conversation to this point.
    I would hardly think that being courteous to someone would be considered a "love fest."
    I have neither condemned nor praised the officers involved that evening. Like many intelligent people, I wondered why things weren't handled differently. But am very willing to await the outcome of the investigation and accept that outcome. Are you? I will not even say it SHOULD have been handled differently. That is not for me to decide. I would always like to see a "happy" ending for all involved. I would even go so far as to say, as I truly believe, these officers will have a long lasting effect from this tragedy. And I do not envy that for a moment.
    I would hate to be put in a situation where I felt forced to take someone's life.
    I claim no firsthand knowledge of the incident. I also have no idea where the lies end and the truth begins. I can't very well call someone a liar without knowing any true facts. I take news articles with a grain of salt and the comments with a pound of salt. I will not be hollering cover-up unless at some point in time that would also be proven. I have no interest in conspiracy theories, or any other kind of theories for that matter. Facts will stand on their own and the outcome will be what it will be.

    Sorry you feel I am a "stooge" for having questions and for posting how I see things in my own mind re the "us V them" issue. I was hoping someone might be able to perhaps answer those questions or give me better insight into what I truly don't know. I also was hoping IChoseNID might give me feedback on the "us V them" issue. I am interested in both sides of the issue, as I am sure it is perpetuated by both sides, and am willing to be open minded about it. Without all the petty bickering and name calling because we have differing views.


     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 10:37 am on Sat, Apr 7, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    NID...I purposely stayed out of this thread for a couple of days just to watch it foment into additional theories and conclusions. You are right that the 4 stooges aren't interested in the truth.

    Has anybody noticed that it's turned into a love fest between MtnMan, chouli and Billy? When there is no one to challenge their idiocy they just let their theories run even more unchecked. It's like a snow ball rolling downhill. floorist, chouli, and Billy had dozens of questions trying to corner me into one of their porous traps. I answered ALL of their challenges and then asked them a few questions that they refuse to answer because they know they would look even more ignorant than they do now.

    Interestingly enough, it's you and I and a few others who haven't made any definitive conclusions about this, and in fact said that the officers may or may not have acted within the law, BUT WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO BE ABLE MAKE THAT DETERMINATION, AND NEITHER DO THEY. The three stooges though, have done their amateur investigation and the more they talk to themselves, the more they're convinced that they alone know the truth.

    Another interesting fact is that chouli, MtnMan, and Billy saw or heard NOTHING on the night in question. Evans saw some of what happened (after he got up off the floor...hence the tag "floorist"), heard most of it, and theorized ALL of it upon which the three of them are relying. Thank God, ignorant civilians like these aren't the ones making determinations on legal questions.

    Darn, larrylrjr figured out who I am. I'll be addressing future comments from my jail cell.

    Well, Billy will post another 20 paragraphs now but won't respond to me directly because he says he won't read anymore of what I have to say. floorist is still MIA. Cowards will do that. They like throwing rocks and then running away or sniping from the shadows and then disappearing into the night. Very predictable.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 9:52 am on Sat, Apr 7, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    MtnMan,

    You and your compadres are certainly free to postulate as many theories and conjectures as you wish, regardless of the lack of evidence, or even scientific possibility of them being true. That's the beauty of free speech.

    But I'm also free to point out that those who claim to be dishing out "facts", when it's merely their ignorant opinion, or even their purposeful mistruths, aren't any better than the corrupt officials they claim to be attacking.

    Your opinions aren't all completely unreasonable. There are questions about what happened that night. And I would hope most are open to hearing those questions answered. But I'm confident that some who posted here have zero interest in any version of the story that doesn't match their preconceived ideas. They "know" what they know, and would never let facts get in the way of that.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 9:32 am on Sat, Apr 7, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    larrylrjr, you signed up just for that moronic one liner?

     
  • larrylrjr posted at 6:26 am on Sat, Apr 7, 2012.

    larrylrjr Posts: 1

    THE TRUE IDENTITY OF THE ROGUE COP HAS BEEN CONFIRMED..... IT'S KARL THOMPSON

     
  • Bill69 posted at 6:13 pm on Fri, Apr 6, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    chouli; I'm sorry, but I have to correct you - this was in no way a "SHOOT OUT", this was a "SHOOT AT!". A shoot out is when shots are being fired back and forth by the suspect and the police - not at all the case here. And for me, that's one of the main things that is so troubling about this case. I mean, if it was a shoot-out and he got killed or injured, oh well, shame on him - but if he was just fleeing from a warrant and had no history of violence (including no gun charges), and he was cut down like a mad dog, then it generates questions which, as concerned citizens, we have every right to ask about whether it's asking each other - or them, when the time is right.

    In the meantime, I agree that we should not allow this to go away in the absence of the conclusion of investigations. And that happens more often than we realize. Investigations get bogged down and drug out for what seems like an eternity, and by the time they conclude, the paper gives it a brief summary without any investigative reporting on the investigation reports - and that's the end of it. And by then, of course, the next clearly questionable death of a citizen at the hands of police has captured our attention and the last one gets lost in the shuffle. NOT THIS TIME!!!

    The fact that Justin Todd had a passenger who was apparently not wanted by the police for anything, and they pumped 12-shots into the driver's side door and window ANYWAY - raises the question of whether this was excessive force or murder, or at least excessive force for the purpose of murder. To suggest that because cops kill civilians in the course of their duties it cannot be termed 'murder' under any circumstances is nonsense.

    1) I contend that they intended to kill Justin Todd by pumping 12-shots into the driver's side door and window of his vehicle while he still occupied it.

    2) I contend that they could have safely ended the chase with spike strips before it's conclusion in the cul de sac. We have all seen this used effectively on T.V. many times.

    3) I contend that the police demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt a total disregard for human life that night whether Todd's or his passengers.

    I don't know personally if Justin Todd was killed that night for what he may or may not have known concerning the police - but I do know that folks do not fire 12-shots into the driver's side door and window of a vehicle when the driver is still occupying it UNLESS you want to make sure that he (the driver) does not leave that vehicle alive!

     
  • chouli posted at 1:06 pm on Fri, Apr 6, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    if Todd was wanted for not showing up for court and eluding LE, but his crimes were for mostly drug related issues and probation violations, why the big yank to shoot him? doesn’t make sense does it?

    why would he merit a high speed chase and a deadly shootout when he was cornered and didn’t have anywhere else to go? doesn’t make sense does it?

    and why would any LE officer shoot into a vehicle with a passenger inside unless they didn’t really care if she was also a casualty or not? doesn’t make sense, does it?

    why are there rumors of Todd knowing too much about some of LE’s shenanigans when it comes to cops getting a little too involved in the money of the drug biz? makes ya wonder, doesn’t it?

    doesn’t it seem like they used a little too much force and and a little too much zeal in getting this guy taken care of? and who is protecting the girlfriend so she can one day testify about all that happened?? wouldn’t you think her testimony is pretty darned important?

    let’s hope for a thorough investigation and justice. I’m hoping this isn’t pushed under the rug. Let’s not let this be forgotten.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 12:01 pm on Fri, Apr 6, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Wow, MtnMan, your insight into this amazes me. You have a very tasteful, yet profound way of expressing yourself. I know it's easy for all of us to view these things in hindsight and question the outcome, or make rash statements concerning the events that occurred (or should have occurred), but what else do we have to make any juddgements or comments at all - except 'hindsight'?

    Let's be honest, all we have to work with (until the investigations are completed) are media reports which consist mostly of what the police have released to them. For the most part, these reports are not really questioned by the media, and again, I think this may be due, in part, to the fact that they are also awaiting the results of the investigations and have a responsibility to not attempt to unduly influence those investigations.

    We, on the other hand, are not media. But because our info is extremely limited that doesn't mean that we cannot kick-around what we do have, and ask our own questions concerning it. As you so adequately stated, our opinions cannot influence anything, or anyone, who has anything to do with determining the outcome of this (or any) case.

    Is it a 'lie' for me to state my humble opinion (and I have never called it anything else) that cops who pump 12-rounds into the driver's side door and window of an unarmed fugitive's vehicle are by all accounts attempting to KILL him? And if it turns out that "spike strips" could have (or should have) been used to stop the fleeing vehicle (even before the conclusion of the chase), and that very sane option was ignored by police, then I believe it's reasonable to question their agenda on that night.

    And if Justin Todd, while having a criminal history, was never convicted for what they themselves define as a "violent crime", then why is the "VIOLENT CRIMES TASK FORCE" involved in his case at all? In fact, I don't recall even seeing ONE case where the Violent Crimes Task Force has been involved in the apprehension of one who fits their own definition of a violent criminal. So if there are not enough VIOLENT CRIMINALS to keep such a Task Force busy - then why not save the poor tax-payers some money (a lot of money actually) and dis-band that unit until perhaps it is truly needed?

    These are increasingly difficult economic times people. Many today are losing jobs, cars, homes - and yes, eventually families, but politicians and Law Enforcement are still spending OUR MONEY as if we still had the same amount that we did in years past. Yeah, there are 'budget cuts', but there is still a lot of room for cutting spending on things that do not require that amount of spending, or eliminating it all together.

    In any case, thank you, MtnMan, for your very insightful comments on this issue, and I for one hope to hear from you again REAL soon!

     
  • MtnMan posted at 9:44 am on Fri, Apr 6, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    IChoseNID

    I can see where you believe that the public conviction of these officers would make you think it adds to the "us V them" attitude.

    I really don't see it that way. I am of the mind that most people believe the "us V them" attitudes started when the massive in your face kind of corruption within the PDs, and local governments began.
    I see it as the outcome of, at times, very questionable cases either being thrown out or the officer(s) involved get a slap on the hand and a paid vacation to boot.

    When an officer gets convicted of a crime, why is the sentence so much lower than any normal citizen?

    I don't see it as the WORDS of others that are causing people to believe in the "us V them."
    Rather I see it is the ACTIONS of the courts, PDs, officers, and city government that put forth this belief.

    Where do you think the "us V them" belief comes from?

    Ours are just thoughts, opinions, and, at times, some embellishments brought on by shear frustration over given situations and their outcomes.

    I know you abhor the lies that are posted. But those lies will have no outcome in this, or any other case.

    We on the other hand abhor the lies and cover-ups that happen too often in government. And when it comes to our protectors getting away with murder, well we hate that even more.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 6:28 pm on Thu, Apr 5, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Thanks for answering my question, chouli?

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 12:42 pm on Thu, Apr 5, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    MtnMan,

    I love "questions". I think questioning government, and authority, is appropriate, and a civic duty. That is quite different than the wild accusations, ignorant postulations, and lies some here have put forth.

    There will be plenty of time to question the investigation, and it's outcome. Convicting the officers before the facts come out just adds to the "us vs them" mentality.

     
  • MtnMan posted at 10:40 am on Thu, Apr 5, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    Thanks Bill,

    I am finding it harder everyday to believe much of what comes out of any PD. I have kept up with the Zehm case for years. Now I read a story about a PD keeping $12,000 that had been given to a waitress because they say it "smells like pot." It seems there are no bounds to how low some officers will go. It is right for citizens to question and not take the word of the PDs. Growing up I felt safer knowing an officer was around, not so now.

    I believe any and all videos should be turned over to a citizens review board. Ever since Steve Tucker edited out some of the Zehm videos I have no faith or trust in the "just-us" system handling them.

    I have no hatred for police, but I abhor the corruption that is running rampant within the system.

    Like many here, I question what happened to Todd and why. Too many other ways this could have been handled without a shot ever being fired. They need to stop making those "Split Second Decisions" and take the time to assess a situation. They did have him cornered in a dead end after all.

    chouli that I.Q. article was quite an eye opener for me. It really does explain, to me, a lot of the problems we see in PDs these days. I got to this article by a link (you?) posted in the Spokesman story on this article.

    Some of the folks posting here remind me of the Facebook 505 gang. I asked a question on that 505 page once, not accusing anyone of anything and, like some of you here have been, I was raked over the coals for it.

    I take these articles and comments with a grain of salt, so to speak. Too many emotions have been interjected. So one has to be careful trying to weed out the facts at times.

    The truly sad thing is these types of incidents are happening nation wide.

    I wonder at times what they think "Being held to a higher standard" really means to them. I see no high standards these days.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 10:17 am on Thu, Apr 5, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    The hand wringing over "police investigating police" is always amusing. People act as if "the police" are independent bodies that answer to no one. Police chiefs serve at the pleasure of the elected officials who hire and fire them.

    "Wow, after investigating, many times the police end up exonerating the police"! Although that always validates the anti-police crowd's theory of "corruption", the real reason is the police operate under the rule of law, and have to deal with FACTS. Not half baked theories, wild accusations, and out and out fabrications, such as those that have been posted here.

    So as usual, unless the outcome of the investigation is what they WANT it to be, (even though they don't have all the facts, understand or care about the law, mechanics, ballistics, physics, or other realities), the anti-police will continue bleating about police "corruption".

     
  • chouli posted at 8:35 am on Thu, Apr 5, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    thx MtnMan, great link. kinda expalins a lot, huh. LOL
    have any of you ben following the SR story on this? it was front page yesterday. nice. not much investigative reporting tho, seemed like a reprint of the CDA Press. hope to see more on this story as the investigation of the police by the police concludes...

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/apr/04/fatal-end-to-police-chase-captured-on-home-video/

     
  • Bill69 posted at 11:59 pm on Wed, Apr 4, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    A different approach indeed. Glad to have you on board, MtnMan. And that's all I am saying. And yes, we do all have to await the results of the investigations, but if you have read anything about the police investigations involving Otto Zehm, and others, then you might have reason to be suspicious whenever the police start investigating the police. That's a long URL, but I will investigate it tomorrow.

     
  • MtnMan posted at 8:06 pm on Wed, Apr 4, 2012.

    MtnMan Posts: 56

    This might help to explain the comments of some on here.
    http://nyletterpress.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/police-reject-candidate-for-being-too-intelligent/

    I am really not sure what to make of all this. It does seem to me that being cornered on a dead end road might suggest a different approach to the situation. I guess we shall see what the outcome is.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 1:10 pm on Tue, Apr 3, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    chouli: "rogue, why do you think it's appropriate for you to act like such an obnoxious bully?"
    **********************************
    If taking on liars, bullies, and hypocrites is bullying...then I'm guilty as charged, obnoxious or otherwise.

    Why do you think it's appropriate for you to call people murderers, thugbots, nitwits, etc.?

    Hypocrite!

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:46 am on Tue, Apr 3, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Billy, I thought you weren't going to read any more of my comments or respond to them. I knew that was a lie when you said it.

    The only person who wants this thread shut down is Evans. That's why he has disappeared. I hope it keeps going so that I can continue to set the record straight. If I wanted it shut down, I would simply stop posting comments, but that's what draws you and others out to keep making your moronic comments, and exposes your irrational theories. Tracks in the grass, the grassy knoll, the barking dog, the knock on the wall....too bad Evans didn't have audio to go with his video. I'm sure the cops would have been heard saying, "Come on guys. Lets kill him. He know something about Post Falls Police. We've been hunting him down for weeks and finally we found him. Hey, point those dash cams in a different direction because I don't want them showing me murdering this guy." Oh my God, his steering wheel turned to the left after I murdered him. You know what that means, don't you?"

    No no, Billy...keep on keeping on!

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 12:07 am on Tue, Apr 3, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    Bill, your phony shock about how those you disagree with act on this board isn't fooling anyone. You and your cohorts have dished out plenty.

    You just keep ignoring anything that doesn't fit in with your fantasized version of what happened. I'll stay with the thinking crowd, concentrate on facts, and wait for the system to work.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 9:32 pm on Mon, Apr 2, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    chouli, I guess you forgot what he is about? His deal all along has been to disrupt this thread and attempt to get it shut down by issuing silly threats, name calling, and demeaning comments about all comments that don't line up behind his. Like all rogue cops he is demented, i.e., not right in the head. He and his kind are through on this thread because we have (especially My2sense) exposed his reasons for his threats, name calling, demeaning comments, etc. They want to shut it down, chouli, do you not see that? The more you address him, the longer he can hang on because even though you say: "...spare me any reply cuz I don't care..." you have still given him recognition that he does not deserve and the opportunity to respond either directly or indirectly with the same obnoxious comments. You now know WHY he thinks "...its appropriate to act like such an obnoxious bully..."

    I encourage people to stick to the thread in a serious way because that's exactly what they don't want. Now there are some things about the thread that I have issues with. For example, Evans states that: "From our (camera's) perspective the suspect's vehicle entered the cul de sac, and upon braking the car's tires lost traction on the icy pavement and skidded into the neighbor's roadside grass swale. While that may have happened, I don't get all that from the camera's perspective myself. So he either needs to re-word that, or show us a different camera angle.

    On the other hand, Evans says that the first shots were fired by the P.F. officer AT THE SAME TIME that the ISP officer was exiting his vehicle. I don't really see that on the video, but then I am not a video expert. Because I don't see it doesn't by any means suggest that it isn't there, it just means that I don't see it. If that's the case, Justin Todd may have been hit by that volley of bullets and may have been guilty of nothing other than attempting to save his own life and that of his girlfriend. The ISP officer could have deliberately put himself in the path of that vehicle in such a way that he was assured of minimal injury and yet seemed justified in the killing of Todd. Especially if the suspect vehicle was traveling as slowly as Evans claims it was after that first volley. I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just saying that if these were the true circumstances described by Evans then it is entirely possible that it could have happened that way.

    It does appear from the video that the P.F. officer (probably Brad Johnson) fired that first volley rather quickly in a situation where he himself was not being fired upon. If it turns out that the ISP officer was in fact just exiting his vehicle then he obviously could not have been struck with the suspect's vehicle yet so how would those shots be justified? If the ISP officer was struck AFTER the first volley of shots, then Justin may have been trying to leave the scene simply to try and avoid his own death and that of his girlfriend. Who could blame him really? I mean if they are going to "shoot first and ask questions later" then I would attempt to flee also, and so would any jury member.

    These are samples of the questions that the investigation is going to have to answer to the satisfaction of the public who is going to be scrutinizing the results. Even if the video didn't show it clearly, if the car was in fact mired in the icy grassy swale, then tire tracks should provide evidence of that. Cars leave tracks in wet grass. According to Evans it was in the swale when the first shots were fired, and if that's true, and the ISP officer was just exiting his vehicle so could not yet have been hit with the suspect's vehicle then WHY WERE THOSE SHOTS FIRED??? I'm not saying those are the true circumstances, I am only saying that if they are then THAT question has to be ANSWERED (among others).

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:11 pm on Mon, Apr 2, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    I'm sorry chouli...did I introduce "nitwit" into this discussion? Or "tugbots"? Or "thugbot pals"

    It breaks my heart that you don't think I'm REAL or even in law enforcement, chouli. If I am so "unreal" as you claim, then it must be doubly embarrassing that I can lap you so readily on the IQ track.

    You accuse officers of murder with absolutely no evidence to support that absurd conclusion. You engage in name-calling and post lies and innuendo and then become insulted when someone returns the favor. I'm beginning to think that you're a masochist who is dressed in fishnets and a thong, flogging herself with a cat-o-nine tails for each time she is verbally thrashed?

    I gave up trying to get through to you stooges a long time ago - you are agitators, not a debaters. You seek to inflame... and I don't have time for folks like ya'll. Truth, though, is a mightier sword than silly videos and speculation.

    As for MIA Evans, he suffers from an over-inflated sense of self and believes he will suddenly grow a cerebral cortex capable of a cogent retort? He fashions himself an investigative reporter. Yeah right. Engaging an investigator in the medium of writing... yeah... way the heck out of your league. I'd suggest, perhaps, the least intelligent member of a Kindergarten class. That's about your speed.

    Evans: I know you don't mind looking like the dumb jerk that you are... but if you'd had even an inkling of knowledge on the topic... you'd know that arguing the law and evidence with an investigator, you pompous twit, would be pointless.

    I haven't forgot about you, Billy. More later!

     
  • chouli posted at 7:03 pm on Mon, Apr 2, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    rogue, why do you think it's appropriate for you to act like such an obnoxious bully to everyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you? you are hateful and demeaning and need to stop spouting your contempt at everyone.

    I guess it's all you have, and that's pretty pathetic too. you drag the entire conversation down to where it's nothing but assinine name calling. YOU are the one that always starts it and you are the one that keeps it going. but of course you can only name call and lie about the rest of us. spare me any reply cuz i don't care...

    go kansas! ;-)

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 1:19 pm on Mon, Apr 2, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    As for "substance", floorist doesn't not understand the concept... as is evidenced by his ridiculous inability to realize that this entire thread was created NOT on the basis of any substance, but rather, in discussion of HIM and his insignificant attempts at bullying.

    Nope, this thread was, in the final analysis, about floorist... and there's certainly NO substance THERE to discuss.

    His desertion of the mess he's created is evidence of his cowardice.

     
  • VandalJosh posted at 12:31 pm on Mon, Apr 2, 2012.

    VandalJosh Posts: 106

    Bill69, I thought I was being a serious poster. Now please give us some more specifics on these rumors (I assure you I have my serious face on), because from what I can tell, you are the only one having heard them and probably the source of them.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:28 am on Mon, Apr 2, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Looks like My2SCENTS went to the same pre-school as the other 3 bozos.

     
  • My2sence posted at 8:11 am on Mon, Apr 2, 2012.

    My2sence Posts: 317

    They finally broke you Rogue.......YOUR FINISHED, i love your "I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude you have now, I can just picture you screaming your head off, blood pressure rising, veins in the neck poping out...haha YOUR DONE RC .
    crybaby

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 12:00 am on Mon, Apr 2, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    VandalJosh: Wild Billy69, floorist (who is MIA), and chouli aren't going to read my comments anymore so allow me to address my feelings about los tres amigas to you, MMMMM, cougar, IChose NID, ggggggg, and to the other law abiding folks herein:

    Re: floorist---Pathetic.This is, truly, painful to watch. Troy, you are the human embodiment of an intellectual train wreck... only... your brain can only muster up Tyco trains and three feet of track. What a lackwit. Hint, lackwit - I don't have to justify myself to the likes of you. Your opinion of me is as meaningless as all your other unfounded opinions.

    Shortly, I'll go to bed, and get sleep... whilst you... you will still be a socially stunted a$$hat with you know...I don't think you're CREATIVE enough to have delusions of grandeur. You have delusions of mediocrity. The sad thing is, based on what you've had to say for the last couple weeks, and what you try to pass for quick wit and intellect... I don't think you could RISE to mediocrity.
    Go ahead... act like I'm supposed to care what a jackwad with a subzero IQ and the vocabulary of a ground slug thinks... make another stupid remark... we haven't seen the limits of your asinine ignorance yet.

    I have not slept in 34 hours... worked all weekend...am utterly exhausted...and this guy still isn't even close to a challenge. I've owned smarter dogs. Where does The Press dig up such obtuse simpletons?

    I'd suggest you go back to cowering in deluded, self-righteous seclusion... because it'd be a full time job to even attempt to correct what you call a witnessing an event.
    **************************

    chouli: My desire is to focus on how you cannot even implement language correctly. Your inability to understand that demonstrates how hollow your head is. I knew you wouldn't heed my advice... your desire to sound quasi-intelligent trumps what little sense you have.

    Allow me to teach you, if you are capable of learning, what IRONY is. No, it's not what you do with your shirts and that steaming hot iron... it's what you call it when a moron attempts to trap someone by asking a dozen questions, and then, not understanding the answers, ignores them and the follow-up questions and says, "I'm not going to answer your questions".
    ********************************

    Bill69: I'm flattered that, in your attempts at wit, striving to make your point, you sat and read all of my comments. Sorry you didn't understand the words with more than one syllable. I am obviously far more important to you than you are to me. Of course, that's not saying much, as you are hilariously irrelevant to me... heck, I still don't even remember shredding your insignificant pseudo-intellect the LAST time around... but if you are in need of being put in your place again... well... the amount of time it takes to do that is so infinitesimally small that the only thing I can compare it to is that aforementioned pseudo-intellect of yours.
    I think I can spare the nanoseconds it takes to best the likes of you.

    Only two things are infinite... the universe... and stupidity... and we're not sure about the universe. Of course, attempting to debate the 3 stooges, I have been recently told, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon will just knock over the pieces, zhit on the board, and then strut around like he's victorious.
    ***********************

    To the 3 Stooges: I don't have time to decipher your dead brain cell scrolls. Heck, if I wanted to kill as many brain cells as I just did reading your drivel, I'd drink a can of beer. Your negative balance explains the lack of anything resembling sense. Maybe if you lie perfectly still, shut your mouths, and let your brains try to regenerate some of those cells, you could potentially begin being a valuable contributor to debate roughly by the time Steven Seagal wins a Best Actor Oscar. Give it a try.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 10:12 pm on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    I really apologize Josh, I mistook you for a serious poster. Rest assured that I will never make that mistake again. No, I don't make it a habit of responding in a cogent, specific way to trash talk.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 5:45 pm on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    VandalJosh: You don't really think that Billy will respond to you in any cogent specific way do you? It's easy to make wild accusations and let them float around. Having the courage to back up those accusations is...well...something you won't see for the 3 stooges.

     
  • VandalJosh posted at 4:23 pm on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    VandalJosh Posts: 106

    Wow. Alright, well I haven't heard any of the rumors about him having dirt on PFPD and them killing him to cover it up. Since you are so willing to type every other rumor, why don't you tell us what he knew? Or will they kill you then to? I was only being sarcastic about the governor being involved, but you probably believed that, huh? Here's what you do: 1. Write a letter detailing everything you know 2. Mail letter to every newspaper in a 100 mile radius (including supermarket tabloids to increase likelihood of story being printed) 3. Rent movie Conspiracy Theory and watch repeatedly until Dec 21 when the aliens beam you up

    Again, please inform us what this guy knew that supposedly got him killed.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 3:42 pm on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Josh, I did go from being suspicious to accusing them of murder but not because I wanted to deceive anyone with regard to my intentions when I first posted, but because I read (and re-read, and re-read) the letter by Evans. The more I read it, the more I became convinced that there were alternative choices the cops could have made at the conclusion of the chase and before. Choices that would have resulted in a resolution that did not involve the loss of life. Am I angry - you bet I am! It was almost as if they intended to kill this man all along and were just waiting for the right opportunity. I don't belong to any right wing, or left wing or any other wing, I am simply a concerned citizen who wants to see justice done in this matter.

    If I have pre-judged it then it is because I have only heard one side of the story (the investigation is not completed yet). And when I hear the other side then I will re-evaluate all the information I have in light of the new information, and who knows, maybe my opinion will change, or maybe it will become even more entrenched depending on what info the investigation reveals (or fails to reveal). I do know that cover-ups are not at all uncommon in these situations, esp. when they catch the public sleeping on their job.

    But what I believe right now, based on everything I could get my hands on to read, is that excessive force was used in an apparent premeditated manner intended to kill the suspect. This is evidenced by the fact that the officers involved did NOT attempt to block the vehicle, did not attempt to shoot out the tires to disable the vehicle, and did not attempt to use 'spike strips' to disable the vehicle prior to the conclusion of the chase. Wolfinger says that Todd was shot after an officer was struck with the vehicle, but you know what - Wolfinger wasn't there! He is only reporting what has been told to him by officers who put themselves in a position where they had absolutely no other justification for killing this unarmed man. How do we know that the ISP officer didn't SLIP AND FALL also, and went to the hospital with injuries from falling on the ice when he was scrambling to get in position, and then just used those injuries to claim he was struck with the vehicle? We do know that in either case they were apparently minor injuries.

    A lot of questions need to be asked and answered here to keep this investigation from the kind of corruption we have all witnessed in the past. To say that they only had seconds to act is nonsense. They had time to think about what actions they could possible take throughout the entire chase. How many senarios are possible in such a situation? The suspect car crashes and stops, the suspect car continues to run until he is stopped by police spike strips or the police shooting out his tires on the highway and is stopped, or the suspect vehicle is allowed to run until it exhausts it's fuel supply and it stops. All of these officers have experienced all of these very basic senarios at some time or other, so they had PLENTY OF TIME to decide how they would attempt to manage whichever one occured here.

    And they all knew that it was possible that the suspect vehicle might get stuck and then unstuck and that the suspect would attempt to continue his eluding effort - and they had plenty of time to think about what they would do if that situation occurred because they have all been in that situation in the past also. Now there may be times when officers only have split seconds to decide what to do in a given situation - but THIS is NOT one of them. Maybe they thought that this guy was making fools of them as this was not the first time that he had escaped and/or eluded them successfully. They may have just determined that it was not going to happen again - EVER ! Or he may have had some actual dirt on the P.F. department - dirt that may have resulted in someone being demoted, fired or even brought up on charges and they were going to make sure that this SCUM BAG was not going to ever say or do anything to hurt one of them.

    These things happen around the country - so it's not an impossibility. I know I am going to stay on it (unless they stop and kill me). I mean it almost seems like anyone who is not 'someone' is fair game for them. Otto Zehm had no criminal record, and there have been numerous others who didn't either. They were just poor nobodys who it seems were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or were simply targeted for extinction. When you have city attorneys counseling officers how to lie in court to protect another lying officer - you know that the whole system is corrupt.

    And it's not that I personally hate cops - I just seem to do better when they aint around.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 3:32 pm on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    VandalJosh: Don't even try to understand these uneducated rubes. They've convinced themselves and that's all that matters to them, because obviously FACTS don't matter.

    The guy that started all this is a deserter, and the other two are left to clean his floor where he spent his time hiding and then wrote a book about what he didn't see. His lap dogs are lapping it all up without knowing the recipe.

    Ignorance is bliss!

     
  • VandalJosh posted at 2:58 pm on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    VandalJosh Posts: 106

    I don't really understand the comparison between cops and the general public defending their own life. Only 5-8 years ago a guy robbed a gas station out at stateline with a toy gun. The attendant pulled his own gun and chased the guy through the parking lot and across the street. The police found him struck in a barbwire fence with multiple bullet holes in his back. That was determined to be a justified killing. Bottom line, if you have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger, you have the right to defend yourself. That is was this all going to come down to. Did they believe this officers life was in danger? It doesn't matter if the ISP Trooper should have stayed in the car/used a spike strip/fast roped onto hood of moving car from space.

    If you really believe that this is a giant coverup and murder because of some pillow talk that your cousin's sheep told you then so be it. All you two are doing is trying to get people worked up before all the facts are known. That junk about PFPD sounds like the storyline in 16 Blocks. Have you called the governor to let him know what's going on. Or do you think he's in on it. How high does this go? If only we had investigative reporting. They are the true heroes of this world, isn't that right choulie. Also, my bad. I thought the cat was just ugly. I didn't realize that was an angry/wet look on its face.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 2:06 pm on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    That's exactly right, My2sence, they want this post shut down and the sooner the better. Vandal Josh and Rogue Cop? Sounds like the same person? Anyway, I like what Evans' said:

    "It took no longer than 10-seconds for three armed gunmen to kill a person. Ten precious seconds that were carelessly used to end a desperate life in lieu of SANELY taking the time to assess and already bad situation and make a different choice."

    I am faulted for agreeing with the notion that DIFFERENT CHOICES could have (and should have) been made in this situation. Choices that would NOT have ended in the loss of life. Why is it when cops take human life unnecessarily it's called EXCESSIVE FORCE, and when citizens take life unnecessarily it's called MURDER? There sure is a major difference in the sentencing I know that. There is a DOUBLE STANDARD running throughout this so-called JUST-US system, and the people are really getting sick of it. Chouli raises a good point. Why, after already being convicted of lying to federal investigators about murdering a mentally challenge man named Otto Zehm, and having already been convicted of using EXCESSIVE FORCE to accomplish that murder, is EX-officer Thompson still allowed to walk the streets until his appeal is heard? That's UNHEARD of! That's the DOUBLE STANDARD in action.

    Evans' claims that when officers fired their weapons in three different directions in the direction of nearby homes that it constituted GROSS NEGLIGENCE regarding the public's safety. I don't disagree with that statement. A bullet could have easily gone astray and it could have injured or killed an innocent bystander. That is didn't (in this case) does not invalidate the 'negligent factor'.

    Evans says that "By all accounts the driver's side door was struck with bullets no fewer than eight times. Actually, according to Press reports, photos show that at least a dozen bullet holes were in the driver's side door and window. How many shots were fired, and where Todd was struck, and how many times, and which agency and officers shot Todd is information NOT BEING RELEASED by the KCSD because it's still under investigation.

    But despite the fact that no other information can be released because it's still under investigation, officer Wolfinger, the spokesman for the KCSD said that:

    "The shots were fired after the officer was struck with the vehicle."

    Yet he does not tell us which officer was struck nor the location of where it took place. Nor does he attempt to explain why the vehicle was not disabled prior to the conclusion of the chase (spike strips). Nor does he explain why the officers did not attempt to block the subject vehicle and/or shoot out the tires (both police tactics that we see successfully used on television all the time and ALWAYS end without a loss of life where the suspect is unarmed). These are questions that a JURY will ask themselves - if they ever get the chance to.

    But I agree with you, My2sence, I don't think this investigation will result in anything but another white-wash. One reason is because there are two different agencies involved in the shooting, and one happens to be an ISP officer. The state is NOT going to let one of their own take a fall for this even if it is a bad shoot. And they have the juice and the resources to make sure that the investigation goes the way they want it to. And the Feds won't touch it because Todd wasn't actually in police custody. The only way the feds would get involved in this is if the investigation were so filled with really blatant lies and false or altered reports that the public said in mass, YOU WILL GET INVOLVED!!!

    The P.F police officers (likely Brad Johnson who fired the first volley of bullets) just wanted to be the one to take out THE FUGITIVE OF THE WEEK. I mean who is going to seriously question that trophy among his peers? In fact, as soon as they whitewash this investigation they will probably promote him to captain. But the fact remains that Justin Todd did not have a criminal history that involved violent crimes, nor did he have any history of carrying a concealed weapon - AND THEY ALL KNEW THAT! They knew that they could shoot at him all day long and never have to worry about being shot at themselves. You talk about COWARDS!


     
  • chouli posted at 12:31 pm on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    josh, facts are pretty hard to come by when there's nearly zero investigative reporting being done. oh, I suppose we could just close our eyes and believe everything the police report because it's clear they have only an objective view and nothing to hide...LOL

    I'm virtually a nobody and yet even I know there's more to this story. I've heard a few rumors that Mr. Todd knew a little too much about some dirty little secrets of the PF police's finest. maybe it's true and maybe it isn't...but kinda strange that an aprehension for failing to appear for court has turned into his violent death. hmmm. even regular folks might start to have second thoughts.

    regardless of what rogue and his sweetheart mmm continue to spout, there are an awful lot of excessive force questions and LE related shootings and citizen deaths in this area--north idaho and spokanistan area. karl thompson still isnt in jail...how can that be justice?!

    bill, long ago and far away my grammy used to tell me, and I quote..."don't argue with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it." in this case it's just double funny...LOL

    and ps josh, this is a lean mean swimming cat...no tin foil applied :-)

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 11:49 am on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    You're welcome, Rogue. If I ever have an emergency, I hope you're in the area. You might not look the part any more than I do, but we're probably two of the few, not in uniform, who might have a clue what to do. See you next time when we take on the mistaken, ignorant ones.

     
  • My2sence posted at 11:46 am on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    My2sence Posts: 317

    RC already made up her mind, even though she spouts "we will find out w/happened in the investigation" (brick wall) RC "know's" how this works, and we've seen it a hunderd times too, nothing will come about this, and I think deep down, WE all know that, that's why there's 322 post's on this story, in a couple days this thread will be gone, and that's all were gona hear about it...poof gone. It's to the point now where everyone has their boxing gloves on, and actually calling each other out, how does that help exactly? This comment thread went from inlightening perspectives and unique ideas and points of view to ...."what are you gonna do bout it punk" wanna fight? "I know where you live" "I'll be waiting on 2nd ave".........really? actual threats ! thats a very good way for moderator to end this thread now. Just sayin.

     
  • VandalJosh posted at 11:33 am on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    VandalJosh Posts: 106

    Bill, you're not discussing the case. You went from claiming to be suspicious to showing your real views that this is murder, regardless of all the fact or a completed investigation. It seems to me that your entire reason for posting on here was dishonest from the start. If you had stuck with the same arguement of waiting for the facts before making a decision, then you would probably have more people backing you up, but as it is your only defender is an ugly, near dead cat in a tin foil hat (unintentional rhyme).

     
  • Bill69 posted at 10:56 am on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    You sound like another 'tone clone' IchooseNID. And the reason I say this is because you choose to post only to attack people. Are you so dense that you don't understand what this post is supposed to be about? Or are you also involved in attempting to get people so disgusted that they will abandon the posts to the proponents of rogue cops?

    It's about discussing the case where an unarmed civiian was murdered by the police who may have falsely claimed that he was using his vehicle to attempt to hurt them in some way. Do you even remember the case IchooseNID? If you ever post anything again that doesn't deal exclusively with this case, then I will certainly not hesitate to put you on the dummy too. You think the force used was necessary and we think it was excessive - hopefully a JURY will decide it eventually.

    "Wow Bill you have some serious reading comprehension problems. You accuse RC of dishing out insults while praising chouli and Floorist. I think your the one that needs a lesson on independent thinking."

    What does one word of that post have to do with making a case for guilt or innocence of the police officers involved in the killing of Mr. Todd? The 'thread' here is the letter sent by Mr. Evans and his wife - get it? Stick with that or you will be talking to each other. You are NOT going to drag us into a name-calling thing that seeks only to bring an end to this thread. Nice try, but it's not going to work this time. It's pretty common knowledge that when some cannot defend their position or adequately tear down the message of their opponents, they most often resort to ATTACKING THE MESSENGERS! Your last post is clearly evidence of that. You see this in discussions of politics, religion and other subjects where passions run high. Yes, you did manage to cause us at times to reduce ourselves to your level, and that's an easy trap to fall into because it's only human nature to want to defend one's self, but we have recovered nicely and we are back on track and plan to stay there.

    Again, this is your one warning - if you seek to misuse this forum for personal attacks where you treat other posters with insolence and contempt, you will be talking to each other only. I won't be a part of it.

     
  • chouli posted at 9:00 am on Sun, Apr 1, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    all I hear are crickets...

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 11:22 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    IChoseNID: You too deserve some credit my friend for having the foresight and intelligence not to fall in line behind these posers. You notice floorist is fine with posting his letter attacking the police but how dare anybody ask questions or challenge his BS? Then he asks me paragraphs full of questions which I broke down and answered in simplified form, which he completely ignored and refused to address all of his inconsistencies.

    Then the hypocrite chouli, who went on the attack and later demanded civility from everybody but her cohorts, asks me several questions about an unrelated matter which I answered. But chouli refused to answer my questions. Do you see a pattern here?

    Bill69 is just a drone and the biggest hypocrite of all. I proved to him that I was willing to have a discussion with him and there were no "lewd or crude" comments. I reposted my comments tonight from Wednesday thinking he might read them and realize what a jackass he was. What happened? He ignored them again and told chouli and floorist not to talk to me again. The pattern is obvious at this point. Freedom of speech only applies to a certain few.

    floorist tells everybody that he knows me and my brother. Says something about some statue and my mom. Says he did work for me and accuses me of being a retired cop from L.A. with a back injury. You think some guy who is the community's conscience and can write a book about what he didn't see, would have the intestinal fortitude to tell everybody my name. I gave him permission. What would he have to lose, expect to prove himself the fraud that most people can see he is.

    So they'll keep talking to each other and patting themselves on the back about how the police go around murdering everybody. And of course if there is a police shooting that is determined to be justified, it's all a cover-up. So Bill69 wants rubes like himself who can't even comprehend what he reads to determine if a shooting is justified and what the officer's fate is. He basically wants to shortcut the justice system which, even though is far from perfect, is better that the justice these Nazis would mete out. PROOF, hah! It's overrated to those vigilantes. What Constitution...we don't need no stinking Constitution.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 11:13 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Right on chouli - but seriously, I wouldn't even respond to them at all anymore. You know, I have been thinking about your very astute remark about them actually discouraging people from posting by their rude behavior, and I suspect that it is not at all incidental. I believe they fully intended to discourage this line of discussion for reasons that are quite obvious. The fewer people who are talking about it, the more it seems that people don't really care about it, and the less chance that it will spread throughout the community. And the more encouragement investigators will have to issue reports that do not result in charges being brought. The Press does a pretty good job of keeping the heat on, but they too have to be shamed into it at times. They need to do a little more investigative reporting on the investigation reports. I'm just saying that their (the two with the mutual fan club) disgusting behavior is contrived not incidental. They obviously fully intend to attempt to silence anyone who would seek to make an argument that would cast doubt on the righteousness of their kill because either one of them would have acted in the same savage manner (and probably have).

    Don't let them get to you, chouli, they are exactly what you depicted them as, everything they accuse others of. Don't waste anymore of your posts on them, they are honestly not worth it. Talk about the case, or even other cases that are similar. I know it's difficult to keep a conversation going about a case that (and I really like this) the 'fed investigators' are keeping under wraps for as long as they can in hopes that the old proverb: "Out of sight - out of mind" will ring true once again and the guilty will live to kill another day.

    If the Press was really doing it's job, they would be asking the tough questions in this case, like:
    1) Why wasn't spike strips used to disable the vehicle?
    2) Why didn't the police attempt to disable the vehicle by blocking it in?
    3) Why didn't police attempt to shoot out the tires to disable it?
    4) Why did all of them have to fire their weapons into one unarmed man if not to ensure his death?
    5) Since when did 'eluding' warrant the death penalty?
    6) Why did the police remove items from the car besides the body?
    7) At what point was the ISP officer hit by the suspect's vehicle, and where?
    8) What were his exact injuries and were they consistent with being hit by a vehicle?
    9) What treatment did he receive and was it serious enough to kill an unarmed man over?

    They should expect that some will get a copy of that report and will scrutinize it carefully and will kick and scream at any inconsistencies that are found in it. They will kick and scream so loud that the Fed's will hear them. So do a good job boys and girls, and don't get caught with your own pants down.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 10:48 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    floorist: You out there?

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 10:47 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Well MMMMM, looks like we've won another battle with the weak minded. They're gonna talk to themselves now. That way nobody can challenge their view of the world.

    Well, I guess if they have no more questions, our work is done here.

    Thanks for helping expose the impostors!

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 10:36 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    Wow Bill, you have some serious reading comprehension problems. You accuse RC of dishing out the insults, while praising chouli and floorist?

    I think you're the one that needs a class on independent thinking.

     
  • chouli posted at 9:38 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    "You want respect, start showing some." OMG, its a wonder you aren't struck down by lightning.
    neither of you two couldn't possibly be more wrong. everything nasty you say toward us is exactly YOU TWO!
    stop demanding anything from me...or the rest of us. I'm not going back and reading any of your stupid posts, not answering your stupid questions. you and your buddy Ms. mmmm can high five each other all you want.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 9:22 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Thanks, chouli; Yeah, who knows how many folks made a decision not to subject themselves to such personal attacks? We have been quite patient with those people and I understand completely your reluctance to respond to their caveman (and woman) drivel in the future. Enough really is enough!!! He needs a class on 'bullying' and she needs a class on 'independent thinking'. Both just need to be ignored until they sincerely apologize for their rude behavior on here and vow not to engage in anymore of it. I will personally not read nor respond to anything this creep says (creep is defined by Webster as an unpleasant and obnoxious person) until and unless that happens.

    I deeply appreciate your interest in this subject, and that of Evans (if that is who Floorist is), and would welcome anyone's interest if they could refrain from calling people names and making disparaging remarks about their comments, and basically just acting like spoiled children who aren't getting their own way so they start throwing a fit! Actually they act a lot like convicted criminals, i.e. convicts. A reporter once asked a warden to define what he believed a convict to be, and he stated that: "They are children in perpetuity." Emotionally, they are about five years old so there is really no reasoning with them.
    Anyway, have a nice weekend yourself, chouli, and thanks again for your contribution and interest.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 8:54 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Rogue, the mewling of these three, chouli, billy, and floorist, seems rather pathetic when you consider the forms of assault we have had to deal with over the years including various body fluids (and solids) and a few really vile insults. These pitiful ones sound more like whiney kindergartners. The worst of their "bad words" and challenges/dares are just sad. That's why I referred to them as "drama addicts" a few posts back. They have had nothing in their lives that prepares them for an honest discussion on the law with you (or with me), and the sad truth is that they don't even know this. They aren't stupid, just ignorant, but because of their stubborness and need to be "right", they are likely to remain ignorant.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 7:36 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Bill69: Did you miss this post I sent you about 3 or 4 days ago:

    "Bill69: What you say is reasonable and prudent. Any cop who "murders" anybody should be punished in the same manner as anybody else. The cases you mention are not all inclusive though. Those are the ones that have gained notoriety. There are many officers in North Idaho who have been fired for brutality, lying, unprofessional conduct, etc., but because their names aren't tied to media cases, nobody hears about them.
    Having a discussion with someone who demonstrates the capacity to discern the difference between murder and necessary force would be a welcome change. You are one of the few who hasn't pre-judged this case, as far as I can tell.
    Tell me how you would select "ordinary citizens" to review cases like this and what qualifications should they have?"
    *******************************************
    The you started in with your snaky smart a$$ed comments about law enforcement without responding to ONE thing I said above. Read it again. The problem with you and chouli and floorist is that you think you have the market cornered on the truth. YOU make your mind up what the truth is and woe be anybody who would challenge you elitist view of the world. Choose to believe what you want. If you don't want your stupid questions asked, then don't ask. What happened to you 3 know-it-alls is that you thought you had all the answers so you bombard me with questions and trip me up. I answered all of your questions and had a few of my own...which not one of you elitist know-it-alls answered.

    Then you chastise my insults to you AFTER you wrote this:

    "Rogue, I'm not inferring anything here about you - I am flat out stating that you lewd, crude, biased dude who absolutely has to resort to name-calling and disparaging remarks because you have no rational argument to put forth. You are really a sorry excuse for a human being - but I also believe that you are quite typical of those you seek to exonerate regardless of the circumstances. Although I am also certain that there are (a few of) those who wear the badge proudly who would look at you as quite an embarassment, and would be happy to tell you plainly that they do not want or need you to defend their honor in any matter since honor is something you are totally lacking in."
    ***********************************
    You started the attacks. You've been relentless on MMMMMM just because she agreed with me. HOW DARE SHE AGREE WITH SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT THE H E L L HE'S TALKING ABOUT?

    Go back and read my first comment to you and tell me where I was being a rude crude dude?

    Every one of you big tuff know-it-all elitists went on the attack long before I did. You're not only incapable of telling the truth, you can't even recognize it when it's spoon fed to you.

    If you don't want to have a discussion, don't ask questions. You want respect, start showing some. You made your mind up what happened with Mr. Todd and refused to even consider that maybe Evans was being melodramatic or that just maybe there are other things to consider. You made your mind up that no matter what the investigations turn up...it's going to be a cover-up. So live in your alternative universe. I don't care. Don't address me anymore and I won't address you. But if you lie or go on the attack, I'm going to be in your grill, coward!

    And as far as floorist goes...the challenge still stands. If he's not a liar and he's this voice of the people and the conscience of the public he has my expressed permission to tell people my name. He says he knows it. Tell everyone. Or was that just some more of your BS that most people see through. C'mon floorist. Save the world.

    chouli: I answered your questions....waiting for you to answer mine. Everyone except the other 2 stooges can see that you don't have answers, just unsupported allegations that can't be backed up.

    Ya see, cops have a right to free speech just like you cowards. So if you've run out of lies, hyperbole, and innuendo...just shut up, or face the response.

    Everyone's waiting for that name, floorist...or will it be like your silly letter, mostly puff and bravado.

     
  • chouli posted at 6:01 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    most likely many people were chased off from commenting on this story because of the bad behavior exibited by a few posters. it's too bad cuz I like getting everyone's views and opinions and it can be very enlightening. no one wants to be attacked for their views or opinions. well, a few of us must be brutes for punishment tho...LOL

    thx for the comments bill69, I agree with you.

    enjoy your weekend & look forward to more conversation...

     
  • chouli posted at 5:47 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    bill69, ditto everything you said to rogue cop except “Underneath all that bravado you are probably not a bad person” cuz I’ve given up on trying to discuss any topic with him. I just don't care to interact with him anymore.
    I definitely agree with you on “The public must be able to trust the police, and rogue cops are rapidly eroding that trust with every rogue act.” Amen.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 4:13 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Floorist and chouli, I will be happy to discuss this case with you, or anyone else who can control their emotions to the extent that they refrain from degrading others on this forum and their comments. Foorist, I don't even think you should be making personal attacks on RC. We all know who he is and what he is about, we don't have to know all about his personal life. And it's not about "why can't we all just get along" kind of thing - it's about trying to prevent this important discussion from degenerating into personal attacks on each other so that the substance gets lost in the emotional heat of things.

    I simply do not agree with the notion that cops can be somehow justified when shooting an unarmed suspect regardless of his criminal record or lack of it. If a suspect attempts to deliberately do bodily injury to a police officer who is simply performing his or her duties by using their vehicle as a weapon, then the first line of defense should be to DISABLE THAT VEHICLE! And IF shooting or killing the driver is the ONLY WAY to do that then so be it. But if there are other (less lethal) means to accomplish the same thing (the disablement of the vehicle) and the officer(s) chose not to avail themselves of those less lethal means he or they ought to be charged with a very serious crime and be sent away for an EXTRA long time - because they ABUSED THE PUBLIC TRUST.

    The public must be able to trust the police, and rogue cops are rapidly eroding that trust with every rogue act. I don't want to see that. When they are caught dirty I want them given enhanced sentences for the violation of public trust and put away for a long time as an example to all other rogue cops out there who might be tempted to kill other unarmed civilians whether suspects or not. Where were the 'spike strips'? Disabling the vehicle would have avoided that unnecessary use of deadly force and would have resolved that situaltion without the loss of life, and I for one am convinced that the vehicle could have been disabled at some point in the chase or at it's conclusion using less than lethal means.

    If investigations conclude that it could have been and wasn't, then all three officers should have to answer for their actions in a court of law. There are too many of these types of cases occuring today, and it needs to stop. The public is getting sick of all the cover-ups in cases that involve the loss of life. And they are becoming more aware of the fact that civilian oversight (with real teeth) is needed to put an end to it. In the Zehm case, officer Mcintyre was counseled by a city attorney to say that she "did not recall" when asked about any question that she did not have total recall of - even though she did have very clear recall about some elements of the question posed. Recall that would have shed additional light but would not have been favorable to officer Thompson who killed the mentally challenged man, Otto Zehm, and was convicted of using excessive force. This may seem like a small detail but it is very relevant when testifying in a court of law where a police officer has killed a mentally challenged man using excessive force and this is one of many tactics used by legal advisors (at tax-payer expense) to attempt to ensure the success of a "cover-up".

    Yes, cops have a difficult job, but that doesn't entitle them to kill civilians unnecessarily, and then lie to cover the fact that it was not necessary. Officer Thompson was a ROGUE COP trying to make a name for himself among his peers because he wanted to be their next chief of police. He should have been spotted and weeded out long before he had the opportunity to kill a defenseless mentally challenged man whose only crime was 'he just wanted a snicker's bar'. I'm telling you the truth, I cannot even look at a snicker's bar without thinking about that case and how it might have been avoided. Civilian oversight may well have prevented that because rogue cops would be spotted and weeded out, or given the education necessary to change their behavior. At minimum they would at least make their way onto a 'watch list' that may have deterred them even the thought of using their badges to justify taking human life unnecessarily.

     
  • VandalJosh posted at 4:03 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    VandalJosh Posts: 106

    Choach, what exactly do you make $85k/yr doing in cda? And good luck with the combat sports. Are you also a walking advertisement for Tap Out? Here's some info on a real combat sport if you're interested: http://www.goarmy.com/ Don't worry about the pay, I was making close to $82k/yr when I got out. No, just kiddin, cherry. It's not for everyone.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 2:43 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    RC, I don't think I will respond anymore to your lunatic ravings anymore because I honestly believe that you do not have it within you to carry on a civil discourse. I don't know if you are a used to be LE, or a wanna be, or a has been, or a could be, or a would be, or what you are, but I am not going to be drawn into a contest to see who can make the most disgusting, lewd, rude and crude remarks about each other. That's not what I'm personally about, and I don't really think that this is what this forum should reflect. If you are unable to carry on a civil discussion about a topic that is important (or should be) to this entire community, and to a few of us in this forum, then I have no alternative than to put you on "IGNORE" status. I don't like to do that RC, because you do seem to have some rudimentary knowledge of the law that could possibly add to the discussion if presented in a civil manner, but your diatribe is a real turn-off and can add nothing positive to the discussion in the way you present it.

    I mean, the lines are pretty clearly drawn here, and the investigative panels, or committee's will do their work, and if civiians are not involved they will exonerate their comrades in arms again like they do 99 out of 1000 times, and that will be the end of it. I guess you have freedom of speech, and I guess you can exercise it using whatever tone you choose, but not with me. At the point where I allow you to start drawing me into your degrading and disparaging tone, I am done with it. And the same with HMMMM, who is really just a 'wanna-be' RC tone clone.

    And it's not that I just prefer to discuss things with only those who tend to agree with me, it's that I prefer to discuss things with those who can keep a civil tone and speak intelligently about the issue. What does: "I really think the problem is that you got a brain transplant and the brain rejected you" have to do with whether or not this situation involved a 'bad shoot' or not? It makes you look childish and immature, RC, and adds nothing of substance to the discussion. Do you not see that? Underneath all that bravado you are probably not a bad person, so why do you insist on saying things about people and their comments that you know are sure to cause them to dislike you and tune you out? You may have some really intelligent things to say that might cause us all to have second thoughts about this case (and I for one would honestly welcome them), but none of the good points you might make will ever find a real audience (apart from the tone clones) as long as you insist on wrapping them in disgusting comments about others and their comments.

    And I don't think the problem lies in the notion that you cannot see or understand what I am attempting to convey here - I believe it is centered in the fact that YOU DON'T CARE! And it's this very attitude of not caring about others that causes some cops to overreact when they see the opportunity to. Such actions are costly in the sense that states and/or cities have to pay out fairly large sums of money every year in some increasingly difficult economic times. But do the rogue cops care? No - they have the same attitude that you do ROGUE COP, they DON'T CARE! And why should they - it's not their money - it's OURS. When we talk about it costing government, we are talking about it costing US.

    I could go on - but what's the use? People don't ever change for the better unless and until they desire to, and I don't sense that desire in you at all.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 2:22 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Go ahead, floorist, and tell us what you know about our beloved Rogue! Let us all know! And, if you take him up on his offer be sure and give us all the date and time and place. He accepted your challenge and called you a coward. I agree, you are.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 1:15 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Well, ya'll have to excuse me for awhile. I've got a quick heart surgery to perform. Hey, we're all amateur specialists, right? I know I can do a better job than those "professionals".

    floorist: Here's your challenge for the day. On my last surgery, one of the attending physicians clipped a blood vessel and pulled it to the left. Why do you suppose that doctor pulled that vessel to the left after he stopped it from bleeding? AND one of those other doctors moved to his left as he was approaching the operating table with a scalpel in his hand. I'm wondering if he intended to kill this patient and not even give him a chance to come thru the surgery. One of the blood vessels started squirting blood all ove the place, so I dove to the floor. When they stopped the bleeding, I got up and continued with my surgery. it was horrendous and I'm still trying to deal with the horror of that surgery. Oh well, I'll get back to that. Gotta scrub. We'll chat later.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 1:01 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Exactly MMMMMM. They are the Al Sharptons, Jesse Jacksons, and the discredited MSNBC "journalists" of North Idaho. They can accuse, allege, deflect, and obfuscate. But they just can't deliver.

    But I don't want them to stop. We have freedom of speech in this Republic, and I've defended that freedom for more than 30 years while Evans was fearing for his life, writhing on his floor in his Depends. Far be it from me to stop some one from making a fool of themselves.

    Evans is locally known and famous now. That's what he wanted. But he could propel himself into worldwide fame by answering any or all of my challenges.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 12:47 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Don't quit now, floorist. Bring it all out. Let the chips lay where they fall. Quit playing your silly little innuendo games. Name names. Name incidents. You think you're the conscience of the people so bring it on, coward! The truth will set you free.

    I'm calling on you to finally back up your BS, floorist. You haven't answered ONE challenge yet. You've lied. You've tried to make people think you know more than you do. You've "interviewed" the investigators...so lets see your amateur Junior G-man investigation. Post it on-line so we can read it. Take it to the Attorney General if you don't trust the local agencies. Take it to the FBI. Take it to Interpol.

    Again, you say you know who I am. OK, tell everybody who I am. You say you know where I live and you've done work for me or my brother. OK, if you are the conscience of the public, bring a video camera to my door and out me. You can call me all the names you want and make all the accusations you want. I'll tie my hands behind my back and you can interview me on camera. Don't let nothing but fear stop you. Bring chouli so he/she can be a witness. Bring Wild Billy Hickock. If you want, you can bring choach slayer, the UFC champion who makes $85g a year. He's dying to show how tuff he is. All of this can be on video so that chouli won't say I beat you with a nightstick and shot you to death. I won't even blind you with my super-secret flashlight so My2scents won't have to lose a year's salary on a bet.

    And hey Wild Billy....you won't need some civilian panel to review what happens, because NOBODY will get hurt...unless choach slayer frees one of my arms and wants some.

    What do you have to lose? This is the opportunity of a lifetime for curbside lawyers, amateur film makers, and frustrated fiction writers. Or, if all of the above has you soiling yourself...just post my name and address for everybody to see...COWARD! You're a phony, Evans. You know it and most of us know it.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 12:22 pm on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    What's really amazing, Rogue, is to see how fast this group can be swayed from discussing the issues to making assumptions. Too easlily manipulated to ever be worth anything as jurors.

    Their "investigations" would be funny, belong in the funny paper if they wern't coming from adults. Florist has a "keen interest" and "a storm is coming" and we're sitting on the edge of our seats waiting.

    To top it off, chouli, florist and billy are getting paranoid, warning each other to be careful.

    Pitiful!! Drama addicts.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 11:58 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    floorist: If you think you know who I am, you have my permission to post my name. Better yet, you have my permission to come to my home with your silly camera and bring your fan club...both of them. You say you know who I am and where I live, so bring it on COWARD!

    In the meantime I'll say it again...Neither YOU, CHOULI. or WILD-BILL69 ave had the intellectual honesty to answer any of my questions after I answered ALL of yours. THAT is the hallmark of hypocrites and liars, but I expect nothing more from you 3 stooges.

    IChoseNID: I think we can rest our case. The 3 stooges are back in their cage at the zoo now, throwing monkey pooh at the humans.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 11:51 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Oh no Rogue! Say it isn't so. Our fan club had us paired up for awhile. Oh well - - - Billy 69 (interesting) thinks I'm a man anyway.

     
  • the floorist posted at 11:49 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    You and your brother would know, NID. It didn't take much to figure you guys out...lol

    I also have a very keen interest in the fire bombing/arson of the Helmet Outlet building and the players who are involved in that as well.

    I've learned some incredible things over the last couple of weeks...
    ...there's more than meets the eye here, folks...and it involves PF cops...

    I reckon it's time to put this issue to rest. A major chit storm is coming and there's people who have some serious dirt on certain someone's...

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 11:06 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    And choach........you owe me for a new laptop. I spit my coffee out laughing at you......

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 10:53 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    floorist, the more you post, the better. Who, and what you are, just keeps coming out.

    You're a megalomaniac, a con man, and a bully. Thank God the criminal justice system isn't set up to cater to your fantasies and dishonesty.

    RC has repeatedly said he doesn't know if the officer's actions were justified or not. He's postulated theories and possible reasons for the officer's actions to counter all of your sweeping pronouncements and invented "facts". But of course, you had your mind made up before this incident even happened, so any counter to your "conclusions" just incenses you.

    Your self aggrandizing based on your giddiness to have this incident happen in your neighborhood, and your grainy video, isn't impressing anyone except the cop haters and the brain dead.

     
  • the floorist posted at 10:46 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    >>>>>...Not one of you cowards answered one of my questions or responded to one point...<<<<< RC

    So it is you! OH EM GEE!!!

    Whatever, brother...

    You tell your mom I said hi...she's a really cool and funny lady.

    Say, Rogue...do you still have that little statue on your front steps that says, "Go away!" ?

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:29 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Evans, Billy69, and chouli...you rubes get your marching orders right out of the Saul Alinsky playbook. Attack the truth and attack the messenger. Not one of you cowards answered one of my questions or responded to one point. You just keep repeating your zombie-like, tired, old stupid playbook mantra. I guess you've convinced yourselves of whatever it was you were trying to say!

     
  • the floorist posted at 9:20 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    >>>>>...I don't think MMMMM ever had an original thought about anything. Do you two know each other in real life?...<<<<< Bill69


    I may have struck a nerve on this particular, Mr. Bill. I truly believe I know this man, Rogue Cop, and he <i>is a washout ex-L.A. cop with a bad back and an ugly disposition he egregiously intones on society. He does have a girlfriend and they do live in Post Falls, and he does have an ex-L.A. cop brother that lives next door to him. Rogue lived off his mommy and daddy for years, milking his "bad back" spiel to weasel every cent he could from the system. His parents got sick of him and Rogue had to move on to greener pastures. His brother bailed him out of financial trouble a couple of years ago when Rogue had to move away from his parents. I had multiple conversations with this man a few years ago and then most recently. He was clearly a different person with a short temper and a severe lack of tolerance for people in general. He thinks society owes him something...what I don't know. I know his name and where he lives. His girlfriend is pretty much a ding-a-ling too.

    >>>>>>>floorist, be careful, don't want you to be next.
    remember sun tzu lessons...<<<<<<< Miss Chouli

    I will...

    ...and thank you, ma'am...have a great weekend...


     
  • chouli posted at 8:11 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    when & how do fed investigators get involved?
    why wait for the local LE to cover up?

    floorist, be careful, don't want you to be next.
    remember sun tzu lessons...

     
  • the floorist posted at 1:33 am on Sat, Mar 31, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    Another technicality I feel compelled to share...and I have more, believe that...

    The passenger door of the Nissan could not be opened from the inside...
    ...no lie...and there's things I've learned about the "police situation" that are as corrupt as any T.V. show or movie ever made for the hungry masses to enjoy...

    I'm still waiting for the toxicology report AND the dash cam refuting anything I say...

    The truth kills, apparently. Todd knew too much...who's next?

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 8:51 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Great analogy, Rogue, telling the heart surgeon how to do his job!

    Enjoy the brick wall.

    And, I salute you - click heels and all.

     
  • chouli posted at 8:07 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    don't flatter yourself rogue. I'm beginning to think you aren't even in LE, you're just a wanna be. you know, like the loser in high school who ends up being a security guard with a chip on his shoulder? my grandfather who was a real LE officer crapped better than the likes of you. forget civil. go away and lie to someone else.

    and yes, mmmm, we are on juries and we do vote. we also are starting to pay attention to BS from LE when we see it, so you and yer buds need to pay attention. there's a lot of retired LE from CA and other states retiring here...why don't some of the non-sociopath LE folks speak up?

     
  • the floorist posted at 7:29 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    >>>>I asked chouli and Evans questions and all I hear are crickets.<<< RCop

    >>>>Rogue, it's a scary to realize that some of these people might actually end up on juries.<<< MMMMM


    Here's a scary thought...

    ...people like you are considered advocates for unequivocally honest law enforcement...

    Jury panels indeed. A jury is the best thing for this incident.

    You ask me a question, Rogue, I'll answer it. I don't read every word from every post, especially pointless diatribes aimed at selfishly ridiculing respectful individuals expressing their opinion.
    You're the reason I quit this board long ago. You're a jerk to anyone who disagrees with you. I truly believe I've done work for you before, sir. Are you the broke down washout from L.A. with the bad back and the ex-L.A. cop brother who milks the NID?

    You few "shoot first" lovers are still a minority. Just because people aren't willing to bother with arguing this fact on this forum doesn't negate the fact that there's a problem with "the word of the police being opposed by the word of the people". There's undeniable civilian evidence this time. Circumspect isn't the term I'd use for my video. I'll betcha it shows more than the dash cam on the PF cruiser. You should also take into consideration my interview with the investigators. This may actually be considered an excessive force issue for the courts.

    Hey Rogue, why do YOU suppose Justin Todd turned his steering wheel to the left before dying?

    Bill69 makes a valid point. This particular incident requires further scrutiny, only because the word of the people does not coincide with the word of the police.

    Lies were told. Why?

    Hey MMMMMM...your cynicism reveals your emotions. You're a prisoner. 10 more years, sweet pea, and you're home free...ask me how I know...


     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 7:29 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Lewd and crude, huh Billy. I've been called worse by better. You criticize MMMMM for not having an original thought and all you've done for 3 days is echo Evans' moronic, half-baked theories. If you ever had an original thought, it would be beginner's luck! Some day you will find yourself - and wish you hadn't. I really think the problem is that you got a brain transplant and the brain rejected you! I really wished I could see things from your point of view but I can't seem to get my head that far up my a s s. Oh yeah...I'm not inferring either.

    You know Billy, I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and zhit a better argument than the ones you and your cohorts make...is that to crude for ya? Why don't you shock us all and say something intelligent. I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.

    I'm sure you have more examples of your wit and wisdom, Billy. But in the meantime why don't you go to the library and brush up on your ignorance?

     
  • Bill69 posted at 6:44 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Rogue, I'm not inferring anything here about you - I am flat out stating that you lewd, crude, biased dude who absolutely has to resort to name-calling and disparaging remarks because you have no rational argument to put forth. You are really a sorry excuse for a human being - but I also believe that you are quite typical of those you seek to exonerate regardless of the circumstances. Although I am also certain that there are (a few of) those who wear the badge proudly who would look at you as quite an embarassment, and would be happy to tell you plainly that they do not want or need you to defend their honor in any matter since honor is something you are totally lacking in.

    You make it sound like the cops arrive and say to themselves, oh no - here I am on the scene and I only have a few seconds here to decide whether I want to block this man's car in so he can't flee the scene, or use it as a weapon against us, or now that I find my gun in my hand maybe I should just shoot out his tires so that his car will be disabled that way - or maybe we should do both since he is obviously not shooting at us and that way we will accomplish everything we came here to do and no one will get hurt. On the other hand, this dude is a bad actor with a long record of wrong-doing, and I have been iching to kill a creep like this for a long time now, so I'm not going to blow this opportunity. With his record and cops investigating the cops - why not just kill him!

    So they don't even give him a chance to surrender - the P.F. cop just starts blasting away in a very obvious attempt to kill the driver of the car (a man whose record they know well). The stater doesn't know if the P.F. cop has seen a gun in the driver's possession, or if some of those shots are actually coming from the suspect's car, but he is not going to wait around to deternine anything with certainty because now he is in it and he has to protect his fellow in blue at any cost. They probably all sent some lead into the unarmed Todd's body, but five would get you ten that Brad Johnson was the first officer on scene and it was him who fired the first shots.

    I like the quote the floorist made: "Is all we are after here is the truth RC, not the typical cop-talk and justification blather."

    He echos my sentiments exactly. I don't think MMMMM ever had an original thought about anything. Do you two know each other in real life? I can just imagine him following you around like a little lap dog and seriously lapping up every bit of drivel that you puke out.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 5:40 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    chouli: Well, there you have it. You don't know what my questions are? Well here's a secret clue but keep it to yourself, OK? The questions are the ones with "?" after them. Don't even bother!

    MMMMMMMM, it really is true that some people are incapable of admitting when they're wrong and/or are just too obtuse to see the truth. Well, they were fun cat toys while it lasted but I have to go talk to my brick wall now so my whole day won't seem like I've wasted it. Then tomorrow I'm going to walk in on a heart surgery at KCMC and tell the surgeon what he's doing wrong so I know how chouli and Co. feel!

    Cheers, girlfriend!


     
  • chouli posted at 5:07 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    jeez, rogue, don't have a cow.
    I don't even know what your question is...
    can you be a little less wordy and get to the point?

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 5:06 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Rogue, it's a scary to realize that some of these people might actually end up on juries. I thought by now that you would be able to give them a little education about the law, but they seem to be unable to think or reason or even understand English. OJ's jurors didn't have enough toes and fingers to count up the DNA, but I don't know what the problem is for these folks.

    You've explained this and answered every question and every challenge. The response you've received sounds like a 2 year old who just keeps saying "why". Like a broken record. There's no processing going on in their brains.

    The only answer is for you to be selected for a jury with some of these "peers". At least they might come away with some understanding of rules of evidence etc.

    I guess "nitwit" is the same as ignorant here. Stupid is a person who is not capable of learning, but ignorant is a person who is unwilling to learn.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 4:42 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    I asked chouli and Evans questions and all I hear are crickets.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 4:36 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Unsupported, supercilious, conclusions from folks who don't understand the difference between fact and fiction.

     
  • My2sence posted at 3:59 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    My2sence Posts: 317

    I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that Creach was no doubtfully blinded by the deputy's flashlight, those lights are not your typical "home depot" flashlights, they are "surefire" lights and there bright enough to burn the retinas' right out of your eyes, I'm sure RC can attest to that. And they will gladly shine that spot light in your face all night long. So no, Creach most likely could not even see his killer. I know, it's my opinion....a very OBVIOUS opinion, but one none the less.

     
  • ixnay posted at 3:34 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    ixnay Posts: 2

    Nitwit. Wow. That's some uncivil language there! Rogue Cop is keeping everyone in line except himself. Ha.

     
  • the floorist posted at 3:20 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    oops...mispost...

    ...anyway...


    Here...lemme say it again in case you missed it the first time...

    No officers lives were in dire jeopardy when the first shots were fired.

    We witnessed arriving police and the debacle in our cul de sac is reprehensible...
    ...they killed a man with extreme prejudice...

    The best part is it's on civilian video...and we anxiously await that proof the ISP was maliciously injured on our street as was the initial testimony. Geez, Rogue...cops have been known to lie, yanno?

    The truth is all people want, RC. Not the typical cop-talk and justification blather. Judging from the past, this incident will be "investigated" for 6 months or so and end up with the shooters being cleared of any wrong doing...so what's with all the hand-wringing, Rogue?


    And...why on earth do you care what I have to say about it? I'm plotting is all your cop mentality can conjure up...

    ...jerk...

     
  • the floorist posted at 3:03 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    >>>>>...Evans could have told us in about 2 paragraphs what he SAW that night but decided to embellish it with his silly, flowery language...<<<<< RCop


    Whoa...you are one to talk, RC...!


    More ridiculous accusations at Chouli, Bill69 and myself to aggrandize yourself and your career's stallworth and STERLING reputation . I can say with absolute impunity, Rogue, that you haven't killed another human. You speak as though you would've liked to have. Sure, this is supposition, but you express yourself as if you're envious. Had I not had video to support my testimony it too would be suspect to "embellishment and flowery language". Others interpret that video differently than you and a few others who have posted, but the general consensus is it was not a kill or be killed justified shooting. Live with this fact, Rogue. you're a minority on this issue.

    You're inability to keep lewd and inconsiderate comments about other posters to yourself shows your incapacity to stick to the facts and discuss things from an objective point of view. I've read you for years now...you're a bully, dude...this is a fact. Here...lemme say it again in case you missed it the first time

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 2:09 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    chouli: I called you out because YOU decided to lecture everybody else about civility, then proceeded to call those you disagree with, nitwits. I didn't make a demand for civility. You did.

    OK, I'll try to answer your questions.

    "Does it not concern you that there are so many loose ends in the Pastor Creach death?"
    *********************************
    What are the loose ends?

    "If I were in LE I would be ashamed and cringing over that case forever! I understand Creach’s family disputes that Hirzel struck Pastor Creach in an attempt to make him get down on the ground (for some unknown reasoning) and since the Pastor was taking aspirin or some blood thinning drug for medical reasons they thought he would show signs of bruising if he were indeed struck. No bruising found. Sooo…that means Hirzel may be lying about what went on during the confrontation. Why?? Does that not concern you?? It should."
    **************************************
    If Hirzel is lying, I'm definitely concerned. But you said he was beaten and shot...does that concern you that you accept the "facts" that you want to accept (beaten)? YOU TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT.

    "If he lied about that little factoid, then what else might he be lying about? Did he strike the Pastor or not?"
    **********************
    I don't know. YOU SAID HE BEAT HIM. The evidence as we know it indicates there was no evidence of a beating. Is one strike from a baton a beating?

    "Why did he feel the need to strike him?"
    ********************************
    I don't know.

    "By the time Pastor Creach was up close enough to talk to Hirzel he would have known Hirzel was a LE officer. What in the world would make a 74 year old Pastor want to take on an officer?? Doesn’t make sense, does it? Not even a little bit."
    *****************************************
    Then why wouldn't he drop his gun if he knew Hirzel was an officer? NO, it doesn't make sense. So because it doesn't make sense, then the deputy killed a 74 year old man just because he felt like it? Creach called the cops. Then Creach decided to arm himself and go out side and start looking around. If/when Creach saw the UNIFORMED deputy sitting in an unmarked car which was a typical cop type Ford with the motor running, and the police radio broadcasting, and when the deputy got out making his uniform visible, why would Creach not just say...'Hi I'm the property owner' and lay down his gun? if he didn't know Hirzel wasn't a cop why didn't he point his handgun at him and tell him the cops are on their way? If he didn't know Hirzel was a cop, why would he put his handgun away in the small of his back? Why would he not obey the officer and avoid getting "beaten" as you say?

    "The Pastor is dead from a close range gun shot wound and Hirzel can’t be trusted with what actually happened."
    ******************************
    Yes it was a close range gunshot wound. That's what Hirzel said it was. So you know the facts? Share them with us. I assume you have first or second hand knowledge. If you go strictly by what has been reported in the public domain, how do you know it didn't happen the way Hirzel said it happened? What independent knowledge do you have that you can share with us. Do you know Hirzel? Did you know Creach?

    "Then, to add to the disaster…the police department allows Hirzel to go off on vacation and not give his statement until he returns. WTFis that all about?! That screams cover up. everyone involved in that should have been fired. And yet, Hirzel is found not guilty. No explanation of what or why. Shameful."
    ***************************
    That was totally inexcusable and it shows that whomever was in charge screwed up big-time. Should be demoted or terminated. Read into it what you want but that doesn't change the FACTS of what occurred at the scene. Why does that scream cover-up? If they were going to cover it up, they would make sure Hirzel stuck around so they could all get their stories straight. What advantage would there be for letting Hirzel go on vacation? It does't scream anything BUT incompetence.

    What do you mean Hirzel is found not guilty? Was there a trial?

    OK, as you can see your questions raised more questions which means that you are jumping to conclusions, AGAIN. So you answer my questions (and by the way, neither you, or Bill69, or Evans, have answered ONE of my questions that I've posed in this thread). Anybody can take a newspaper article about an event and immediately turn it into a conspiracy.

    SO TELL US WHAT HAPPENED IN THE CREACH SHOOTING AND IN THE TODD SHOOTING. You're making the allegations so back em up with facts, not " WTFis that all about?!" EVIDENCE, choli!

    And before you and your cohorts get carried away and start lying...I haven't said Hirzel was justified, and I haven't said the officers in the Todd shooting were justified. Because I don't know, AND NEITHER DO YOU OR EVANS OR BILL69. You guys have made complete fools of yourselves with your unsupported allegations, suppositions, innuendos, and hyperbole.

    Evans could have told us in about 2 paragraphs what he SAW that night but decided to embellish it with his silly, flowery language, and you and a few others gobbled it up hook, line, and sinker.

    Shameful is right!

     
  • chouli posted at 12:49 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    rogue, you call me out for using the term 'nitwits' and yet you constantly are name calling in every post you make.
    you ask me a question on the Pastor Creach issue and then you totally ignore my questions to you and instead call me "chouli the circus clown". What 's up with that? do you want to discuss the topic or not? I'd love to hear your take on the Pastor Creach killing and what you think actually happened...and why.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 11:30 am on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    “This is still a very complicated topic that my wife and I have struggled with for 18 days now...
    ...it's really horrible...”
    **************************************
    Oh, you poor poor man. You’ve had 18 days to think about what it took the officers about 18 seconds to decide.

    “The shots...a short volley--2-3 shots…”
    *******************************************
    Who fired those shots? You didn’t say.

    “then a thunder of gun fire.”
    ******************************************
    How many shots? You’re a ‘witness’. Your fan club doesn’t know if you mean 10, 20, 30 shots. Is a thunder the same as a cacophony?

    “From our view, my wife and I saw people running around in the street, and THEN gun fire sent us to the floor.”
    *************************************************
    What exactly was your view? Upstairs, downstairs? If your camera was at second floor level and you were downstairs looking out a front window, your view would have been more obstructed by your vehicles than the view from the camera. So other than “aftermath”, what did you really see, Evans?

    “3 seconds later I was looking out the window again watching people running around and securing the live passenger. The first PF cop and the ISP were on the driver's side, so our view of them was obstructed after all the shooting.”
    *******************************************************
    But I thought you saw them planting evidence.

    “Everything happened so fast…”
    ******************************************
    Yeah, no kidding. So how many times have you watched the video to make your determinations BEFORE you accused the officers of murdering Todd because you obviously didn’t see them shooting him, did you?

    “plus my camera angle shows details the dash cam can't.”
    **********************************************************************
    Yeah and the dash cams will show angles your video can’t.

    “Look carefully as the PF cop is just coming into view from behind the pick up truck. The PF cop deliberately ran to his left and quite likely OUT of view of the dash cam as he appears to have had every intention of taking a shooters stance…”
    ***************************************************
    So now you can divine what the officer was “deliberately” trying to do? He had about 3 seconds to decide, ‘OK I’ve gotta kill this guy so I better make sure I’m not on video. I better run to my left.’ Would it have been smart for him to run around behind Todd’s car? Would it have been smart for him to run around the front of Todd’s car? If he did either of those movements, you’d be saying that he intentionally placed himself in danger.

    “even though barricading the street would've been more practical, safer and conforms more to protocol.”
    ************************************************
    Uhhh, what protocol? Reno 911 protocol?

    “After that very brief pause to shoot, he concluded his approach to the Sentra. The first shots hit the driver's door at the seam to the chassis at a very rakish angle. I saw the vehicle evidence, it's like that.”
    ************************************************
    And that proves what? And how many of the first shots hit at a “rakish” angle? You said there were shots fired previously on another street. How do you know where those shots hit the vehicle? You sound like an amateur ballistics expert so tell us what this PROVES?

    “Then the PF cop moves farther left as Todd is backing up. Todd was hit and noticeably injured as the reversing Sentra approached the rear of (our) pick up.”
    **************************************************************
    Pure speculation! Did you see blood? Did you hear him screaming? What does “noticeably injured” mean? He was still operating his vehicle. He was able to put it in drive out of reverse. How do you know he was “hit”?

    “Todd's car, it seems, took an agonizingly long time to stop reversing. He was badly injured from those first shots.”
    ****************************************************
    More of your melodrama and supposition. “Agonizingly long time” means what? He was “badly injured” but he could put the car in drive?

    “The car is in reverse and Todd is obviously attempting to escape through the gap the ISP had just driven through.”
    *****************************************************
    The guy is badly wounded, the car is in reverse and Todd is “obviously attempting to escape through a gap”. No supposition there! How could he escape backing up? He would have backed into one of the parked vehicles at the dead end or the cul-de-sac or onto another yard. How do you know the extent of his injuries, if any, at that point? He may have been dead. Oh wait…but he shifted the car into drive so how do you know what his intentions were.

    “Now look even closer...the ISP crosses over to block this escape route with his body (technically dumb) and positions himself in front and to the passenger side of the Sentra. The bullet holes centered and to the passenger side of the front windshield are the evidential proof of the position of the ISP.”
    *************************************
    “Essential proof”? Of what? Did that officer fire? You didn’t’ say if he fired? PROBABLY BECAUSE YOU WERE LYING ON YOUR FLOOR AND DIDN’T SEE IT. The video doesn’t show him firing. Maybe those holes are from the previous shooting that you refer to on another street.

    “When the PF cop regains his balance the gun fire was deafening.”
    ******************************************************
    How do you know? YOU WERE LAYING ON THE FLOOR. We can’t hear gunfire in the video. Maybe you can. Was the PF cop firing at that point?

    “As Todd is attempting self preservation at this point, he was shot numerous times for his efforts.”
    *********************************************
    What exactly was Todd doing in “self-preservation”? And shot for his efforts…No supposition there! Oh the humanity!

    “I sincerely doubt Todd even saw the PF cop approaching from behind and far to his left as the ISP pulled up along side of the Sentra and parked. Bear in mind, Todd was shot at just minutes prior to this incident.”
    ************************************
    OK, we’ll bear that in mind. We’ll also bear in mind that you know what Todd did and didn’t see. The shots that occurred “just minutes prior”…..where did those rounds strike the vehicle? Were they “rakish” strikes? Were they in the door, windshield, driver’s window, passenger window? Did any of them hit Todd? I’m not asking for “supposition” here. I’m asking what you know.

    “The Sentra lurched forward and then he applied the brakes and died.”
    *******************************************
    So you know that he applied his brakes and then died? You know for a fact that he was dead? Where was he hit?

    “Did anyone notice as Todd's car was moving forward and all those bullets were coming from different directions what Justin Todd actually did? His car veered slightly to the left before he hit the brakes and died.”
    ******************************************
    Gosh no, Evans we didn’t notice. Tell us…from which directions those bullets were coming. How many officers were firing “all those bullets”? His car veered slightly to the left, he hit his brakes and died. OK, what does that indicate? Other than you’re looking to write a script for a movie, what does it mean?

    “Why do you suppose Justin Todd turned his steering wheel to the left at the last second and applied the brakes?”
    ****************************************
    We don’t know but we’re waiting for you to tell us. Was he surrendering?

    “Rogue, I'll take my video footage over my own witnessing AND the word of the police.”
    ****************************************
    So will I. The difference is that I’ll let the video speak for itself. I won’t try to narrate what the people in the video were thinking, seeing, planning, etc. I got news for ya, Junior G-Man…If this goes to a trial, they’ll play your video and call you to the stand to authentic that that was your video, and ask you what you SAW. Your hyperbole, supposition, and all of your other BS won’t even make it into the record. Because it’s not EVIDENCE.

    “The ISP may have been limping around, but he was also seen and recorded jogging around. If the ISP was indeed maliciously struck by Todd's car on St. Estephe, I would be showing the concerned citizens this dash cam video to stifle the masses and shut Troy Evans up once and for all.”
    ***********************************************
    Justice isn’t achieved by “stifling the masses” or shutting you up. Your view of our Republic is obviously skewed. Any worthwhile investigation isn’t released in bits and pieces to the masses to “shut people up”. If the cops had a press conference and showed dash cam footage that disputes your “supposition”, you’d be screaming that they’re trying to silence you and cover up a murder. Fortunately, guys like you and Bill69 AREN’T on a citizen panel because you wouldn’t wait for the investigation to be complete. You’d say, ‘I’ve seen enough. I know what those officers were thinking. They’re guilty of murder.’

    “If the ISP was struck by Todd's car elsewhere (Sunshine Meadows), as one eye witness will tell, the ISP exited his vehicle prior to chasing Todd into our dead end.”
    **************************************
    WAIT! Don’t throw that executioner’s switch just yet. Did you just say that an ISP Officer was struck by the car that Todd was driving???? Did I read that correctly? Just a minor detail that obviously means nothing in your mind, BUT a reasonable man with a police officer’s experience might just believe that if Todd struck a cop with a deadly weapon ONCE, he might just do it again. But of course you know that in your cul-de-sac, minutes later, Todd wasn’t thinking about that at all. He was just a trapped jack-rabbit.


    “Even though there's an "investigation" pending doesn't preclude releasing damning evidence on the perpetrator and yet "The People" are expected to simply take the word of the shooters (and their superiors) on good faith.”
    ***********************************
    NO,"The People" are expected to wait until all the facts are known and the investigation is complete. But I’m sure it doesn’t work that way in the Republic of St. Estephe!

    “You're just a retired jerk cop that will always side with the badge and the insidious nature of generalizing the public as perpetrators and liars.”
    ******************************************
    Uh, wrong again with your suppositions. Not retired, don’t always side with the badge. You’re the one who is generalizing about perpetrators and liars. But we’ve become accustomed to your generalizing. It’s part of your charm.

    “I want the truth from (our) law enforcement, not the watered down scenario that my video shoots holes in.”
    ***************************************
    No you don't. You want to hear what your pre-conceived agenda says. What is the watered down version. Press releases are not evidence. They are not the result of an investigation. They are designed to give a thumb nail sketch of what is believed to have happened PENDING a detailed investigation. Now, as an example…you and other folks have said that Todd didn’t strike an officer. The press release said that an officer was struck by Todd’s vehicle. NOW, 18 days after this happened, you admit that an ISP Officer was struck by the vehicle. Dang, did it take you a few days to find that out, maybe after talking to other people? The only thing that’s been watered down in this whole tragedy is your obvious attempt to label the officers as murderers.

    “Another PF police chase, yesterday, resulted in a wise choice to end the pursuit. Innocent lives would've been placed in danger on the curvy E. Riverview dr., apparently. They don't even know who they were chasing.”
    ****************************
    SO?

    “I'm not picking fights with the policing agencies of the City, County or State of Idaho...or you Rogue, OR your little girlfriend MMMMMM.”
    ****************************************
    Sure you are, and you leave my girlfriend outta this. You have an obvious bias against cops, but more importantly against the truth.

    “I only want the truth. From Wolfinger's mouth to our ears, the first press release didn't hold water after my video footage put their "truth" into question.”
    **************************************
    How so? Did your video show an ISP Officer being struck by Todd's vehicle? If you don't like Wolfinger, don't vote for him.

    “Then the story changed. Was the first press release a lie, or was that the Sheriff's strategy to lie and then make up another excuse to justify the shooting?”
    *******************************************
    You’re story changed as well. What were you trying to hide? Why did you say no officer was struck previously?

    “I don't know Justin Todd, but I was brought up to respect the law and in this instance there are some relevant questions being raised and I'm not alone in this conclusion.”
    **********************************
    “Conclusion”, hmmmm. That usually means an opinion derived after ALL the facts are known. You were brought up to respect the law? Too bad you weren’t brought up to respect the truth.

    “Thank you Bill69...an honor to meet you, sir. Rogue is just a bully with a pulpit and quite often gets all grouchy and calls people petty names and makes ridiculous accusations...huh Rogue? Lol”
    ****************************************
    LOL, indeed! Laughing matter isn’t it, Evans.

     
  • the floorist posted at 9:36 am on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    This is still a very complicated topic that my wife and I have struggled with for 18 days now...
    ...it's really horrible...

    The shots...a short volley--2-3 shots, a brief dramatic pause, then a thunder of gun fire. From our view, my wife and I saw people running around in the street, and THEN gun fire sent us to the floor. 3 seconds later I was looking out the window again watching people running around and securing the live passenger. The first PF cop and the ISP were on the driver's side, so our view of them was obstructed after all the shooting. I immediately ran up stairs and got my binoculars and watched as they dumped his dead body on the asphalt. Everything happened so fast that a civilian video recording turned out to be the best thing a person could have, plus my camera angle shows details the dash cam can't. Not that it matters now, but I have repositioned a couple of camera angles to capture a little more of the street and our neighbors' yards. Anyway...

    Look carefully as the PF cop is just coming into view from behind the pick up truck. The PF cop deliberately ran to his left and quite likely OUT of view of the dash cam as he appears to have had every intention of taking a shooters stance...understandable taken in context...even though barricading the street would've been more practical, safer and conforms more to protocol. After that very brief pause to shoot, he concluded his approach to the Sentra. The first shots hit the driver's door at the seam to the chassis at a very rakish angle. I saw the vehicle evidence, it's like that. Then the PF cop moves farther left as Todd is backing up. Todd was hit and noticeably injured as the reversing Sentra approached the rear of (our) pick up. Todd's car, it seems, took an agonizingly long time to stop reversing. He was badly injured from those first shots.
    Meanwhile the silhouette of the ISP's legs can be seen crossing the headlight beams of the reversing Nissan. The car is in reverse and Todd is obviously attempting to escape through the gap the ISP had just driven through.

    Now look even closer...the ISP crosses over to block this escape route with his body (technically dumb) and positions himself in front and to the passenger side of the Sentra. The bullet holes centered and to the passenger side of the front windshield are the evidential proof of the position of the ISP. When the PF cop regains his balance the gun fire was deafening. As Todd is attempting self preservation at this point, he was shot numerous times for his efforts. I sincerely doubt Todd even saw the PF cop approaching from behind and far to his left as the ISP pulled up along side of the Sentra and parked. Bear in mind, Todd was shot at just minutes prior to this incident.
    The Sentra lurched forward and then he applied the brakes and died. Did anyone notice as Todd's car was moving forward and all those bullets were coming from different directions what Justin Todd actually did? His car veered slightly to the left before he hit the brakes and died.

    Why do you suppose Justin Todd turned his steering wheel to the left at the last second and applied the brakes?

    Rogue, I'll take my video footage over my own witnessing AND the word of the police. The ISP may have been limping around, but he was also seen and recorded jogging around. If the ISP was indeed maliciously struck by Todd's car on St. Estephe, I would be showing the concerned citizens this dash cam video to stifle the masses and shut Troy Evans up once and for all. If the ISP was struck by Todd's car elsewhere (Sunshine Meadows), as one eye witness will tell, the ISP exited his vehicle prior to chasing Todd into our dead end. Even though there's an "investigation" pending doesn't preclude releasing damning evidence on the perpetrator and yet "The People" are expected to simply take the word of the shooters (and their superiors) on good faith. Gosh, put the fox in charge of the hen house, Rogue. It would be like taking YOUR word on faith that it is always unbiased, forthright and truthful. You're just a retired jerk cop that will always side with the badge and the insidious nature of generalizing the public as perpetrators and liars.

    I want the truth from (our) law enforcement, not the watered down scenario that my video shoots holes in. Another PF police chase, yesterday, resulted in a wise choice to end the pursuit. Innocent lives would've been placed in danger on the curvy E. Riverview dr., apparently. They don't even know who they were chasing.

    I'm not picking fights with the policing agencies of the City, County or State of Idaho...or you Rogue, OR your little girlfriend MMMMMM. I only want the truth. From Wolfinger's mouth to our ears, the first press release didn't hold water after my video footage put their "truth" into question. Then the story changed. Was the first press release a lie, or was that the Sheriff's strategy to lie and then make up another excuse to justify the shooting? I don't know Justin Todd, but I was brought up to respect the law and in this instance there are some relevant questions being raised and I'm not alone in this conclusion.

    Thank you Bill69...an honor to meet you, sir. Rogue is just a bully with a pulpit and quite often gets all grouchy and calls people petty names and makes ridiculous accusations...huh Rogue?

    lol

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:59 am on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Bill69, you can infer what you like about my screen name and avatar. You obviously don't have the capacity to understand any of this, so until you can look at facts instead of innuendo and supposition, I'm done with you. And if you think that my comments are losing credibility, it's only you and chouli the circus clown left trying to defend a video which doesn't depict half of what Evans says it does. Take it to the bank "pal".

     
  • chouli posted at 8:49 am on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    Rogue, it looks like you like my word nitwit. ok, I'll debate the Pastor Creach killing a bit more.

    Does it not concern you that there are so many loose ends in the Pastor Creach death? If I were in LE I would be ashamed and cringing over that case forever! I understand Creach’s family disputes that Hirzel struck Pastor Creach in an attempt to make him get down on the ground (for some unknown reasoning) and since the Pastor was taking aspirin or some blood thinning drug for medical reasons they thought he would show signs of bruising if he were indeed struck. No bruising found. Sooo…that means Hirzel may be lying about what went on during the confrontation. Why?? Does that not concern you?? It should.

    If he lied about that little factoid, then what else might he be lying about? Did he strike the Pastor or not? Why did he feel the need to strike him? By the time Pastor Creach was up close enough to talk to Hirzel he would have known Hirzel was a LE officer. What in the world would make a 74 year old Pastor want to take on an officer?? Doesn’t make sense, does it? Not even a little bit.

    The Pastor is dead from a close range gun shot wound and Hirzel can’t be trusted with what actually happened. Then, to add to the disaster…the police department allows Hirzel to go off on vacation and not give his statement until he returns. WTFis that all about?! That screams cover up. everyone involved in that should have been fired. And yet, Hirzel is found not guilty. No explanation of what or why. Shameful.

     
  • fiepie posted at 8:22 am on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    The Sentra was to the left of the picture from around eight seconds of the video until around thirteen seconds...approx. five seconds it was "mired".
    Was the officer...PF...shooting when the ISP pulled up beside the Sentra?
    What direction was the Sentra going when the officer took his stance after the slip?
    What was in the direct front of the Sentra?
    From the slip to the Sentra stopping took how long?

     
  • fiepie posted at 8:15 am on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    Bill69...You say the officer fired when the Sentra was "mired" in the grass but in reverse...
    look at the video and estimate the length of time the Sentra was "mired"...
    Notice the officer to the right side of the video...Post Falls Officer...I believe....is he shooting?
    Now the Sentra backs around and the officer moves to your left....slips on ice?...but has lost his stance.
    It is not easy to shoot any weapon...at night...and line your sights up and we are talking a hand gun.
    Shooting while slipping on ice adds to the difficulty.
    Now the officer takes a stance...what is the Sentra doing?

    Play it again and estimate the time from the slip to the stopping of the Sentra....around three seconds.
    While playing this look where the ISP officer is...did the PF's officer start shooting as he exited his vehicle? Before his slip? After he regained his stance?
    Where was the Sentra? When did it move and in which direction?

    I agree with Rogue that the "eye witnesses" have to rely on what they saw in the video as they declare they were laying down under the window and could not see until the shooting stopped.
    How did they "see" the Sentra "mired" in the grass...for how long? Ten seconds? Two seconds?
    Look at the video and time it yourself....

     
  • Bill69 posted at 6:12 am on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Rogue, why are you grasping at straws here. The 'gunfire', or 'shooting' took only 10-SECONDS !!! They were in fact EYE-WITNESSES to all but 10-seconds of the tradgedy, and yet you grasp on to that as if you really had a point to make. This is a much better point to be made, Rogue:


    "When the Post Falls police officer MADE THE CHOICE to fire his weapon, the Sentra was in reverse and it's front wheels were briefly mired in the grass and rime frost coating the ground. NO OFFICERS' LIVES OR SAFETY WERE IN DIRE JEOPARDY FROM THE SUSPECT OR HIS VEHICLE WHEN THOSE SHOTS WERE FIRED!"

    Is all we are saying, Rogue, is that if this eye-witness/video- testimony is true, and if it stands up in court as being true, your cop friends are going down because they used 'DEADLY FORCE' when it wasn't called for. The vehicle is not being used as a weapon if in fact the front wheels are 'mired in the grass' when the first shots were fired. So why were those shots fired? Could it be that there was a little "MALICE AFORETHOUGHT" going on here, Rogue? I think your handle: "Rogue Cop", as well as your picture, really says it all about YOU and your comments on this matter. Objectivity is really not your forte pal.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:45 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Evans: "Suddenly the roar of gunfire sent us both to the floor below our window. After the shooting had stopped, we witnessed the aftermath of one of the most dramatic and intensely real death scenes we’ve ever seen."
    ****************************
    If you can't read, Bill69 and you insist on being obtuse, there's simply no point in trying to have a discussion with you. Sometimes it's just better to walk away from the weak minded!

    chouli: Again you look like a nitwit. The deputy said he struck Creach with his nightstick but the family says there were no marks. Now again you're picking and choosing what you want to believe. If the deputy "beat" him as you are alleging, there be evidence of it. So you "want" to believe he was "beaten", even though there were no injuries. The Creach supporters are accusing the deputy of lying about striking Creach with his nightstick. So make up your mind, nitwit... Did he beat him or not? If you believe he was beaten, then you believe the deputy, right?

    The more you people want to argue about the law, the sillier you look. But don't let me stop you.

    Bill69, you started out wanting to take a dispassionate look at the incident...then you became a loon like the rest of the loons. But go ahead on!

     
  • chouli posted at 8:00 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    rogue, Pastor Creach was beaten with Hirzel's nightstick prior to being shot in the chest at close range. why bicker with me on that point?
    Is nitwit really so offensive? you've called me worse practically every comment.
    lighten up.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 7:41 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Rogue - you say of me that: "Your agenda is myopic" and "your comments are asinine." Such adjectives suggest that your comments are becoming more personal because they are less rational. Stick to the substance, Rogue. You claim that the "eye witnesses" (the Evans) didn't see anything at all because they were lying on the floor the whole time the action was unfolding. That's not what they say, Rogue. They say: "Upon review of our video recording IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR WITNESS ACCOUNTS..." Use your head, Rogue, they were not just filming the action, they were also EYE WITNESSES TO IT!!!

    Why can't you understand that there was NO AGGRESSION HERE! The vehicle was not being used as a weapon. I have quite clearly stated WHY I believe the witnesses instead of the cops, but you have not given any rational reasoning for believing the cops over the witnesses. I never once stated that a vehicle could not be used as a deadly weapon, Rogue, I know they can. I merely stated that in this case, I do not believe it was. Hopefully it will all be decided in a court of law with the Justice Dept. acting on behalf of the murder victim.

    You asked what I thought a civilian panel should look like? That's a very good question, Rogue. Use the same procedure that is used to select a jury. You know what a jury is - right? A jury is made up of a panel of "ORDINARY PEOPLE", Rogue, just like I have been talking about. And everyday in this country they are utilized to decide the fate of folk's charged with crimes (including cops). Who do you think convicted officer Thompson when he murdered Otto Zehm? It was just a panel of ordinary civilians called a JURY, Rogue.

    And your Ellington analogy was not a fair analogy, Rogue. Ellinton killed a woman (Todd killed NO ONE) nor has it been proven that he attempted to. And if Evans did make a statement that could be characterized as 'supposition', does that make all his statements suspect? Or would it be more rational to take each statement on it's own merits? The fact is that you do not know whether the ISP vehicle was safe to continue the pursuit or not. The fact that he did continue the pursuit is not evidence that the vehicle was safe to do that.

    And you do not know whether the girlfriend stayed in the car throughout the chase of her own will or not - do you? Unless it is proven that Todd forced her to stay in the car, then it was definitely the cops who had the most disregard for her safety (if not her life). They knew the vehicle was "occupied two times", and they had no idea whether she was a willing accomplice or an innocent passenger, and it apparently didn't matter to them at all as one of the Post Falls police officers actually fired rounds through the passenger side window.

    Check it out, Rogue, you appear to be VERY SELECTIVE with regard to the comments that people make in this venue. Why not take the comments one-by-one and DEAL with them? Don't take one comment and mischaracterize it, and then lump all the comments that person made according to the one you intentionally distorted. I think people are beginning to see through that, Rogue. Your obvious bias is getting the better of your common sense, pal.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 6:30 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    OK Bill69, I'll try this one more time...EVANS DIDN'T SEE WHAT HAPPENED BECAUSE HE WAS LAYING ON THE FLOOR TILL THE SHOOTING STOPPED...My god man, how can you call that eyewitness testimony?

    But I'll humor your question: "if it turns out (in this case) that the vehicle could have been disabled by less than lethal means so that it would have prevented escape and voided police concern about personal safety, and the officers involved intentionally or unintentionally chose NOT to use the less than lethal means available to them - would you agree that they should be charged with murder?"
    **********************************************
    NO! You don't charge someone...ANYONE... with murder based on such ambiguity as "intentionally or unintentionally". Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. IF, there is evidence that the officers shot and killed Todd as he was surrendering or attempting to surrender...then maybe 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter might apply. Your question alone assumes all kinds of issues that haven't been proved, even though you have CHOSEN to believe what Evans says. Point out a clear view in that video where there are no obstructions that CLEARLY indicate there were no officers in the path of that vehicle. If you want to frame your question such as: 'If it turns out that the officer(s) intentionally killed Todd when there was no threat to them would you agree that they should be charged with murder?' Then Yes, I would agree that 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter would apply. But all your other comments about disabling the vehicle, less than lethal force, and police concerns, etc. are just noise and they might mean something to someone with an agenda but have no basis in law. You don't have to wait till a suspect's car hits an officer first, in order to justify a shooting.

    You can argue all you want about what you would like to happen or what you think the law should be...but none of your questions or scenarios are based on uncontroverted FACTS.

    Would you agree that if one of the police car cams show that there was an officer in the path of the vehicle, that the shooting was justified? BTW, the officers were eyewitnesses. Evans wasn't.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 5:52 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Hey Rogue; IF you would have read more carefully the last part of my first comment you would have understood how (in my humble opinion) I define 'cops who murder'. I stated that: "...any cop who resolves a situation by taking human life unnecessarily is a really bad cop and should be charged with murder IF FOUND TO HAVE USED EXCESSIVE FORCE RESULTING IN THE LOSS OF LIFE". Between my first and second comment, I re-read the Evans article and became convinced (beyond a reasonable doubt) that Evans was telling the truth when he stated that

    "officer's life and safety were never in dire jeapordy before the first volley of shots fired by the Post Falls police officer."

    Like Hmmm, Rogue, you never attempt to deal with "the EXCESSIVE FORCE factor". Let me ask you this, Rogue, if it turns out (in this case) that the vehicle could have been disabled by less than lethal means so that it would have prevented escape and voided police concern about personal safety, and the officers involved intentionally or unintentionally chose NOT to use the less than lethal means available to them - would you agree that they should be charged with murder? If not - why not? It's not a 'tangent' that caused me to refer to them as murderers, it was my re-reading of the Evan's article. They have no reason to lie - whereas the cops have EVERY REASON TO LIE! Do you see that, Rogue?

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 5:42 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    NITWITS, chouli? What happened to civility?

    chouli: "don't forget that Todd's girlfriend was a passenger in the car. how much regard for her safety was given by the 3 officers/adrenaline junkies???
    ******************************************************
    How much regard did her boyfriend have for her safety? Yeah Todd, that paragon of chivalry! The officers probably saved her life. Why doesn't your HERO, Evans tell us about the girl. Didn't he see the whole thing? I'm sure he interviewed her. After all he knows about the previous shooting at the vehicle by the cops. He knows that the ISP vehicle was unsafe to continue the pursuit and he says NONE of that was supposition. He should be able to tell us EXACTLY what the girlfriend's actions were frame by frame. Did he not have a clear view of the entire incident? Maybe that will be in Chapter 2 or possible in his next book.

    Rubes!

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 5:21 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    chouli: "I guess the beating on an elderly Pastor (Creach) in his own driveway had nothing to do with excessive force."
    *********************************
    So was he beaten or shot? Make up your mind.

    Bill69: Your "two very observant unbiased bystanders" were lying on the floor until all of the relevant action stopped and then saw the same video that the rest of us saw. They aren't factually or legally eyewitnesses to anything but what occurred after the shooting...BUT they fit your myopic agenda so you choose to believe what you want.

    Your "understanding" of excessive force is pedestrian at best. You don't have to meet force with like force. Your asinine comment that Todd didn't shoot at them so they had no right to shoot him demonstrates you don't know what your talking about. A police officer can use that force necessary to overcome aggression. If you don't think a vehicle can be a deadly weapon just look at the Ellington/Larsen case. Ellington is serving 8 years for killing a woman with a vehicle WHEN SOMEONE WAS SHOOTING AT HIM WITH A .44 MAGNUM. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

    And you want civilians deciding the fate of people involved in officer involved shooting deaths?

     
  • chouli posted at 5:10 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    choach, don't let the nitwits get to you. they like it when they do. don't give them that leverage. just keep on keepin' on. peace.

     
  • chouli posted at 5:07 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    Bill69, don't forget that Todd's girlfriend was a passenger in the car. how much regard for her safety was given by the 3 officers/adrenaline junkies???

     
  • choach slayer posted at 4:52 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    choach slayer Posts: 5

    don't talk smack about someone you don't know diddle about if your not going to be a man that backs it up MR ' IchoseNorthIdahoD**k' because some of us actually buy wolf tickets silly girl. Birds of a feather stick together! I'm sure you would allow others to talk bad to you, friends or family. It's why your heart pumps kool-aid. You attacked me personally & now stay hidden behind your computer? At least your smart because I've not seen justin in 15 yrs or partake in that lifestyle but 30 seconds with me and You would learn exactly what a true friend is. Ya would of became my pocket pu**y bobbing your head and clucking like the chicken you clearly are. For fear of being told on by all you 'real men' and picking up some odd ball charge I will stay off this site now. However I will be on the corner of 2nd & cda ave till about 11pm tonight. Who knows? Maybe your little berrys will drop by then

     
  • Bill69 posted at 4:36 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Hey Hmmm; First of all, I may be mistaken but I do not believe that this case has gone to trial yet, so it has actually not been PROVEN yet that the 'vehicle was the weapon'. I don't know how to make that any simpler Hmmm. The witness Troy Evans and his wife both state that the vehicle was not being used as a weapon and have video to prove it. I realize the ISP officer said that he was injured at first (and then he found out about the video), so now he is claiming that he 'believed' he was in danger somehow of the vehicle injuring him. Surprisingly (or maybe not so surprisingly) you have still not addressed the issue of excessive force. If their intent was to kill him to stop him from fleeing the scene, or to disable the vehicle (you know that horrible deadly weapon) to keep him from hurting them with it, and it turns out that they could have done that (or at least attempted to do that before killing him), then the force they chose to use would by definition be EXESSIVE! I think that you can see that, can't you?

    And as far the 'credibility factor' goes, I would not hesitate to believe two very observant unbiased bystanders whose testimony corresponds to their video tapping of the event, and who were not looking to witness anything that night, rather than the three cops whose jobs and future depend on their lying well enough to convince an investigative panel, or commision, (and hopefully a jury) that the video didn't really capture what it did capture, and the witnesses just hate all cops and that they are therefore not to be believed.

    If the witnesses had intended to lie about what they saw, I seriously doubt that they would have video taped it. You can surely understand that can't you Hmmm? Or if they wanted to lie they could have simply said, this is what we saw but we have no video to prove it. They didn't do either because they were not lying and they produced the video to support their testimony. Those cops were 'trigger happy' and they killed a man without cause or justification. They could have BLOCKED HIS CAR SO HE COULDN'T LEAVE OR HURT THEM WITH IT, or they COULD HAVE SHOT OUT THE TIRES AND ACCOMPLISHED THE SAME THING - BUT THEY CHOSE TO DO NEITHER !!! When you fire 3 or 4 bullets into the driver's side door of a vehicle (while the unarmed driver is still in the driver's seat) you are intending to KILL THAT DRIVER! And it was simply not necessary Hmmm.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 1:54 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    We all can see where the one officer slips on the icy street. Could it be that the ISP officer slips as well in front of the suspects car? Who knows? What? Don't know, can't see?

    The fog of war, that dynamic combat milieux of adrenaline and decisions where the dominoes drop faster than they can be counted or stopped. And then we have the after-examination of those events, the debriefing. Now we have video to add to this reexamination.

    Wait and see. I for one am not the least worried that myself, or anyone I know, will be executed by trigger happy cops. As for others, well I hope none of you are stupid enough to place your health in the same set of idiotic circumstances as this gentleman. There were way too many uncontrolled and way too many confounding variables in play. It was rash, reckless and had little chance of having any positive outcome. And it had the worst outcome. Dumb before it started, more stupid as it progressed and tragic in its final outcome. The prospect of death was always there, wasn't it?

     
  • chouli posted at 1:28 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    i never said Pastor Creach was beaten to death. I proposed that thugbot hirzel used excessive force on the 74 year old Pastor.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 11:49 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    That was for my2sense

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 11:48 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Yes, God help me, it's better than flowers.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 11:47 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Bill69, the vehicle was the weapon. Remember, "it isn't guns that kill people, people do . . ." or something like that. Same with vehicles. The officer doesn't have to be shot before it's legal for him to defend himself, and he doesn't have to actually be struck by a vehicle before he can lawfully defend himself. These officers were defending themselves and any surrounding citizens from the MAN operating the deadly weapon. Officers don't shoot the gun out of your hand. That's only in the movies. They shoot the MAN holding the gun. Or the MAN driving the weapon. Do you understand this? I don't know how to make it any simpler.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 10:20 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Yeah NID, facts are stubborn things and they usually outlive intentional distortions.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 9:24 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    Jeeeez Rogue.... Factual information so overrated.....

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:05 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    chouli, Creach wasn't beaten to death. He was shot.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:53 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    chouli: "just what would make this encounter turn deadly??
    *********************************************************************
    I already told you!

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:50 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Just look at floorist/Evans' last comment. This is the guy you WANT to believe?

     
  • chouli posted at 8:36 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    I don't feel foolish at all rogue. actually I'm a bit honored you named the kool-aid after me.

    Per rogue: "Pastor Creach got himself killed by being stupid. You don't approach a cop at night time ARMED and refuse to drop your weapon. If he would have complied, he would be alive today." WOW, I guess the beating on an elderly Pastor (Creach) in his own driveway had nothing to do with excessive force by Hirzel... since Hirzel was allowed to go on vacation before ever giving his testimony on what happened that night, he had lots of time to come up with a better version of the events. unbelievable!! just what would make this encounter turn deadly??

    the SR had many articles on this case, do a search on line or check out:
    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/20/creach-family-files-civil-rights-lawsuit/
    http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2011/may/01/safety-demands-marked-squad-cars/

     
  • My2sence posted at 8:30 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    My2sence Posts: 317

    "MMMMMM".....Is that the sound you make while your nose is lodged up Rogue's @$$

     
  • the floorist posted at 2:44 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    MMMMMM & Rogue...sittin' in a tree...K.I.S.S.I.N.G...


    Gawd...@@...no wonder people hate this board. It's being controlled by Mr. & Mrs. Smith...lol

    Hey RC...thanks brother...you and MMMMMM are bored, I know.. .
    ...tell ya' what...I'll haggle with yooz later about other stuff... ::::wink::::


    I say lay off, everyone. It's bad all the way around...yanno?

    It will be interesting what "justice" has to say...


    I shot...

    ...a six under at Cherry Hill today...

    rugg

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 12:27 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Bill69, looks like I spoke too soon. You post a reasonable adult-like comment. Then you go off on a tangent calling the cops murderers. Drinking the chouli kool-aid will only make you feel foolish later.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 11:53 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    Lol @"choach slayer"....

    Yeah...pretty easy to figure out why you and Justin were pals...... Birds of a feather and all....

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 11:12 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Bill69: What you say is reasonable and prudent. Any cop who "murders" anybody should be punished in the same manner as anybody else. The cases you mention are not all inclusive though. Those are the ones that have gained notoriety. There are many officers in North Idaho who have been fired for brutality, lying, unprofessional conduct, etc., but because their names aren't tied to media cases, nobody hears about them.

    Having a discussion with someone who demonstrates the capacity to discern the difference between murder and necessary force would be a welcome change. You are one of the few who hasn't pre-judged this case, as far as I can tell.

    Tell me how you would select "ordinary citizens" to review cases like this and what qualifications should they have?

    chouli: Pastor Creach got himself killed by being stupid. You don't approach a cop at night time ARMED and refuse to drop your weapon. If he would have complied, he would be alive today. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 10:53 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Thanks for the welcome, chouli. I don't fear the wrath of the LE folks, I just calls em like I sees em, and I let the chips fall where they may. I'll tell you this, I do not know Troy Evans but I have never read a more objective, reporting of facts from any witness to any crime scene, and Mr. Evans has convinced me that that is exactly what that scene was! These guys aren't cops, they're cowboys. Where was Mr. Todd's gun? He must have been shooting at them for them to be shooting at him. Police don't shoot at citizens unless citizens are shooting at them, right? Oh, he didn't have a gun. Now that leaves police with only one possible way out of this mess, and that is to try and prove that Mr. Todd actually used his vehicle to attempt to injure one of them. I don't think it is claimed that he actually did injure one of them, so it must be assumed that he 'attempted' to.

    There is no doubt that these officers were attempting to kill Mr. Todd. I sincerely believe Mr. Evans when he states that: "No officers' lives or safety were in dire jeopardy from the suspect or his vehicle when those first shots were fired." Now if I'm Mr. Todd and I have just been shot by the police (or anyone else), and I am unarmed, I am going to use whatever once of strength I have left to get the heck out of their direct line of fire. ANYONE WOULD! I totally agree with Mr. Evans when he states that that situation could have just as easily been handled without a shot being fired!

    What would have happened if they would have let him leave without shooting him? He would have drove off and probably would have went home where the police could have gone later and arrested him without incidence. Being wanted by the police, and running away from them when they attempt to apprehend you does NOT JUSTIFY THE MURDER OF AN UNARMED MAN!!! Instead of putting 3 or 4 bullets into the driver's side door in a blatant attempt to kill the suspect, why not just shoot out the tires? Since he could easily have been stopped from leaving the scene without having to shoot him, the officers involved used EXCESSIVE FORCE!

    If they were acting in accord with accepted police procedures, then those procedures need to be immediately changed to forbid the killing of any unarmed citizen under any circustances. Why would police ever have a policy or procedure that entitled them to shoot and kill unarmed civilians? Yes a vehicle can be used as a 'weapon', but I truly believe the citizen witness and his wife when they say that is not what happened in this case (with video support). We don't work for them, they work for us, so maybe we should begin to take this seriously enough to actively protest their murderous actions in the hope of at least drawing attention to it if not putting a stop to it while there are still any of us left.

     
  • choach slayer posted at 10:04 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    choach slayer Posts: 5

    "IchoseNID' My lost child, I am actually a very productive member of society. I am not a kid and far from a drug addict. I'm 100% athlete, married to a wonderful women with two beautiful children, working my 6th year at my 85,000/year job with a HUGE passion for combat sports. If you would like, perhaps we could get together on our days off for a "friendly" & " legal" boxing match or whatever poison you prefer so you can have the opportunity to put me down AND then talk your disrespect of NOW me as well as my dead friend. I bet I can make you wish you were justin! don't be scared cupcake, I got all the protective gear & everything.I even got my cup I had as a child still you can borrow for your little bitty berrys. All I need is a target with a mutual agreement .Respect is always a painful lesson but you'll grow from it and become a better person and once again I'll be productive member of society making my city a better place one choach at a time. I live in fernan village by the way downtown cda.

     
  • chouli posted at 9:23 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    welcome bill69. now prepare for the wrath of the LE folks who can't take any questioning of their
    authority. They're kindof a tag team thing...LOL
    don't forget about Pastor Creach who was shot and killed on his own property.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 9:03 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    The question is not whether Todd was a good guy or a bad guy, the question has to do with whether the police acted in a lawful, ethical, professional and reasonable way that demonstrated that they did everything within their power to bring resolution to this particular situation following correct procedures and using the least amount of force necessary? And unfortunately the answer to that will not be determined by a panel of ordinary citizens should be a part of this investigation from the onset. Instead it will likely be determined by the police themseves who are not exactly unbiased bystanders.

    One need not be 'invested in hatred for law enforcement' to question whether or not this situation involved the use of "excessive force". And this is not a stand alone case. In light of what has already happened in the cases of Otto Zehm, Benites Sichiro, Trent Yohe, Jerome Alford, Nic Clason, Jeffrey Flinn and others, it is not unreasonable to suspect that if excessive force was used there will likely be a "cover up", so citizens need to keep a very close eye on this and make sure that does not succeed in this case. I can't speak for others, but I do NOT hate cops - but that fact doesn't blind me to the fact that there are some really bad ones out there. Not many, but some. And in my humble opinion any cop who resolves a situation by taking human life unnecessarily is a really bad cop and should be charged with murder if found to have used excessive force that resulted in the loss of life.

     
  • chouli posted at 8:31 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    you two sure have some kinda bug up your behind over chouli's opinions. LOL
    you keep chronicling there, rogue...must be the cop in you to keep track of every word uttered by us infidels...or maybe it's just me. either way, don't care.
    don't you have anything better to do than track me? LOL

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 11:08 am on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    MMMMMMM, The problem is that there are people invested in their hatred for law enforcement. Cops bring some of that on themselves with their attitude sometimes. But the weak-minded, like chouli and Co. can't separate out the difference. You can tell by reading all these comments that early on, after reading Evans' mindless rant, they chose to believe what they wanted no matter what the facts are.

    chouli goes on the attack which I chronicled a few posts back, then whines about people being uncivil. Then, incredibility chouli say, "rogue, you make assumptions about Todd whom you didn't even know. you make assumptions about Todd's friends." ASSUMPTIONS??? You're kidding, right? If hypocrisy was a valuable commodity, chouli and Evans would be wealthy.

    So MMMMMMM,the main problem = ignorance, and the refusal to see anything that doesn't fit into their pre-conceived agenda.

    chouli: The reason there are "only (my) little LE buds left commenting", is because you and your ilk have been defeated in the arena of truth and common sense! Your exit would have been more strategic if it occurred several days ago and you may not have looked as foolish as you do now!

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 9:58 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Rogue, chouli skipped out and ran over to the abortion discussion. She doesn't understand that the primary purpose of police work is protection. This same desire to protect can be applied to those who are unborn also.

    Same with jails. The main purpose of a jail is to protect society. There is a lot of confusion on this issue. Most people think jails are for punishment, judges sometimes included, but actually their main function is to take people who might harm other citizens off the streets.

    What most folks who are anti cop here don't realize that the officers were protecting themselves and citizens generally from a man who was using his vehicle as a deadly weapon.

    Do you think I have adequately explained this in down-to-earth and simple language? Was it easy to understand? If so, what is the main problem?

     
  • chouli posted at 9:37 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    rogue, you make assumptions about Todd whom you didn't even know. you make assumptions about Todd's friends. you make assumptions about me. you think you just know it all. you brag that you don't need to be couteous to people. guess what...I don't care what you think. you and your thugbot buds are hateful people. the more I get to hear comments from the likes of you the more I worry about the state of LE. notice how it's only your little LE buds left commenting...have fun.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 9:06 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    "choach slayer".

    You only hope someone comes and shows us "pukes" disrespect like was shown your buddy?

    Too funny. Justin Todd was worthy of SO much respect.....

    I only hope Justin Todd has some friends that will learn from his mistakes, get clean and become productive members of society. Clearly, that won't likely be you....

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 6:18 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    I really like the comment by De Niles about Todd's so-called friends. They watch this guy's life spin out of control and then when it reaches a point of no return, it was the fault of the police or the system.

    choach slayer: What did you do to try to help your "good friend"?

    I know that sometimes there is nothing family or friends can do if someone refuses help and doesn't care. It appears that's the case here. He didn't care about the danger in which he placed his female passenger. He didn't care if he endangered lives during and at the end of this pursuit. He simply didn't care!

    Maybe all the proponents for legalizing narcotics out there will give this a second thought.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 6:00 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Where was the "reaching out" chouli?

    If you took some of the technical comments I made and said, "Yeah but....", or "What about this...", that might indicate that you want to have a discussion. But your entire agenda here is to attack cops and you proved you have no knowledge, experience, or background upon which to base your attacks.

    You've sided with the whack jobs and there's no "reaching out" there. You're of the mistaken belief that because I've got 30 years of law enforcement experience at various levels of government that I have to be courteous to people who are bomb throwers. Cops on duty have to be courteous. I'm not and I don't.

     
  • chouli posted at 5:24 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    whatever rogue
    there's no reaching out to you anyway.
    we can agree to disagree.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 4:02 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    chouli: "No one wants to comment on here because of the two of you."
    *******************************************
    There are 226 comments here chouli. Is there somebody stopping you from commenting? Do I have to go back and start counting who made how many comments? Evans wrote his tome of a letter and then continued to comment here attacking anybody that would dare challenge his asinine conclusions.

    You have shown yourself to be a hypocrite, chastising people for their incivility. You have either refused to read, or just don't understand the process of an investigation that I and others tried to explain. Evans has predetermined that the police planted evidence, they have or will erase tapes and the investigation is tainted before it was ever started because HE SAID SO...no agenda there huh? You have accused these officers of murder and so has yarply.

    You criticize "you two" for name calling? Go back and see all the names that were called by you and your minions.

    You and your cohorts don't have a clue about the process of investigating a homicide. You don't have a clue about what is entailed in determining the justification for deadly force. You don't have a clue about evidence or evidence collection and preservation. You don't have a clue about rules of engagement, self defense, lag time, shooting discipline, pursuit policies, or laws of arrest. But more importantly you don't have a clue about what happened THAT NIGHT, yet you have PRE-JUDGED this incident as a murder. So why even do an investigation?

    Fortunately, in this country there is a rule of law and the fate of anybody (police or civilian) isn't in the hands of ignorant, self-absorbed, attention seekers like Evans and his posse of cop-haters. BTW, if you or your band of chest-beating anarchists think that calling me names is going to slow me down from telling it the way it is in plain language that even morons can understand, you're delusional. So bring it on with your bad selves... the more you and the Evans posse writes, the stupider you look!

     
  • DeNiles posted at 3:47 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    What is most revealing in these threads are the few posters who claim to have been friends with the victim. Yes, it is hard to lose an acquaintance or someone you know as a friend, especially in this manner. But how hard did they try to get this young man (their so-called friend) to go straight, to get clean and end such a destructive lifestyle? How many of them are in the same boat and expect that society owes them their crimes and should pay for their rehabilitation, time after time? How can any complicit person see their friend die and not accept some of the blame for his death? Will this tragedy cause them to try better with any other strung-out friends or change their own ways? Will they call the authorities today and turn in anyone they know is selling these horrific street drugs? Will they try to make things better or just complain because their friend rolled the dice once too often?

    All of these druggies know what they do and the perils of their lives. They have a saying: They live their life's like they are tapping on a glass window pane with a hammer. Just one tap too hard and it is broken forever.

     
  • cougar posted at 2:48 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    cougar Posts: 230

    RC done no more than bring up your quotes Chouli. So who is inflammatory?

    Here's an idea.
    Let's all of us wait until the investigation is complete, then vent our thoughts once again.

    I think about everything that can be said has been said on both sides. Agreed?
    No? Then carry on.................

     
  • chouli posted at 2:30 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    Rogue mmm, that’s exactly what I’m talking about.
    No one wants to comment on here because of the two of you. Neither of you wants to have a conversation, you just want to be bullies and mock the entire conversation. You offer nothing except to be inflammatory.


     
  • MMMMMM posted at 2:17 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Here kitty kitty, come on back chouli. Rogue's got more of your own words for you to eat.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 1:27 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Gee, does anybody think that Evans/floorist might have an agenda? Just read all of his drivel and you can see a common thread.

    What's the matter Evans, did your wife run off with a cop? Your credibility and that of your silly video is non-existent based on your assumptions and accusations.

    Get a life!

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 1:21 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    So chouli NOW wants to be more civil, saying: "...how about instead of mocking each others comments we add to the conversation without all the ridicule...it's easy to get carried away, but be careful with your words..."
    ***********************************
    But here's some examples of chouli's civility just on this topic:

    "I don’t believe any officer was in fear of their lives by Todd’s actions. I think they took the opportunity to shoot it out. This cannot be tolerated. How brutal the officer’s actions were! They need to stop playing the first person shooter video games and come back to real life."

    "deniles, he's limping from the grassy knoll. LOL
    is that the best evidence you have to support the brutality of the officers? none of them seem to be in fear of their life...except the victim."

    "...so if an officer puts himself in the path of a vehicle backing up or sliding to a stop... is that still putting him in quote 'peril' and justification of lethal force being used?"

    "Todd wasn't just 'roughed up', he was point blank gunned down by three officers while he was trapped in his vehicle."

    "why the shoot first, ask questions later?
    why is this tolerated?
    i'd rather the criminal get away than to have this kind of action be condoned.
    this was not necessary and I don't care about the limping officer. that really had nothing to do with the gunfire going on."

    "If the frustration, fear and danger of being in law enforcement is so horrible that it can be used as an excuse for murder then our society is in a whole lot of trouble."

    "...if only the testosterone could be removed from you guys so you could focus more and fight less..."

    "Advice – cut out the steroids, go to charm school."

    "Now I know that you’re a pig in both senses of the word."

    "I dont intend to give up my liberties to you or your thugbot pals."

    "bunch of thug-bots"
    *************************************

    Well there you have it, the compassionate chouli in his/her own words. Yeah, we know chouli...somebody else started it.


     
  • chouli posted at 12:42 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    good point, fiepie. I didn't intend to just single you out, you were just the last comment I read. this long string has way too many snarky comments from all of us. as far as remembering the officers families, that's a good point to remember also. I do have a 'but' to state tho. at least the officer's families still have their loved one with them and for the most part have the respect of the community. there has been an awful lot of disparaging comments on the deceased. I didn't know him but I've winced many times at the callous remarks put in print.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 12:41 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    You're partially right, florist, I didn't pay attention to the warning about "never s_______ a pig 'cause they will squeal on you every time." But that isn't how I got my treasured nick-names, and now chouli has added another, "thug-bolt". In my notes somewhere is a total list, brings back fond memories for sure, "chainsaw", "187", "old-pu$$y", various forms of "pig" and now "thug-bolt"!!!

    Thanks to you both. I love reading this list, remembering those times and the pay-checks they helped provide.

    - - - - -

    You guys really need to pay attention to what the cops here tell you though. Do what the officer tells you to do when he/she tells you to do it. Some of the best advice you will ever get. Could save your life.

    Still smiling - - - - keep 'em coming!

     
  • fiepie posted at 12:19 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    chouli...I most certainly agree. Funny you never mentioned any of those submitted by the florist and some of the others.
    I agree with also on Mr. Todd being someone's relative.
    I will go even further than that but remind you that each of the people, officer's included, were or are someones brither, father, sister, mother, son or daughter.
    So...when and while we have compassion for Mr. Todd and his why don't you suggest we have the same compassion for the officer's and their's?

    The difference being...Mr. Todd put these officer's in the position where they had to make a decision and I am satisfied it was not a decision they wanted to have to make.
    Why be cruel to them??

     
  • chouli posted at 11:18 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    fiepie, your rant (10:36) is just ridiculous.
    how about instead of mocking each others comments we add to the conversation without all the ridicule...
    it's easy to get carried away, but be careful with your words as Mr. Todd was someone's son, friend, etc. and there's no need to be cruel to those that are having to deal with their loss. just have some compassion...

     
  • fiepie posted at 10:36 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    I'm sorry but after reading your comments one can only surmise the officer's conversations over their radios..."Hey man, there goes this Justin".."Remember, before we shoot him make sure there are no videos cameras in the neighborhood"..." I know a culdsac in Hayden where there ain't none"..." Let's chase him up there then"..."You don't want to shoot him out in the dark somewhere?"..."Naw, we need it took look like he was running away for some reason"..." Besides there is a dude up there who delivered flowers to my house while I was trying to sleep, maybe we can interupt his sleep".."You sure he doesn't have any drugs, weapons, ain't kidnapping his passenger, that he just wants to run up there somewhere where we can shoot him?" " Oh yeah, he's played this game a couple times but we only had a couple rocks to throw at him before. We were afraid someone might have a video camera and we didn't have clean uniforms on".
    "Hey anyone want coffee and donuts before we shoot this fellow?"..."Yeah, make mine black and I want...""

     
  • the floorist posted at 9:02 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    Hey man, I called Rogue a jerk because he's always been a jerk on this board...grumpy old coot. He, and his few cronies, have the typical cop mentality: "...what-oh-what would we EVER do without the police...?" I simply can't imagine...
    MMMMMMM is likely a cop wife biding her time until the old man gets vested in his retirement and she can do what most cop wives do...play the game and then blissfully divorce him and get half the retirement money. (THAT'S supposition...fyi...no matter how statistically true it is)

    Fame, fortune and notoriety from surveillance video? hmmm...if you say so...the money should be rolling in any day now. I don't recall ever seeing police video evidence that directly contradicts witness statement/video. Those little items of discovery are kept hidden during investigations, and after. I submitted a video of a guy being killed. Had I given it only to the police investigators, what do you all suppose would've happened to it? Seems these detracting comments towards me are more a show of jealousy, or dare I say, "wistfully vicarious cohesion?" Door number two, folks...you wear it well.

    Ya' know...(and I'm sure you haters will just assume I'm making this up as well) one of my parents retired from thirty-eight years of service to a major metropolitan police force. You would think this (parent) would, at the very least, feel somewhat partial to the officers involved. Not in this case...not by a long shot. The exact words were, "That could've been handled differently."

    Here's some more bad news to you "shoot first" supporters...don't be surprised when Todd's toxicology comes back negative. I've been told Justin Todd was sober. Of course, you'll never hear about that any time soon. Now, if the toxicology comes back positive for being under the influence of (whatever) it's an absolute given the Sheriff will make THIS info public knowledge because of the departments dire need to further vilify the suspect and exonerate the shooters.

    It's an exact science to shoot guns. To kill a human is not. My aforementioned "parent" admits openly that knowledge of civilian surveillance video recordings are VERY pertinent to the state of mind of ANY perpetrator of ANY shooting/killing/crime. The PF police weren't very happy to see I had video cameras, judging from the knocking on my door at 6:30am that Monday morning when they inquired about them. We viewed the footage that evening so as not to break the recording of the scene that morning. I then contacted an attorney friend and followed (their) tactful advice. I submitted the video to the police AND media. The police did not warrant/subpoena my DVR equipment...I volunteered the files/copies on a flash drive.

    ISP carries special issue .45's and there was a vehicular/weapon related run-in with the suspect prior to being shot and killed on our street. Now, 'esplain me how I'm lying, fabricating and fortune seeking. While you're at it, define to me why numerous investigators were poring over (our) yards looking for "evidence". They were looking for unaccounted for bullets and fragments. Very lame accusations from people who know this video raises questions about the facts and the testimonies told. And I'll say with impunity; if I knew I was being recorded by civilian surveillance video, I assure you I would be less hasty to kill a man and THEN BS the public over it. EVERYONE who I talk to agrees on that point, so, it's not a stupid question. It's stupid to NOT question the validity of the shooting...

    ...and you'd be lying, IChoseNID, if you looked me in the eye and said civilian video recordings wouldn't alter anybody's mental status over killing a person. It would just be more breakfast fodder for you and your family to watch and enjoy, apparently... pfft

    ...spare me the justified rhetoric, please...

    My MIL doesn't want me arguing with you boardies anymore...so...bye...

     
  • lykitlykthat posted at 8:26 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    lykitlykthat Posts: 4

    I'm sure Mr. Todd had friends who saw him as a "good guy" - despite the fact that he dealt meth for a living. According to his record in Idaho, he was a felon several times over, who obstructed/resisted/eluded police on multiple occasions. He was also a thief. In fact, there are 41 cases - some with multiple charges, in Kootenai County alone. His criminal record goes back to 1993 when he was still a juvenile. That being said, "detention" and "treatment" appear to have featured prominently in his life with little noticeable effect. Plainly, he was more than an addict, he was also criminally minded and obviously unwilling to change his behavior to benefit himself or anyone else. Maybe what the officers did does seem - if you will pardon the expression - like "overkill" - but they had ready access to his record and knew who and what they were dealing with when they confronted Todd and started chasing him. Which also means they probably knew that even if he "got away" they would find him eventually. But it's hard to dial back the adrenalin in the heat of the moment - especially when training and testosterone kick in and you believe innocent lives are at stake. It was a bad night, bad choices were made, officers reacted to those choices as they were trained to do. They didn't start it, but they finished it for sure. Despite all of those shots fired - only one person was killed - the one at fault in the situation.

     
  • Bill69 posted at 8:22 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Bill69 Posts: 584

    Does anyone not understand by now that whenever anyone in the criminal justice system screws up to such a degree that human life is lost unnecessarily, everyone who touches that case from then on is expected to join in on the circling of the wagons to protect one of their own. It doesn't matter if it's another cop, the cop's superiors, the local prosecutor's office, the Federal government, the judge who is looking at the case - it doesn't matter - they are all expected to do everything in their power to minimize their loses. And that's understandable to a certain extent, but good lines that have long ago been drawn to protect the public have now got to be crossed. Lies have to be told, reports have to be altered, markers have to be called in, etc. And in the end, citizens are lying dead or dying unnecessarily, and those directly responsible are getting away with it because they wear a badge. The wrong message is sent to other law enforcement officers whenever this happens, and in case you haven't noticed, it's happening at an alarming rate, and is now beginning to hit real close to home.

    It will continue to happen unabated unless and until the tax-paying public (their bosses) say enough is enough and demand that people in the criminal justice system not be allowed to be the only ones to investigate obvious wrong-doing on the part of people in the system. Every investigation involving the loss of life whether of a citizen by police or of police by a citizen should absolutely be finally determined by a panel of ordinary citizens who have been an active part of the process from the beginning of the investigation. Wake up and stop letting the system protect the system (at any costs).

     
  • RadRev2D posted at 7:18 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    RadRev2D Posts: 372

    looks more like a misguided teen who fell through the cracks.
    Repeated dismissals by the court or prosecutor.
    allowed to run to the end of his leash, then jerked back and prodded.
    definitely had their thumb on Todd and was looking.

    As for the shots...ever hear of a radiator?
    How far can one drive without cooling in an aluminum 4-banger?
    Ever hear of tack strips? It takes seven minutes to drive to CDA from PF.
    How soon before events like this come to your neighborhood.

    Expedience and forced compliance will be the game in the near future.
    In the end, public safety was put at risk and a felon avoided incarceration.
    Locals can breathe easy not having to cough up trial expenses.

    America has lost its Sense of Community.

     
  • choach slayer posted at 10:28 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    choach slayer Posts: 5

    all you computer wanna be cowboys running your mouths how my friend got what he had coming to him, was a low life etc.? He was a human being ya little pukes. I can only hope someone comes across your life in the future and grants you the same lack of respect for human life as your mouths & these officers have done for justin. In the mean time. . . .

     
  • chouli posted at 9:29 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    mmmmm, seriously, you drag me back into this conversation to say that I'm guilty of name calling?!
    you and your bunch of thug-bots have been bullying and doing nothing but name calling to everyone who doesn't agree with your mindset. Wow, never cease to amaze me. If your goal was to ruin this conversation, then you guys have succeeded.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:24 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    IChoseNID: Very well stated but you're preaching to the sick, lame, and lazy. You hit the nail on the head. This Evans guy is seeking fame and/or fortune with his silly letter and his grainy video. He sees stars and the only shows he could appear on would be on MSNBC.

    Just be glad that Todd wasn't black because we'd have the Al Sharptons of the world busing in protesters shouting the same drivel that Evans, chouli, Buzzkill, etc. are trying to pass off.

    Justice only applies to their little circle. Unfortunately, law enforcement doesn't have that luxury. We have to apply justice across the board.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 7:27 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    floorist said:

    "I'll ask it again since no one bothered to address it: Would they have been as eager to shoot 10 bullets from 3 different directions if they knew the scene was being recorded by civilian video surveillance? It's a simple question...really..."

    No floorist, it's not a simple question, it's a stupid question.

    You act as if the officers took stock of the camera situation. "No camera's, cool"! " Let's smoke this dirtbag". How would they know if they were on camera? Camera's are all over, from your low budget security cam, to cell phones, small video cameras, etc. Several houses on my street have security cameras, including mine. They aren't rare. Anyone could have videoed this incident. The officers clearly had no idea if they might be being filmed, and I'm quite sure that was the last thing they were concerned about.

    You captured a few seconds of blurry video, and it's obvious you intend that to catapult you to anti police crusader status, no matter how much wild, dishonest speculation you have to do to get there. Good luck. Maybe you'll get on the Rachel Maddow show or somethin....

     
  • fiepie posted at 7:22 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    florist...I think it is great that you have this video and if it indeed shows the officers went beyond what they should have then they should be prosecuted.
    I have a problem with what it shows but that may just be myself. Time will tell.
    I believe there will be other videos, from the vehicles, that will also be used and perhaps through all these it will help the officer with understanding it also.
    I do not believe there are any officers who are desperate to shoot someome. It had to be tramatic for all concerned.
    Be grateful that we have dedicated officers and be grateful we don't have to make the decisions that they sometimes must make.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 6:20 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Of course they would have done the same thing, flourist, no matter how many fine citizens were lying on their bellies recording. You're just one more coward hiding behind your lovely flowers while you hurl insults. . Honestly, what would you have done, thrown flowers at the car coming at you???

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 6:12 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    NoName, the weapon was the vehhicle.

    chouli, you're guilty of name calling, but the fine officers of this community will still look out for you

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 4:42 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Well, OK Wherley and Co....there's the intellect of the goofball who "did this for the people of our community...". Nothing more needs to be said or written.

     
  • the floorist posted at 4:04 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    Geez, Rogue...you're as edgy as a PF/ISP...gettin' all teste...

    ...you always were a jerk, Rogue...some things never change...

    Anyone knowing nothing about this little "dust up" watches a one minute video of a car getting chased into a dead end and the driver is killed in (3 seconds gun time?)...
    ... and THEN they see the body get dumped out of the car like a crash test dummy...

    ...well...

    ...THATlittle show of affection isn't on any dash cam...Rogue...TROOOLOLOLOLOL!!!

    I'd really like to see just how much of the shooting was recorded by dash cam...too bad we'll never know...bro!


    As for the details of ANY of these "investigations"...psshh...you're kidding me, right?

    A loooooot of people are pretty unhappy about this recent bizarre shooting incident and the numerous police shootings scattered throughout our State and the dozens and dozens across the country...jus' sayin' folks...call me what you will, but I did this for the people of our community. Why hide facts? We learn from the mistakes we make. If we hide behind superfluous distortions and wave our wands of justification, then we haven't learned a thing .

    I'll ask it again since no one bothered to address it: Would they have been as eager to shoot 10 bullets from 3 different directions if they knew the scene was being recorded by civilian video surveillance? It's a simple question...really...

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 3:55 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    NoName: Assuming that you are correct that "the point some folks are trying to make is that no one is infallible", then nobody makes that point better than me. Those who are being uber-critical aren't saying hat at all. They aren't saying wait for the investigations. They are accusing these officers of MURDER without a scintilla of evidence. What they are saying is that Evans and his partial/poor quality video are "infallible". They are calling Evans an eyewitness. By his own admission, Evans only saw the aftermath so he is relying on the same video the critics are and his agenda is so transparent, that in order for someone not to see that, it's because they CHOOSE not to see it.

    Of course "police wearing a uniform and badge can and do make mistakes." I said these officers might get charged, fired, disciplined, or exonerated...but the critics don't want to hear that the officers might possibly get exonerated because that doesn't fit their agenda.

    Actually I didn't say that "everyone on here with the possible exception of one person is armchair quarterbacking this shooting-". I've read several comments from people who actually KNOW how these things proceed and unfold and they're not "armchair quarterbacking". As a matter of fact, I don't think I used that term at all, until now.

    "Google is full of factual accounts of bad shootings, and that's a fact."
    ***************************************************************************
    It may or not be a fact. I don't rely on Google for "factual accounts". I will agree with you that not all police shootings are justified. Is somebody saying that this one is? I haven't.

    "...it doesn't take a Quantico education to apply common sense once all of the facts are in."
    *************************************************************************************************
    OK. So what's your point, that "the facts are in" in this case? If you're arguing that in this case common sense demonstrates that this is a bad shooting, then you're not applying common sense and it doesn't matter whether I'm Quantico educated or not, does it?

    "And let's not go down the path of cops who have been caught telling lies to grand juries......"
    ****************************************************************************************************
    OK let's not. Has there been a Grand Jury convened in this case? Have any of the officers in THIS case lied that we know of?

    The only UNREASONABLE comments that have made in this comment thread have been made by the agenda-driven critics. They all look foolish now and they attack me and gggggg, and MMMMMM, and Cougar in order to deflect their foolishness.


     
  • NoName posted at 2:53 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    NoName Posts: 253

    RC I agree with you most of the time.... and having read every post on here (embarrassed to say) I think the point some folks are trying to make is that no one is infallible and that even police wearing a uniform and badge can and do make mistakes. Google is full of factual accounts of bad shootings, and that's a fact. As you point out, everyone on here with the possible exception of one person is armchair quarterbacking this shooting- that said it doesn't take a Quantico education to apply common sense once all of the facts are in. And let's not go down the path of cops who have been caught telling lies to grand juries......

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 12:26 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    IChoceNID: Thank you. There is so much more detail I could get into about officer involved shootings but I suspect it would be an exercise in futility with these people. When someone who actually knows what he/she is talking about posts some verifiable information, these clowns say things like, 'I'm not impressed with..., or Rogue Cop is a security guard, or RC is not a real cop, blah blah blah. They try to make me the issue because they can't defend their foolish statements, and because I call it like it is even if that means telling them they're idiots.

    You can't have a civil discussion with people who don't know what they're talking about but they continue to call you an impostor. As I tried to tell chouli (I think it was) I wouldn't come in here arguing with a surgeon about how a surgery was wrong or right, or what might have gone wrong that resulted in a death, even though I have attended more autopsies than I ever wanted to.

    I loved watching E.R. but I'm not a doctor and never wore scrubs or worked with a scalpel. They've never had the COURAGE to wear a uniform with a badge yet they're experts because they watch CSI!

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 11:57 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    Rogue, I commend you for your patience level. You're debating with 8 year olds, who need no evidence, facts, or rational thought, to form their opinions. Their "opinions" were formed the second they heard about the incident. Now it's just shotgun blasts of random blatherings, trying to justify those opinions they formed without thought process.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 11:09 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Sorry about the typos...when I'm on my laptop I tend to type too fast and don't proofread.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 11:07 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    I'm convinced after reading this comment thread that videos for the patrol car cams with different perspectives could prove that Todd hit an officer and morons like floorist (Evans), chouli, etc. would still say it's murder because the officer didn't die and he gets paid to to get hurt. OR, they would say, it wasn't Todd's fault because the street was icy and those cops should have stayed in their cars.

    The interesting thing is that the cop haters are the only ones that have labeled this as a murder and DO NOT want to wait for the investigations to be completed. The folks defending aw enforcement are simply saying WAIT for the investigations to be completed. So, who'd rushing to judgement?

    floorist keeps trying to introduce new "facts", which are no more than rumors in support of this foolish letter. If officers fired at this guy previously, there would be plenty of evidence of it because there would be expended casings and there would be recorded radio traffic indicating "shots fired". If that was a rumor floating around, believe me the investigators would be scrambling to get to that location to secure it as a crime scene. Just because it hasn't appeared in the CdA press doesn't mean the cops aren't aware of it or that they're covering it up.

    floorist/Evans, you are obviously prone to melodrama and exaggeration just based on the stupidity of your writings. It's lies and innuendo like that which you have written that are the danger to society, not cops who are out doing their jobs.

     
  • fiepie posted at 11:05 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    Looking at the video...if...the officer who exited the vehicle to the right side...started shooting...as he exited the vehicle and kept shooting until the victim's vehicle stopped completely...time elapsed was about ten seconds.
    This includes him sliding on the ice, etc. The video does not allow one to see if this officer reloaded, had a banana clip or a "movie" gun, one that shoots endlessly without reloading but assuming he shot continuously, he shot a bunch of bullets.
    Now if he steadied himself. to get a better aim and knowing how sights are difficult to line up in the dark,
    then, after his slip, shown taking a shooter's stance, one would surmise that was when he actually started shooting.
    Time from slip to car stopping around three seconds...time it...

     
  • brentandrews posted at 10:09 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    brentandrews Posts: 72

    I hope the good guys here have not made decisions that turn them into the bad guys, because we need to be able to trust LE professionals to shoot when they need to. Someone mentioned the potential for a hostage situation in one of these homes. The fleeing suspect had to be apprehended and he drove the situation out of control. There is no question who the bad guy was, in my mind, and no time to weigh how bad or which kind of bad. He had to be stopped. Never run from the police. I might be carrying a load of marijuana, but when the time comes I will give up, and be hand cuffed. Prison is bad, but not as bad as it looks with those lights in the rear view mirror. My next book tells that vividly from an ex prisoner's perspective. I pray for the police and believe in their right to protect citizens, even with deadly force.

    Now, this article raises some interesting questions and I am enjoying all the commentary, as an outsider. Carry on.

     
  • the floorist posted at 10:04 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    Sorry 'bout the double post ??


    So uh...before I go to work...


    What if they rammed him first? I would chalk it up to 'self preservation'...not 'self defense' or 'vehicular assault' if he was running from them. Fight or flight, cornered cockroach syndrome...whatever...they wasted NO time shooting that guy dead, in technically, nine seconds. We're talking...bull rides last longer...

    They wanted to kill him...admit it... @@


    ::::off to work:::::

     
  • JulyBride posted at 9:51 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    JulyBride Posts: 6

    I'm sure this person would have felt differently about Justin Todd's level of threat had he made it out of his vehicle and in desperation this "scared Jack rabbit" had holed himself up in this individuals home for a day or mores worth of standoff. Criminals are desperate when being pursued. This man had no qualms of risking his girlfriend's life, nor those of police, other drivers or innocent pedestrians when he went on his escapade. Perhaps he could have planted his Nissan in the gentleman's from room of his home to better affect??
    I also find it interesting that taking items out of a car and putting them to the side and searching a car for further hazards like guns and knives, is so easily misconstrued as "planting evidence". Obviously, ones accusation that the police have watched too many movies and t.v. shows can be directed back as well.
    It is so easy for arm chair critics with a grudge to make accusations and find fault in the actions of people who were in a much different situation. Until one lives the life of a police officer one cannot know. I am not a police officer but I have many times taken a moment to think, what would I do if I had exactly 5 seconds to put all the information in perspective and made the right decision? I never have an answer. You just can't possibly give an answer to that kind of question until you have to do it. One perspective from a security camera or from the floor of their bedroom is very different from the ground level with a car reversing in your direction after several dangerous minutes of driving on slick roads, hoping that no one gets in the path of that Nissan, thinking "how many people in this culdesac could this man harm if he has a gun in that car?" or "How many shots can he get off at me or my partner if he has a gun?"
    If you feel that the incorrect decision was made and that you could have made a better decision with your 5 seconds of time, feel free to apply for a peace officer position, take the training, and apply your superior clairvoyance to making our city a safer place.

     
  • cougar posted at 9:41 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    cougar Posts: 230

    NoName stated:
    "While this man may have been a dirtbag, he was a non-violent dirtbag with no history of using weapons."

    Wake up NoName.
    The last crime he committed in his worthless life was a VIOLENT CRIME.

    Write it up anyway you want. Hitting anyone, especially a LEO with your vehicle is "vehicular assault," "assault with a deadly weapon," "assault against a LEO," or even "attempted murder." All felony VIOLENT CRIMES.

     
  • the floorist posted at 9:35 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    the floorist Posts: 331

    Many have come to our door to talk with my wife and I. None can see this as justifiable. I can only apologize to those who disagree. It's pointless to argue semantics with others who confuse morality with mortality.

    What's most disturbing to many is the fact that prior to dying in our cul de sac, the suspect was shot at a number of times in the Sunshine Meadows subdivision. Now, why do you suppose the "investigation" is withholding this information? We (my wife and I) know about it and have spoken to a witness who lives across the street from the drama that unfolded in a person's driveway there, but currently it's a dirty little secret the police want to keep quiet about. Why is that? It's definitely a precursor to the deadly finale. The ISP unsuccessfully employed a self-damaging pit maneuver, the police discharged weapons and Justin Todd was able to squirrel his way out of there. Todd's escape from Sunshine Meadows elevated the rage of the pursuers, literally to murderous degrees.

    10 seconds...10 more bullets...

    The "Us against Them" gap has widened. My wife and I have lost faith in our country's law enforcement ability to cull the killer elite from its ranks and curb its appetite for fear mongering. Police shootings are dramatically on the rise. Even more disturbing is the rumor of a "Dead Pool"...a certain club for cops who've killed defiant civilians. Our video certainly displays this eagerness to join the ranks of "killer cop"...almost as if it were a race to be the cop who killed him first. The only reason more bullet holes weren't in the driver's door was because the PF cop slipped on the ice. He didn't care who or what was around him. Like I've clearly stated; when the first shots were fired the vehicle was not endangering any police lives...however the police endangered their own lives first by exiting their vehicles and then rushing towards the fleeing suspect. From our perspective, that wasn't very bright, the Sentra was trapped in a dead end. The driver's intentions were to escape because he'd had bullets shot at him already and the police left gaping holes in their invisible blockade they haphazardly constructed in our cul de sac. I'd probably try to escape too if I knew they wanted to shoot me dead.

    The willingness to do their police job as professionals aside, their intention was absolute...

    ...it's as simple as that...


     
  • gggggg posted at 9:30 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    gggggg Posts: 206

    (While this man may have been a dirtbag, he was a non-violent dirtbag with no history of using weapons.)

    So where does the history begin? Seems like it might have started that night.

    Charles Manson was just a non violent doper without a history until he targeted Sharon and friends. They all start somewhere.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 8:22 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    This video and any others will be sent to professionals capable of enhancing them and properly (without bias of any persuasion) interpreting them. Even without video documentation hindsight often finds areas for improvement. Nobody disagrees that police work is hazardous and absolutely time critical. Make an error in judgments and the police could be harmed or by act of omission innocent citizens could be harmed. There's no question that the police did not deliver the stupidest of the decisions made that night. But not one of you critics goes to a job where part of the work description includes the daily prospect of deadly violence and the routine of intercepting angry desperate criminals. And it is quite obvious that some of you are grinding away on your own personal axes. It is evident that some of you need to work to improve your own situations and heed the lessons from this most unfortunate circumstance.

     
  • chouli posted at 8:00 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    thx noname, I agree.
    and a real concern is...who will be next?

     
  • NoName posted at 7:33 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    NoName Posts: 253

    Local police are not paid enough.
    Result, the talent pool is shallow indeed.

    Cops (in most area's) are well paid professionals who are scrutinized by outside entities.
    Locals, not so much- and they fall back on their position of "we are putting our lives on the line."
    While that may be true occasionally, Kootenai county isn't East O-town or Rampart. Being in a dangerous profession doesn't give you a pass on poor judgement during your shift.

    While this man may have been a dirtbag, he was a non-violent dirtbag with no history of using weapons.

     
  • chouli posted at 7:11 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    see, that's the mentality of LE that needs to change...

    big tough guys, bullying and name calling, threatening harassment

    how about more emphasis on SERVE AND PROTECT and a lot less attitude.

     
  • cougar posted at 8:14 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    cougar Posts: 230

    RC

    You're giving Yarply alot of credit aren't you?
    Saying he's as bright as Todd.

    chouli
    I won't try to make you laugh. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Sorry........

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:11 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Be careful chouli or I'll tell cougar what kind of car you drive.

     
  • chouli posted at 8:03 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    cougmmmmmrogue, you're all the same and you're all too full of yourself.
    I dont intend to give up my liberties to you or your thugbot pals.
    you keep repeating that same story about how dangerous your job is and what dirtbags the citizens are and maybe you will believe it one day. not me.
    you are a discredit to LE. take a look at the things you say and check your attitude.
    "I've forgotten more than you'll ever know"-- ha, don't make me laugh!

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 7:34 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    yarply - "Rogue. You all really amaze me with the simplistic reasoning that you show on a constant basis.
    Now I can see why others don't take you seriously anymore."
    ********************************
    That's the mentality that got Justin Todd killed.....he apparently didn't take them seriously. Congrats. You're at least as bright as Mr. Todd.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 7:31 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    yarply, I din't think I could find a bigger fool in these comment threads than Wherley but congrats, you just bumped him into second place. You didn't address ONE thing that I said to you but instead went off on a tangent about cops shooting at someone who had dirt on another cop or some such stupidity. Is that the sum total of your knowledge of law enforcement?

    The reason you didn't address ONE thing I said is because you know you'd look like an uneducated rube so you chose to obfuscate and change the subject.

    You know if this was a story about a medical doctor performing surgery I wouldn't pretend to know something about it and incessantly post argumentative BS, ESPECIALLY if I was getting my rear kicked. But you and some others apparently don't mind looking like idiots grasping at straws.

    I won't tell you how to bag groceries if you don't try to argue with me about police work. Next time "Cops" is on try paying attention or change the channel. It's above your head, Sherlock!

    "murder"

     
  • yarply posted at 6:52 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    yarply Posts: 485

    That much huh? early stages of Alzheimer's? Sorry.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 6:51 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Agree, Rogue, NHI is an accurate description!

     
  • cougar posted at 5:40 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    cougar Posts: 230

    Yarply

    I've forgotten more than you will ever know!

     
  • yarply posted at 5:20 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    yarply Posts: 485

    Coug. Have you been to the Twilight Zone to have knowledge from which you speak?
    Or do you from inexperience talk of things you know nothing about?

     
  • yarply posted at 4:40 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    yarply Posts: 485

    Rogue.


    You all really amaze me with the simplistic reasoning that you show on a constant basis.
    Now I can see why others don't take you seriously anymore.

     
  • cougar posted at 4:32 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    cougar Posts: 230

    Yarply

    Contrar... I don't think they were eating donuts or drinking coffee when the ended this problem.

    And you post to MMMMMM....... Twilight Zone. Get off the weed and try to post an intelligent thought.
    Todd was anything but a good person. His fate was in his hands, and he called the shots. (no pun intended.)

     
  • yarply posted at 4:13 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    yarply Posts: 485

    Actually Coug, I would have to disagree with you on that. Cop's don't have better things to do than follow criminals around. Unless you think eating donuts, drinking coffee or giving speeding tickets is a better usage of their time.

    In case you did not know it, thats what they get paid to do. Contrary to false popular myth and wildly exaggerated urban legend, they don't get paid to eat donuts and drink free coffee but get paid to protect and serve by enforcing the law by arresting suspected violators, without putting innocent bystanders in danger....
    You know. Protect and Serve.

    So, UMMMMM,

    What say a cop has shot at you and you actually,,, God forbid,, have not done anything wrong???? Can you run then? Or say you know something incriminating about someone on the force and all of a sudden there is a manhunt to get you by his fellow officers? Could you run then, being in fear of your life and safety?.
    Or say a cop is acting very aggressive and irrational and the last time you got pulled over, one about killed you and you were scared,,, Wow! Now if he was a cop he could just feel in fear of his life and shoot the other cop.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 3:40 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    NHI definitely describes Wherley, MMMMMMMMM!

    yarply: This isn't a case where they had the guy under surveillance by undercover cars and could have just followed him to 7-11. But what if they did and tried to take him down in a parking lot and he was armed? What if there was a "cacophony of gunfire" and the clerk or a customer got hit? Then you (who called this case a murder), Wherley, chouli, and all the other know-it-alls would be criticizing the cops for putting the clerk in danger.

    The cops can't keep every scrote under surveillance 24-7. Occasionally a car gets spotted by an alert cop or gets stopped for some traffic violation and they happen upon a wanted person. At that moment in time, it's up to the suspect how the events unfold.

    If you and the other know-it-alls would spend as much time reading the facts as reported in the paper instead of some clown's letter that he's trying to get published in "Modern Detective", as you do trying to find some scintilla of fault on the part of the officers you could avoid looking like a curbside lawyer.

    You see it's really quite simple...obey the law, yield to red lights and siren, submit to lawful arrest and you won't get hurt. What do you think this guy was doing after he was surrounded by cops on a dead-end street...moving his car off of the grass so he wouldn't offend the homeowner, putting his car in a position for the tow truck to hook it up, getting ready to surrender while yelling, "OK guys, you got me. I give up." Or maybe he was trying to say, "Oh sorry, were you guys trying to pull me over?"

    He was a wanted felon. He was surrounded by cop cars on a dead end street AFTER he led them on a high-speed dangerous chase. The cops were driving MARKED cars equipped with red lights and sirens. At one point he was stopped. All he had to do was put his car in park and wait for the cops to tell him to get out of the car. At any time during that pursuit he could have pulled over, put his car in park and surrendered. But instead, when he was in a dead end surrounded by the cops, he puts his car in reverse and attempts to continue his escape and then puts it forward and drives right toward a MARKED patrol car. I can't tell from the silly video whether he hit or almost hit an officer and NEITHER can you or Mr. Duck Evans.

    But YOU, who wants to believe this guy was murdered continue to make asinine statements because you've watched CSI on TV and that's all YOU need in order to indict the police.

     
  • cougar posted at 3:26 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    cougar Posts: 230

    Yarply wrote:
    What is really weird about this case is that instead of a covert surveillance of a potentially violent individual, which allows the person in question too proceed to where ever he was going and making an arrest after he and or they exit the vehicle, the police decided to make a hard arrest.

    That's good Yarply, Uhh except one little flaw.
    Cops have better things to do than follow a felon suspect around waiting for them to land somewhere.
    News flash......That's why they put those pretty blue and red lights on their cars. When they are behind you and they come on, pull over and stop. ( That way they don't have to follow you all over Gods creation.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 2:55 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Yarply, no need to be troubled about this. Just remember never to threaten a police officer with a deadly weapon - - - your vehicle.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 2:51 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    yarply, anyone who runs from the cops should be charged with a felony and given mandatory prison time, regardless of the reason for the attempt to stop. .

    Thanks, chouli, that kind of name calling always puts a smile on my face - - - - still smiling now! Another two of my favorites were "187" and "chainsaw." Pig's o.k. and pig with lipstick is good too.

    Jeffrey, I got the letters switched. Instead of HNI, should have been NHI. And it wasn't any kind of training program. It was code for speed of medical response.

    And, Rogue, always appreciate your comments and input!

     
  • yarply posted at 2:10 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    yarply Posts: 485

    What is really weird about this case is that instead of a covert surveillance of a potentially violent individual, which allows the person in question too proceed to where ever he was going and making an arrest after he and or they exit the vehicle, the police decided to make a hard arrest.

    Of course it's always troubling when officer testimony does not match that of the actual facts. It's easy to blame cops for excessive force. But it's equally easy to blame a druggy, or a criminal for their actions which lead to these types of situations.

    Police are supposed to be smarter than criminals and know that criminals run. Criminals running in a car puts other people in danger. Chasing criminals through residential areas is reckless and endangers people who live in the area.

    What is most troubling though is the apparent attitude by some, that the suspects life has less value than a police officers. That a cops life is more important. That if a police officer,, who has voluntarily taken a job, which they know can be dangerous, feels his life is in any danger, can open fire on an individual or individuals.
    It's troubling.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 11:51 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    Exactly chouli!! Postulating improbable or impossible alternative actions for the officers, IS just deflecting. I'm glad you see that!!

    Ignoring Todd's alleged attempt at running down a police officer for the moment, had the officers just let Todd drive away, jumped back into their cars continuing the pursuit, and this dangerous lunatic ran over a child, T-boned a station wagon, etc., there would be a hue and cry over "why didn't they stop him when they had the chance"? Heck, had he just crashed and killed himself and his passenger, the same folks would be screaming about it. And were the police to have dropped the pursuit, and let this "non dangerous" felon go, and he did hurt someone, you folks would still be screaming for the heads of the cops that "didn't do their jobs".

    These officers had to make split second decisions, under extreme stress, while you sit back in your easy chair and look for every crazy reason to make their actions wrong. That's not the way it works. The police are given some latitude to make those decisions, even if their decisions aren't perfect. Could it have been handled differently? Who knows? But the fact is, Todd's death rests squarely on his own shoulders. HE'S the one that put himself in that position. It's just fortunate no one else was killed or severely injured.

     
  • Uncle Guido posted at 10:48 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Uncle Guido Posts: 46

    WOW!..... whoever wrote this story is a complete moron, since you have a crystal ball and dont believe that drug addicts and criminals do whatever it takes to get away from the police lets back it up a little and let this guy get out of his car and run into your house and take your family hostage with a standoff, Maybe you would be thinking they should have ended the chase before he took someone elses life. Do you think that police officers are equiped with Xray vision and can tell when a criminal is armed, they have to think the worst, Its not like this guy flashed his ID and said what did I do wrong, he was a criminal and they new that. Law enforcement is not a perfect scenereo and never will be so why dont you suit up and take the streets. Lets see how much you can stand up to the fear and valor it takes to put your life in jepoerdy everyday.Maybe they want to make it home alive to see there wife and kids.Sure! a man lost his life here and prayers to the family but if you put yourself in the life of crime and drugs WTH do you think may happen. Do us all a favor, think before you start flapping your flappers.

     
  • yarply posted at 10:23 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    yarply Posts: 485

    Gosh. I remember when most of you guys/gals first came onto this site.
    Some of you evidently have a LOT too say. To bad that some of you, even though you say a lot,, don't really say anything at all.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 10:03 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Wherley, I agree with chouli.....keep on commenting. If you want to make a fool of yourself, who am I to object?

     
  • chouli posted at 9:14 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    shooting into a car is just deflecting the topic. everyone can have their opinion. can we drop that topic now?

    gregmill and choach and any others, i'd like to see you send your insights to the letters to the editor so the print version can gain more insight that they will never read in the press. it's important to know the details of just how 'hardened' a criminal this pursuit and shoot to kill was for.

    and JW, keep on commenting... don't give in and don't go away.

     
  • IChoseNID posted at 11:49 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    IChoseNID Posts: 83

    Good Lord,

    A day later, and the moron, armchair quarterbacks, are still talking about shooting through engine blocks.....

    Even if the officers were armed with whatever magnum hand cannons and armor piercing ammunition you fantasize about, (but they weren't), why do you think think the vehicle would have screeched to a halt like a cartoon character if they plugged a hole in the block?

     
  • chouli posted at 10:56 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    You guys are off the topic again. Can you focus?

    Mmm actually wrote -- “chouli, you should be greatful for the testosterone. Just be glad that if you need a cop, one of these testosterone laden guys will show up - well hopefully for your sake. You must be a woman! And, not a particularly appreciative one. The more "equal" women become in this country, the more testosterone they seem to want to remove from their protectors. Fools!!”
    Now I know that you’re a pig in both senses of the word.

    Shame on you, Cougar for writing – “Todd was a idiot that had 25 times to clean his act up and couldn't take the hint. You try to run a cop over and you're gonna get shot. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good Job LE.”

    I don’t know how you 3 could possible act more unprofessional. Everything you guys say speaks poorly of your any professionalism you think you have.
    Advice – cut out the steroids, go to charm school.

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 9:26 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    Rogue,
    Your always entertaining for a pissant mutt :))

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:42 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Wherley, I'm never on your side. You accidentally fall onto the right side occasionally but that's as close as it gets.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:34 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Wherley - " Myself, I have refrained from any opinion yet..."
    **************************************************************************
    Wherley, you can't help yourself can you? Your opinions flow out of you like diarrhea of the mouth. You have more opinions than there are Chins in a Chinese phonebook. You're a laughing stock, Jeffy. Close the lid when you go to bed to keep the raccoons out.

    My Gawd somebody do an intervention on this clown.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 8:27 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    ggggggg, no I don't!

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 8:25 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    Rogue just remember you seem to be on my side in this one too. So if my opinion is so poor and it is the same as yours. Well I guess that level of critical thinking is above you.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 7:56 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Well, there you have it...Wherley in his own words. I report, you decide.

    Wherley, you can fool the Buzzkills of this world but not the people who have an intellect like cougar and MMMMMM.

    I'll say it again, either produce the comment where you say I posted your address or shut you lying pie hole. You're a liar and are afraid to look foolish so you'd rather say that it was 2 or 3 years ago and you don't want to look for it.

    Oh all right, it's the dumpster behind Top-o-China. You caught me!

    Yo Buzzkill, I'm not trying to impress you or anybody else. Critical thinking you say? Why don't you employ the same critical thinking to what Evans and his video purport to show. You don't know "what the cops told everybody". The cops involved haven't told "everybody" anything. As a matter of fact there have been no public statements from the officers INVOLVED. You have read preliminary and updated statements from police spokespersons. The only reason you've seen those is because the public wants to know what happened. You gave great credibility to a guy who laid on his floor until the "cacophony" of gunshots ended. Then he wrote an "eyewitness" account of what he saw on his sub-quality video. Why not follow your own advice and use some "critical thinking".

    I've never once said these officers were justified and I know a whole lot more about it than you and Worthless Wherley. The hallmark of the foolish folks of the world is jumping to conclusions about which you know little or nothing.

    These officers may indeed be polygraphed. They may be fired. They may be prosecuted. They also may be completely exonerated. But of course the latter wouldn't satisfy you, Wherely and Co., because it doesn't fit into you preconceived scenario, and it doesn't fit this letter writer's frustrated career as a novel writer. Go back and read it again. Take out all the superfluous adjectives, adverbs, and melodrama and what do you have...a guy who is narrating his poor-quality video because he was laying on his floor waiting till the shooting stopped.

    Sorry to burst your bubble. If you want to hitch your wagon to Wherley's dumpster, have at it but you'll look foolish in the end!

     
  • gggggg posted at 7:26 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    gggggg Posts: 206

    RC, do you know where the old 47 was?

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 7:24 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    cougar,

    ROFL yep you got me. You got all that from the little info from these articles and this video from one direction. You are the champ of having all the answers. Myself, I have refrained from any opinion yet, but you know me sooooo well. :) what a joke

     
  • Buzzkill posted at 7:07 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Buzzkill Posts: 41

    If Rogue Cop is actually a cop, I am not impressed with is intellect or critical thinking. The problem is the video and the witness acount appear to show a different story than what the cops told everybody. I hope these cops are being tested with lie detectors.

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 7:03 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    MMMMMM,

    From my side, I find his knowledge lacking. He has stated in previous threads that in joint IC operations, Police are always in charge. From the Fire/rescue side I found that laughable from experience. Also he seems totally oblivious to the knowledge4 that Fire service train in Clandestine lab processing and cleanup. So either he is so specialized he knows little of other close working groups and the wide verity of command situations, or he is one of the few officers that show up on a scene and demand command and are a hazard to everyone there. I have seen more than one fire chief call in shift supervisor to rid a scene of that type.

    Everything he displays online here speaks poorly of his professionalism. He actually does think he is an expert in every facet of police work, and personally I have never meet any COPs that are that bombastic and brash. Rare to find a COP that doesn't have a pretty high opinion of themselves, but nothing like the level Rouge portrays.

     
  • cougar posted at 6:49 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    cougar Posts: 230

    MMMMMM

    You have to understand JW is just another punk that thinks he has all the answers, but doesn't have a clue.
    Todd was a idiot that had 25 times to clean his act up and couldn't take the hint.
    You try to run a cop over and you're gonna get shot. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Good Job LE.

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 6:23 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    MMMMMM,

    Unlike the BS Rogue throws, I have never even hinted at any Law Enforcement background. I have heard of HNI training courses though if I remember right that is for negotiations training and things like that.

    Rouge,

    I'm not going to waste my time going back 2 or 3 years to find your post, you and I know the truth and your bluster won't change it.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 5:47 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Wherley, not only are you mentally deficient, but a liar as well. I've never posted your address. You are a delusional little man. Don't exalt yourself by telling people that I have posted your address, moron. Besides, everybody knows dumpster divers don't have addresses and I knew you'd never take the challenge, pu $$y!

    MMMMMM, the Wherleys and choulis of the world have low self-esteem and the only way they can pump themselves up is to attack people who have the courage that they'd never have. How many times have we seen Wherley jump into these stories about cops and immediately criticize the police before even half the facts are known? He criticized the handling of a found explosive device at a high school. He criticized a shootout at the end of another pursuit of a dangerous felon, and his rationale was that drugs should be legal then we wouldn't have escapees from prisons. Turns out that guy was armed with 2 handguns. He's really frustrated because he wanted to be a cop in Oregon but couldn't cut the mustard.

    Turns out the sum total of Wherley's depth of knowledge is that he used to ditch class in 6th grade and go shooting his .22...he said it, not me.

    OK Jeffy, here's your challenge....find the comment where I posted your address and show everybody. You are a black-hearted liar, and coward doesn't quite describe what a low-life you are.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 5:14 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    The whole idea of you guys fighting seemed pretty silly. But the "can I can I" was a joke, Jeffrey. Like a little kid tugging on his mommy's coat begging for candy or a toy.

    I understand about the women's rights activists, but you simply cannot change mother nature. Well, maybe you can change it little by little because recently tests have shown that men's sperm counts and testosterone levels are going down. Many of these women's right activists claim they don't need men. Now, we're really way off the subject!!!

    If you and Rogue meet for coffee, please invite me.

    Rogue and I had a discussion maybe 2 - 3 years ago and he listed some previous work he had done. I recognized, because of some of my previous work, agencies and locations etc. what he was saying and I believe him. There were some slang expressions that only those who had been there or worked there would recognize. He and I did not have the same jobs. One in particular was "HNI". Does that ring a bell with you?

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 3:48 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    MMMMMM,

    "Women are fools for trying to take this out of the male of our species." If you were to De-generalize that with "Women rights activists" or even "Some Women" I would not think it a totally misogynistic statement. But any Man that takes offense at a woman silly enough to think they can take it out of the male are fools, too.

    When you lump yourself with that moron Rogue by urging his idiocy on with comments like "Rogue, can I come too? Can I Can I????? Great fun! Coffee afterward?" If you don't support a fellow officer with his type of demeaning attitude to any member of public. Then you are as bad as him.

    You have never shown this type of attitude in the past, it is pretty shocking to here it from you.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 3:16 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Jeffrey, what on earth is going on with you today?? I've never slammed you in all the times we've commented here. So, get off my case personally, o.k.?

    It is not my opinion that police work is more dangerous than some of the occupations you listed. However, there is a difference. The main focus in police work is protection. So, while those other occupations may be dangerous and have a part in protecting people, that is not their MAIN focus. That's where those with more testosterone come in. It's nature that the male is the more protective. There are always exceptions, but that's the way we're made. It's in our DNA. That's why there is such an uproar about women in combat and in jobs that are more traditionally male. This is off the subject, but chouli brought up the testosterone thing and I'm responding to you and to her. A mother animal, bird etc will fight to the death for her offspring - - - a man will fight for his offspring AND for his country. It is in his DNA. Women are fools for trying to take this out of the male of our species.

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 3:02 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    Oh, congratulations. Police Sheriffs and Patrol Officers finally hit the top 10 because of a one year 20% increase in deaths. Couldn't have anything to do with the I am God attitude some of them are getting. Or maybe the crooks are finally noticing the shot first ask questions if they survive attitude of the system. Or the Guilty till proven innocent system we have come too.

    I have a feeling before the death rate goes back down, the system will have to change back to a service industry, and get rid of that 1% of officers that think they are Vigilantes for hire like Rogue Cop and MMMMMM.

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 2:38 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    MMMMMM,

    Well you sorry he is an officer you can include the rest of society too. No one needs officer with his menal deficiencies, and if one too, or your Misogyny and he man barbarism. Are you two pillow partners too! No I don't even want to know.

    Please remind us of the perils of the JOB. Is it more deadly than Fisherman, aircraft pilots and flight engineers, iron and steel workers, and farmers and ranchers? How about Refuse and Recyclable Material Collectors, Drivers (truckers and salespeople), Electrical Power Line Installers and Repairers, or Roofers?
    Nope, According to Forbes Police Sheriffs and Patrol Officers are behind all those vital Jobs in America of America's Most Dangerous Jobs. Everyone of those Jobs are doing vital things that keep everyone in America Safe and Healthy. Get off your High Horses. Being a COP is just another job and safer than most. Any Officer that thinks they are more vital than the next guy is not a COP they are a menace to society.

     
  • yarply posted at 2:09 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    yarply Posts: 485

    murder.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 1:33 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    sorry, buzzkill, but Rogue is the real deal.

    chouli, you should be greatful for the testosterone. It's helps to protect wimps and cowards, you know those who hide and throw rocks. You're still alive, thanks in part to testosterone. You think they need sensitivity training?? Or to be more politically correct? Just be glad that if you need a cop, one of these testosterone laden guys will show up - well hopefully for your sake.

    You must be a woman! And, not a particularly appreciative one. The more "equal" women become in this country, the more testosterone they seem to want to remove from their protectors. Fools!!

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 11:48 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    chouli,

    Thanks, but don't worry. rogue is only a light diversionary entertainment for me. I really do think he Hates COPs to talk out of his ask like he does. He has known my address for years now, so if he was anything more than the cowardly bully type he portrays here online, he would have already shown up and been hauled away. I don't take bait from losers like him,

     
  • Buzzkill posted at 11:13 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Buzzkill Posts: 41

    I seriously doubt Rogue Cop is actually a cop. More likely he's a rent-a-cop at the Silver Lake Mall. A lot of bluster behind that tin badge...

     
  • chouli posted at 11:05 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264

    alas, off topic again.
    if only the testosterone could be removed from you guys so you could focus more and fight less...

    jw, dont take their bate.

    choach, don't give more info than necessary. LE knows what you speak of & only wants to know what you know. remember sun tzu, my friend.

    now get away from your computers and enjoy yer saturday...no snow!

     
  • milburnschmidt posted at 11:04 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    milburnschmidt Posts: 1161

    LEXACON you and I are in agreement on the difficulty of stopping a car with a handgun., My reference to the .50 bullet was that it is the only round you could REASONABLY expect it to penetrate all components and destroy the engine without expending numerous rounds into the area of the engine.. Obviously that is out of the question in this situation. There are many rounds capable of penetrating blocks but that doesnt mean they will when fired. Not all officers even though trained are capable of accurate sustained fire and its componded at night time when the adrenelene is pumping.
    Certainly many rounds are capable of stopping a car if hitting the right spot. The average officer though usually use rounds designed to expand and stay in the torso to prevent collateral damage relying on expansion not penetration. I consider myself expirienced but not a expert but I can assure you most officers would be reluctant to shoot up a car to serve a warrant or traffic ticket. I retire from this conversation with my last thought being that shooting a moving or stopped vehicles to disable them in a city neighborhood has a good chance of unintended consequences . I will wait to see the report if indeed the officers did expend rounds into the car to stop it and what the results were. Furthur speculation is just a waste of time till we know what really transpired..

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 10:44 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    Aww Rogue,

    You know my address, you were the first to post in on these pages, in an attempt to scare me. You name the time or just show up out of the primordial slime you crawl from.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 10:20 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Rogue, can I come too? Can I Can I????? Great fun! Coffee afterward?

    - - - - - - -

    coach slayer, you talk like you know something the rest of us don't. What is your source?

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 10:11 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    fiepie,

    "I'm a communist,"

    Wow and I thought you only had Communistic tendencies but thanks for clarifying that. Now at least we don't have to wonder what guides your ideology.

     
  • fiepie posted at 10:08 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    J.W...sorry about that but I forgot to invite you to join us commies. Our rules include taking pride in our country, respecting the laws of our country and State, having respect for our neighbors, saluting or placing our hand over our hearts in respect for our flag, being kind to the elderly, handicapped, disabled.
    We open doors for women and others if we are in that position. We respect our military and even our police departments knowing they are our first line of defense.
    I sleep peacefully at night knowing that if it is possible these people will lay their life's on the line for me and mine.
    I do not fear either the military nor the police but I do know if I violate a law I may have to be faced with their presence.
    I would encourage you to join our party, the one you call communist, we use to go by the name of Americans and are still proud of that name.
    Change might be good for you...try it....

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 10:04 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Wherley never disappoints and always takes the bait. Get a ghost writer or something, wouldja. I don't have to go back and find anything you said that supports my assertions. fiepie did a good job of it and you said it best.

    This is the second or third time you have made a veiled threat to come face to face with me. Name the time and the place. Bring back-up and a video cam for You Tube, fool!

     
  • fiepie posted at 9:49 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    A "normal citizen" like you....I wonder how many citizens ever have any dealings with a police officer.
    I would think more than half see the police, perhaps have talked to an officer but have never been stopped for a traffic ticket nor anything else.
    But then their all communist arent' they?
    "fear for my freedom"...what do they do have your house surrounded? Pick you up constantly? Charge you with outrageous charges? Beat your dog? Slash your tires?
    Ahhhh, I got it, charge you more for gas than your neighbor...rotten officers.
    Why are or do you live in fear? I don't but then I'm a communist, sorry.
    I have never been arrested nor charged with anything I was not guilty of. Maybe you can't accept that what they charge you with is in actuality something you did wrong...sorry, forgot, your not a communist so you don't do things wrong and that's why you live in fear. Got it...

     
  • choach slayer posted at 9:47 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    choach slayer Posts: 5

    wow! a whole bunch of jibber jabber of things that have nothing to do with this story. This isn't about all you cop loving cowards trying to prove your brave. Your not and I'd love to prove it but ya boys tell to much. To quick to destroy someones life instead of standing solid behind no man or system. 'Choaches' is the best way to describe these comments. LISTEN! Justin Todd's car wasn't event registered in his name. No license plate reading device flagged him. It's all lies to cover up a murder. The police had to ask the girl who's face they just blew off because they had no clue. these COWARDS better be held responsible for what they did.

     
  • milburnschmidt posted at 9:42 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    milburnschmidt Posts: 1161

    CLOSE ENOUGH My comment on typing slow was meant to inject a little humor into my comment not a reflection on your ability to understand or your intelligence. My apology I dont insult other posters. As to my flawed logic I was a supervisor on third shift for 21 years in a major mid west city for 25 years and have been involved in many officer involved shootings and in this situation myself many times so my opinions are based on expirience nor gossip or re runs of police story I can tell you shooting at a vehicle iunless the occupant is firing back is a bad idea and unnecessary use of force endangering anyone in the vicinity. To many of the commenters have seen movies of cars stopping or blowing up and that never happens in real life.Very few Depts would call that acceptable or condone it..Some of the shootings were border line with good police practice most were righteous shootings.No deadly confrontation was ever above criticism or perfect satisfying everyone. You play the hand you are dealt. Deadly force guide lines from a dept usually just state you are only authorized to use deadly force to protect your self or the community. The devil is in the details. Having watched the video I see little in it to make a judgement. I see a lot of supposition and opinion in the letter writers statement. im sure it was traumatic but much of his statement will not make it into his deposition. Perhaps the original video shows more detail. As to your snarky comment about my grammar and puncutation Im 74 and give a rats A-- about those things at my age. Has nothing to do with my opinion and exprience. When I get a thought I roll with it before its lost. If punctuation is more important to you than ideas good for you. . I will wait to read the outcome of he investigation which is all that counts and let the cheap shor experts and ankle biters attack each other and have their food fight for the next hundred posts.

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 8:38 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    fiepie,

    I noticed you conveniently left out the context of those statements like. "I find more and more Officers, talking more like union thugs, as experienced earlier in this post, than COPs sworn to protect and serve." Totally true in context. but you don't seem to care for truth.

    Or how about this one you don't seem to like to Acknowledge I said, " My fight is higher than this case, it is about the entire system and the failures in it that make normal citizen like me, fear for our freedom and question those that should be our finest AND 99% of them are."

    Wow maybe you are truly a moron, your without a doubt a liar that spins the truth like a top.

     
  • MMMMMM posted at 8:30 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Because, gregmill, the vehicle is not the one with the intent.
    - - - - - - - - -

    Like the saying "guns don't kill, people do" (something like that) Cars don't kill either, drivers do.

     
  • fiepie posted at 7:56 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    J.W...well excuse me but..."at this display of immaturity and unproffesionalism"..."protection of the untouchables"..."police and prosecutors destroy citizens lives every day"..."talking like a union thug"..."if a person is wanted for questioning, not even a crime...America destroys them"..."Police and our justice system keeps destroying innocent lives...by arresting them for suspicion of a crime"...and of course, even if you were innocent you would run???

    We hire officers to catch bad guys and there is no doubt that some who are hired shouldn't be in that proffesion but the majority take their position very serious.
    I have never met an officer who wanted to shoot somebody but have met plenty of people who, my opinion, might have deserved being shot.
    As with your job you have hopes of going home at shift end to enjoy your family, friends, watch the tube, whatever. These people are looking for that also.
    I wasn't there during this chase nor have I ever had to deal with the fellow who was shot. I did not see what transpired to the time of entrying this culdsac.
    From this video, my impression, I see an officer to the right move out of the way of a vehicle that is backing up. The officer slips, apparently on ice, the vehicle starts forward.
    Some wrote and said there was an officer directly in front of the vehicle when it started forward.

    Now, you are the officer who slipped, you are apparently yelling to get the driver to stop, most likely, in your line of vision, corner of your eye, you see your co-worker standing in front of that vehicle as it begins to move forward. Is the driver attempting to run the officer down? Trying to parrellel park? Maybe wanting to go in and order a burger? You have how much time to make a decision?
    Two seconds?
    Ever been hit by a car? Just "bumped" into? Bought bad words to your mouth, didn't it?

    As with what you stated I will also wait to see what the car videos show. I will also wait for the rest of the officers to relate what they thought, saw, felt, acted on.
    The truth is that this fellow, innocent or guilty, should have stopped for the first police vehicle that turned it's lights on and seen what the problem was.
    They didn't have to chase him. They could have waited until he went to seven-eleven. But what if he had hit you just a mile or so from where the officers turned in to get a cup of coffee?
    You would be yelling deriliction of duty, no cops when you need one.

    I realize stopping for an officer is communistic, I was taught it was kinda adult behavior, but usually you find a polite person who allows you to continue on your way after a brief stop.
    Not "immature or unprofessionable", not "talking like a union thug", not trying to "destroy citizens lives everyday"....

    I am not nor ever have been an officer. I am related to one who died while an officer.
    I do deal with officers on occasion and have heard and seen them take an oral berating and still maintain their dignity.
    I have a lot of respect for what they do and how they respond and am aware that some act just like you or I would if we were found in that position.

    You say you were not berating the officers but were willing to wait for the out come. Can you accept the decision if it is indeed found that these officers acted in accordance with their training?

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 6:51 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    Rouge cop,

    Please go back through this thread and find One incident that I have Talked about any of the "know all the facts". Find one time that I have Blame anyone in this incident. Find you time that I have said anything against a COP in this incident. You seem to have a hard on for me, it's pretty disturbing, Your pretty disturbing. I do hope one day you do come out from under your rock and come face to face with me, I want to watch you wet yourself. You know who I am, you know I am no Coward, you know you are.

    Have a nice day. Fetch ubu fetch

     
  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 6:39 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    fiepie,

    You are sounding like Rouge Cop a Complete moron.

    Look back at all my comments, Find one comment I have made That, "You rant and rave at how bad these fellows were and you determined how in error they were" I have made No determination one way or the other on any of the facts on this incident. In Fact I have stated many times I hope it is found to be a just shooting. But do keep making yourself out to be a Moron even though you normally aren't. It makes for great laughs.

    "I have often thought how it would be if one of these jerks, who run from a cop instead of stopping and acting as an adult, ran over someone such as yourself so you would get a first hand look at what the officer's were trying to prevent." With the point of sell technology we have today there is no reason for car chases. Want for them to buy a twinky at the 7-11 and get them as they walk out, but then that wouldn't give them reason to have a car chase and all that adrenaline laced fun that interferes with good judgement and commonsense.

    Please tell me when have I said I run from COPs. I said, If I knew a Warrant was on me for something I don't trust the justice system and I would run, especially if I were innocent. I wouldn't be running from COPs, which I respect, but from the injustice system we have allowed to take control. You have a problem removing SYSTEM from PEOPLE? OH yes, you have that same problem with anyone That hates the Education SYSTEM , you say they HATE the teachers. What a muddled mind you have!

    Before you open your yap again do reread MY comments. And ;have someone with a comprehension level above that 3rd grader you seem so found of, explain it to you.

    The only ones that have been Ranting and Raving one this Thread, so far, are the cowardly self-professed Officers hiding behind their fake names & avatars and you.

    I will say it again, MY only statement on this Thread about this incident. I hope this is found to be a just shooting, but with prior statements released, and this video surfacing, it seems someone might be losing their job or going to jail. I know this is only one angle so I hope the car videos show something different.

    If you go back you will find that has been my theme from the beginning, I expect the type of BS you have been saying from, 'Rogue Cop' sitting in front of his computer, smoking a cigar with his underroos on the outside of his Batman holloween costumer, but not you.

    I know you are a hold to communistic believes but you also usually try to hold onto some reality, why not today?

     
  • MicaBay posted at 5:39 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    MicaBay Posts: 33

    Question. 1.). How many rounds were fired into this car?
    2.) How many times was the target (the driver) hit?
    3.) How many rounds struck the passenger?
    4.) Why did the passenger get arestted?

     
  • gregmill posted at 10:40 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    gregmill Posts: 1

    Unfortunately 95% of you writing these comments have no idea what you are talking about!
    I chose to look at the facts and oh by the way, use my own name, before I open my mouth.
    So maybe I can educate at least 1 or 2 of you.
    First, why would police officers NOT utilize their training tactics and techniques to disable the vehicle by simply shooting out the tires? Maybe call ahead for a road block...hmmm
    Second, since when is it appropriate to murder an individual in a vehicle before Identifying him...hmmm
    Third, shooting several rounds into a vehicle with another victim inside...hmmm...What if a child had been asleep in the back seat?
    Fourth, I do believe officers are directed NOT to use their firearms in populated neighborhoods UNLESS absolutely necessary... hmmm...the victim never fired a weapon nor was he labeled a violent offender...and obviously he WAS NOT using his vehicle as a weapon...he was trying to get away from these out of control, CRAZY cops! He grew up in Kootenai (KooKoo) County as I did and we all know how corrupt they are! Don't kid yourselves...please! We live in such a high crime region!
    Those of you who believe that everything you read is true...hmmmm...should take a moment to educate yourselves and look at the State Repository and read about the victims so-called record.
    It is filled with charges dating back to when he was in his teens with citations ranging from: riding his bike on a lawn...ooooohhhhhh...6 counts of smoking cigs as a minor...ooohhhhhhh...10 counts of failing to show car insurance...oooooohhhhhhh... was cited a couple of times for smoking pot...ooohhhh??? Hmmm...also eluding officers after receiving these citations (probably to tick them off for wasting his time) and the big one...ready...he didn't show up to court so they put a warrant out for his arrest...as I said earlier...not a terrorist here, a guy who made some wrong choices...maybe he should have become a Post Falls cop so he could legally get way with murder....hmmmm
    And those of you who think Scot Haug is OK...think again...he is the one hiring and training these gun slinging, trigger happy cowboys!
    Careful. you and your family might get stuck in a cross-fire someday...hmmmm

     
  • Buzzkill posted at 10:05 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    Buzzkill Posts: 41

    It appears there are number of ex-cops have spent a great deal of time trashing anyone, including the Troy Evans for questioning law enforcement on this thread. How sadly typical. Cops love to rush to the defense of other cops. They howl at those who can't possibly understand what cops go through because they put their lives on the line every day. Give us all a break. Law enforcement is a dangerous job. Every cop knows they could die on a routine call. Does that provide a built-in excuse for ignoring the truth? Or covering up a mistake by another officer. Time after time in law enforcement agencies across the country cops close ranks. They dig in. They attack. They refuse to admit when they're wrong.

    The video and the witness account given a very different perspective on the shooting. The video doesn't telll the whole story. It raises questions. It does seem to contradict the "official" account. Is it possible the officers in the shooting panicked and made a horrible mistake? I think it is.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:52 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    Joe Jr.: Actually, I agree with everything you say. You must have at least two cells! LOL

     
  • notapressfan posted at 9:52 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    notapressfan Posts: 11

    Come on, where did we find this witness? From the cast of My Cousin Vinnie? This was like reading a poorly rewritten version of The Night Before Christmas. Can't wait for the officers dash cam footage to show these men were correct in their actions. Chin up guys, the facts will out.

     
  • VandalJosh posted at 9:43 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    VandalJosh Posts: 106

    oh gee lexacon why should we know that. I don't own a .44 and sure wasn't issued one in the Army. Knowing the balistics of a .44 supermag is like knowing Charles Bronson's character's name in Death Wish.

    Again, until the actually investigation into this is complete I don't see how anyone can make claims one way or the other.

     
  • Joseph Jr posted at 9:38 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    Joseph Jr Posts: 512

    WOW

    Probably 1% of all subscribers to this paper, read the news and comments online. So, regardless of what happens legally, no one is really reading these comments.

    I do wonder though, how many LEO's and prosecutor's read the comments regarding court cases. You see, cowards like MYSELF...are AFRAID to comment using our names because it would not be politically correct, and yes there might just be repercussions.

    If "they" want, they can identify who we are and share that information. I have to wonder if there are any people in government especially who would want to seek out people whose opinions differ from their own. The news sources around the world, report what they want and how they want.

    Blogging (commenting) is in fact a way to share ideas and thoughts, and yes even bicker.

    Now for my "one-celled amoeba" comment: The writer's (home owner's) letter was so fraught with adverbs and adjectives, that I almost did not read "My Turn." Wasn't sure if it was a desperate attempt at flaunting an English Degree, or...? Just plain irritated at the number of times I the one-celled amoeba had to re-read some parts of some sentences. I hate it when a sentence begins with "That being said," or some other bologna.

    BUT...WOW was I blown away that there are homeowner's who install video camera's. I am thinkin' that to do something like that would be a little on the paranoid side, but this guy should go buy a lotter ticket. I'm glad he did have a camera which hopefully caught the actions of all involved. I recently viewed a video online of a local who has a video camera in their own car. That video captured an accident which he was not involved in. What's ironic, is that the experienced LEO who claimed experience in reconstruction was so far off it wasn't funny. Wrong people blamed until the video surfaced.

    Law enforcement officers need to remember, that taxpayers pay their wages and that their job is to truly serve and protect, not victimize and justify. That badge is only honorable if you do the right thing. Without a doubt (too many examples) where LEO's and others in government are covering up for one another and their cronies also. Once sucked in and you participate, you've sold your soul. Being a LEO is something we as citizens should admire, not fear. The fear is not out of guilt, but knowledge that all LEO's are not honest and "good" people.

    The cronyism and nepotism has to stop, even if it's penetrated the core.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:33 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    fiepie: If one of those criminals being pursued ran over Wherley or a member of his family, he would surely blame the cops for chasing him/her. The upside of course, in running over Wherley is that your car would get lubed and greased!

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:19 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    IChoseNID: Very well stated. My compliments.

     
  • Rogue Cop posted at 9:17 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    Rogue Cop Posts: 2272

    BTW skunkworks comment about Chief Haug is spot on. Not all police administrators is this area have Haug's integrity. Haug is a stand up guy and will do the right thing at the conclusion of the investigations. The citizens of Post Falls are fortunate to have a Chief with his credibility.

    But of course there are chouli and Wherley who don't need to wait till the investigations are finished because they already know all the facts.

    And BTW, stop all this senseless blather about shooting vehicles. We don't shoot vehicles. That talk is ridiculous on it's face. Whomever is talking about shooting at the motor with a .223 would be the first one to criticize if the rifle round ricocheted or passed through the motor and killed some poor suspect who was just scared like a rabbit. The poor thing. More "experts" who went to the Wherley School of Useless Knowledge.

     
  • fiepie posted at 9:08 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    J.W...maybe if you were a commie you wouldn't have to "fear for your freedom" and you sure wouldn't have the mentality to run even if your innocent?? That sounds like a third grade mentality, doesn't it?
    You rant and rave at how bad these fellows were and you determined how in error they were but as you stated, had you been around you woulda been a running, ain't it?
    I have often thought how it would be if one of these jerks, who run from a cop instead of stopping and acting as an adult, ran over someone such as yourself so you would get a first hand look at what the officer's were trying to prevent.
    Now knowing that your not mentally capable to act as an adult I can understand some of your rantings...

     
  • chouli posted at 9:08 pm on Fri, Mar 23, 2012.

    chouli Posts: 1264


    "Not till you stand in the shoes of a LEO should you shoot your mouth off. " said by qtrhrsy.

    au contraire.

    Of course we can give our opinions. what makes you think LE is so high and mighty that nothing can be questioned. here's some advice, question everything.

    ichosenid, plz re-read my post. you and rogue jump to conclusions that aren't accurate.
    g'nite all.