Decision time on discrimination - Coeur d'Alene Press: Local News

Decision time on discrimination

Cd'A City Council to consider adopting ordinance tonight

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Posted: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 12:00 am

COEUR d'ALENE - A pastor at one of the area's largest churches is asking his congregation to oppose an anti-discrimination ordinance the city of Coeur d'Alene will consider adopting tonight.

Real Life Ministries Pastor Jim Putman urged church members in a Facebook post to fight the proposed rule on grounds that would be "a pathway to promoting sin."

"Homosexuality is no worse then [sic] adultery or stealing but it is still sin," Putman wrote last week. If "someone told me I had to hire or rents [sic] space to a thief I would not like that - neither would I like this."

He wrote that people who support the ordinance believe that homosexuality is not a choice and people are created that way, but "there is no solid scientific evidence for that and the Bible clearly calls it sin."

At the end of the post, which received nearly 40 comments and 172 "likes," Putman called for his congregation to call the city and voice their concerns.

"We need to let them know they will be voted out if they go forward with this," Putman wrote. "Be respectful and loving but understand they are taking our community down a path that will continue to tell our kids homosexuality is a healthy and viable lifestyle - it is unhealthy and sinful - these people need Jesus and our love but not our approval."

Real Life Ministries is a non-denominational Evangelical Christian church based in Post Falls. Putman declined an interview request, but the church has grown to an average weekend attendance of more than 7,000 since its 1998 founding, according to its website. The church is also located in Coeur d'Alene, Silver Valley, Boise, Spokane, Spokane Valley and Newport, Wash.

Coeur d'Alene would join four other Idaho cities to adopt an anti-discrimination ordinance that would be aimed at protecting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in areas of employment and housing by preventing people from discriminating against them solely based on "sexual orientation, gender identity and expression."

Boise, Sandpoint, Ketchum and Moscow adopted similar ordinances already.

Coeur d'Alene could join them, but it's not a done deal.

Council members Mike Kennedy and Ron Edinger have said they support the ordinance, while council members Steve Adams and Dan Gookin don't. Councilwoman Deanna Goodlander said she's "conflicted" over the ordinance, while Councilman Woody McEvers hasn't weighed in.

Mayor Sandi Bloem, who only votes when a deciding seventh vote is needed, said she's in favor of it.

"At this point, I would be in favor of anything that would protect the right of the citizens," she said.

After the proposed ordinance went to the General Services Committee last week, discourse on the subject ran wild.

National Public Radio ran a story on the local issue, as did The Wall Street Journal, which published a story and two photos on May 29. The Coeur d'Alene Press online story had 152 comments, making it the most commented-upon story of the week.

"It's a historical moment," said Tony Stewart, Human Rights Task Force on Human Relations member, on the attention the ordinance has received.

Stewart brought the ordinance to the GSC last week, and is confident the city will adopt it after the GSC recommended it do so.

"I'm very, very pleased with the direction we're headed," he said.

But opponents of the ordinance say the new rule would grant special privileges to a small group and would infringe on religious freedom.

Churches and religious nonprofits would be exempt from the rule's umbrella. Also, the rule wouldn't apply to people renting out a room in their home or a duplex.

While that may be so, opponents said, individuals wouldn't be allowed to make decisions based on their religious beliefs. That steps on religious freedom, they said.

Goodlander on Monday said she has already received more than 100 letters from people who oppose it, more than she ever received on other controversial topics, like McEuen Park. She said she's concerned the ordinance language may grant special privileges, and would prefer the city slow down and look at all the other ordinances out there, not just adopt Boise's version now.

"People's right to do what they want should be a part of the picture," she said, adding, "We haven't had a chance to look at what other cities have adopted."

Adams and Gookin have said it isn't even a topic the city should consider. Gookin said it's a national issue and the city taking it up is akin to him scheduling North Korean relations as an agenda item. He said late last week he might make a motion for exactly that to drive home his point that the city shouldn't "meddle in national political issues."

The controversial topic comes at the same time that Kootenai County Sheriff Ben Wolfinger has said he's considering dropping the office's Boy Scout charter because the organization recently amended its rules to allow homosexual scouts.

Wolfinger, a former Coeur d'Alene City Councilman and Human Rights Education Institute board member, is an elder at Real Life Ministries, whose pastor is speaking out against the ordinance.

Wolfinger told The Press in previous interviews that the scouts' policy is in direct violation of Idaho law that prohibits sodomy. Wolfinger didn't return messages from The Press late last week or Monday.

He was on the HREI board between 2007 and 2009, according to HREI.

"I think (Real) Life is pulling the strings for him," said Tom Carter, HREI director, on Wolfinger's Boy Scout stance. "You're either for human rights or not, I'll put it that way. You can't be a halfway human rights supporter."

The proposed rule would make any violation a misdemeanor offense, punishable by up to $1,000 fine and up to six months in jail.

It's an ordinance needed to protect human rights, proponents say, because state and federal laws don't cover it. Now, landlords can reject a housing applicant based on his or her sexual preference without legal ramifications. Employers can fire employees for the same reason.

The City Council meeting is at 6 p.m. in the Community Room of the Coeur d'Alene Public Library.

Busy night

The City Council has other big items on its plate tonight.

It will consider whether it wants to take ownership of roughly 5 miles of East Coeur d'Alene Lake Drive, as well as whether Blackridge Properties LLC. should be allowed an easement to connect a tunnel to the Front Avenue parking structure tied to the McEuen Park project.

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99 comments:

  • Wolfykins posted at 7:50 am on Tue, Jan 20, 2015.

    Wolfykins Posts: 5

    All I am reading is that the definition of religious freedom to this group accually means: HATING other humans for being different than the group consensus. Seriously makes me sick. HATE is not something to be proud of. HATE is not something I condone or will ever teach my children. I teach my children to oppose anything that is marinated in negatives.


     
  • Irock79 posted at 10:37 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Irock79 Posts: 57

    *Or a sheriff for that matter.

     
  • Irock79 posted at 10:25 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Irock79 Posts: 57

    it sure doesn't take much to be a human rights activist, OraSure for that matter you can basically be a caveman with your head up your rear. I'm so moving out of Coeur d' Alene, the home of homophobia & Hicks. When I meet my future homosexual partner/lover, in a different, more tolerant state, I'll be sure not to tell them about this city where I've always feared being gay openly.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 9:58 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5407

    The Natural Order of Because You Say So?

    No, "Natural Order" is just the short form. The full name is the "Malevolent and Discriminatory Natural Order of Hateful Homophobes" --- but they usually just use "Natural Order", nowadays. That was all that would fit on the sign over the door, and after they realized how many people were accidentally wandering into the lodge meetings looking for organic foods and crystal deodorants, they decided to go ahead and make some money off it, for use in buying Homophobe Protest supplies (which usually consists of buying beer for Bob, the only member who reliably shows up for the protests --- and he's only there for the beer). Now, there's a small-but-thriving health food store just inside the main entrance to the lodge building, and they really capitalize on the name confusion.

    Check it out; they meet every other Thursday! (Just be sure not to accidentally refer to anything as "fabulous"...)

     
  • myhome posted at 9:39 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    myhome Posts: 71

    With all this chatter I decided to pull out my King James Version Bible and look up in the concordance the terms, homosexual then sex. Funny there is no verse to be directed too. Hmmm
    What I did find was...

    Isaiah Ch 57 verse 4: Against whom do ye sport yourselves? Against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? Are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood

    Isaiah Ch 55 verse 8: For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith The Lord.

    It seems people want to jump on a soapbox and wave a Bible for the sake of superiority over another and set claim to speaking for God himself.
    I prefer to live by the book titled, Everything I Needed To Know I Learned In Kindergarten.

     
  • Peter posted at 8:18 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Peter Posts: 679

    They don't, homosexuality is a choice, otherwise the species would have breed it out long ago.

    local res, was heterosexuality a choice to you? Did you have "learn" to like the opposite sex?

     
  • skunkworks posted at 8:18 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    skunkworks Posts: 252

    I have read many Versions (Thoroughly)...Including the Sea Scrolls...As well as Researching Embedded Codes within.. Its just a Book..The holy bible is not 100% Accurate..

    Nothing to Sell....Just telling you how it is...Research NDE's/ The Bible in its Entirety/Even the scriptures that have been left out...Then come talk your talk...

     
  • The Simple Truth posted at 7:22 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    The Simple Truth Posts: 563

    Jim is a cult leader.

     
  • Natural Liberal posted at 7:10 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Natural Liberal Posts: 44

    "intolerance, Bigotry"

    Boo words used at witch trials. The political correctness cult works so hard to exorcize that sky good from their little minds.

    What shall we do, throw water on them? ".. Im melting.. Im melting!" "goodbye cruel word."

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 7:01 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "How does choice and evolution fit together?"

    The correct answer is that reasonable people tend to support in choice and evolution.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 6:56 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "Homosexuality is a violation of the Natural Order"

    The Natural Order of Because You Say So?

    For those of us who do not buy into the Invisible Leader shtick, there is no such thing as a Natural Order. Instead, there is a Hierarchy of Human Needs and being loved is one of those needs. We all know heterosexuals who remain in relationships where they don't feel loved. That I believe to be a far bigger violation of all things in general, much more than loving somebody of the same sex could ever be.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 6:47 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Curious, how times you had sex "for breeding purposes only"

     
  • Humanist posted at 6:38 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    OH..... that clears it up. The bible is now all of American society's rule book.

     
  • InnocentBystander posted at 6:27 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    InnocentBystander Posts: 14

    Nope, his real argument is that Sodomy is not illegal in Idaho or anywhere else in America due to a Supreme Court case. The Bible has absolutely no bearing on American laws. There's this little thing called "freedom of religion" that you should probably look into. Also, that whole "separation of church and state" thing is kind of a big deal. The American Constitution was written to ensure that your religion does not infringe on my rights as a citizen.
    I mean, what if we started forcing every Biblical law onto our citizens. Most of us, including Christians, would have been stoned to death the first time we ever played football or had sex in high school or even planted two different crops side-by-side. All of those are also condemned by the bible, but you don't see Christians calling to ban football or polyester and cotton blended clothes.

     
  • Humanist posted at 6:21 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    This isn't rocket science to figure out. There are more than enough heterosexual human beings procreating to keep the population steady, actually growing, even with the number of homosexual human beings who aren't having babies.

     
  • local res posted at 6:11 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Wanderson which of the items you mentioned are against a person's faith. None, However, if the law passes It violates my faith to partake of your "choice".

     
  • local res posted at 6:08 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Skunkworks have you ever read the bible? Cause what your selling is not in the book!

     
  • local res posted at 5:57 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Mahiun you can argue its not law all you want, however the bible still calls it sin. It's not about the people who read the book or follow the rules in the book. Your real argument is the author of the law and the bible.

     
  • local res posted at 5:54 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Ray Jane feel free to move!

     
  • local res posted at 5:53 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    How does choice and evolution fit together? They don't, homosexuality is a choice, otherwise the species would have breed it out long ago. You remember from school "Survival of the fittest" passes on the genes.

     
  • local res posted at 5:48 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    HMMM if you cant find fault with his message just attack the writer.. Real Class on Your Part.

     
  • livinlarge posted at 5:48 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    livinlarge Posts: 29

    What is keeping you here?

     
  • Rationale posted at 5:41 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Rationale Posts: 1976

    acid,

    Nature hardwires humans to continue the species. Gee, brainiac, how does that work? Too difficult to understand?

    It IS a choice!

     
  • RayJane posted at 5:37 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    RayJane Posts: 5

    I believe that his "church" had better start paying taxes if they are going to continue to interfere in politics and government.

     
  • RayJane posted at 5:36 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    RayJane Posts: 5

    Very excellent.

     
  • RayJane posted at 5:35 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    RayJane Posts: 5

    Tulkas, homosexuality is in no way a "violation of the Natural Order". Nearly all species of animals on Earth include homosexual individuals. There are many good reasons for this including: More adults to care for the young without being burdened by their own young and limited population growth while securing more food for the whole community.

    As someone has previously stated-sodomy is NOT illegal anywhere in the USA and as even another has stated, how would you prosecute heterosexuals who practice it, because a howl lot of them do.

    As for Ben Wolfinger, his religious views have NOTHING to do with the laws of the USA and his job is to enforce our SECULAR government laws. He should be ashamed of himself.

    I am SO ashamed to say I am a fifth generation Idahoan. This is NOT a theocracy and I am sick of people in Idaho acting like it is.

     
  • Good_Ole_Mitt_Romney posted at 4:59 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Good_Ole_Mitt_Romney Posts: 169

    Sorry Honey, BUT it is not illegal. Please do some research before you declare your ignorance. There is so much misinformation out there, quit watching FOX news .

     
  • Tulkas posted at 4:29 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Tulkas Posts: 25

    If this policy is passed, it will just lead to more discrimination against those understand natural law, whole and organic, and want to uphold it and morality.

    Homosexuality is a violation of the Natural Order.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 4:16 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5407

    Sodomy is illegal in Idaho...
    No, it's not. It's not illegal in any state in the union, and hasn't been since the 2003 Supreme Court decision in Lawrence v. Texas struck any and all state-level sodomy laws. It may still be on the books, but so what?! It is unconstitutional (the Supreme Court itself has said so), and unenforceable. Being "on the books" make it about as relevant as a law specifying a fine for helping an escaped slave --- it's just not relevant or applicable any longer!

     
  • CyndieB57 posted at 4:06 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    CyndieB57 Posts: 1

    Tom Carter said that he thinks Ben Wolfinger is having his strings pulled by Real Life Ministries. He is so wrong. Sodomy is illegal in Idaho, and I'm sure the Sheriff reads his bible. All of it! Jim Putman doesn't force his views on anyone. But he does teach the word of God which states that certain actions are sin. Sin separates us from our Heavenly Father and his will. Personally I will stand with the ones that stand with Father God! Some will not understand and that's their right. But as believer's we must speak out against something that may put our right to worship God in every area of our lives in jeopardy.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 3:15 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Decision time on discrimination

    To discriminate, or not to discriminate, that is the question
    Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
    The Slings and Arrows of outrageous intolerance
    Or to pass an ordinance against a Sea of Bigotry,
    And by passing, end it: to die, to sleep
    No more; and by a vote, to say we end

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 2:24 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "... if my boss were gay and saw me kiss my girlfriend it'd be ok to fire me because I'm hetero?"

    Your boss probably fired you because you should have been working instead of kissing your friend.

     
  • The Golden Mean posted at 2:22 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    The Golden Mean Posts: 4213

    Re: "A pastor at one of the area's largest churches is asking his congregation to oppose an anti-discrimination ordinance"

    Christian judgement is the pits.

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 1:45 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    OK, you got me. Real Life Ministries are nowhere in or even near the Bible.

     
  • IdahoMan posted at 1:43 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    IdahoMan Posts: 100

    "So I guess if my boss were gay and saw me kiss my
    girlfriend it'd be ok to fire me because I'm hetero?"

    Is it his property? Does he own the business? Then, yes. Absolutely it's his right.

    "Holy smokes folks, this is pretty simple to me and not
    really even worthy of discussion."

    Yes, the ordinance is unconstitutional and violates a person's rights.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 1:37 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2744

    Context...It's what you people always use to validate your interpretation of verse. Fact is....well, never mind. You can't deal with fact.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 1:03 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5407

    So I guess if my boss were gay and saw me kiss my girlfriend it'd be ok to fire me because I'm hetero?<?i>
    Right now, in Idaho? Yes, it would be perfectly legal, and there would be absolutely nothing you could do about it.

     
  • 986crazy posted at 12:53 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    986crazy Posts: 432

    So I guess if my boss were gay and saw me kiss my girlfriend it'd be ok to fire me because I'm hetero? Why should he even care? But, since he does, he shouldn't be allowed to. Holy smokes folks, this is pretty simple to me and not really even worthy of discussion. It should pass unanimously.

     
  • wanderson posted at 12:19 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    wanderson Posts: 40

    Ok you folks listen up. It also includes but not limited to Race, Creed, Color, Sex (Male or Female), and Age. I am not going to serve you because you are German, Arian White Female over 65. This is already in the Fair Housing Act. Fair Credit Reporting act. In addition, Fair Credit Act. The only one you hear about is the homosexuals that are denied what about the rest.

     
  • skunkworks posted at 12:04 pm on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    skunkworks Posts: 252

    I can tell you from experience(NDE) that GOD does not judge you when entering a Life's Review...It's You that Judges Yourself..You will experience every Emotion you have inflicted onto others (such as)..
    Happiness/Sadness,Pain/Pleasure..

    I am Positive that if someone is Homosexual by "Choice or by Birth" and Truly Loved their partner the Vibrations of their "Sole" will be unaffected..Love is the Key to Heaven..You will feel it in the Light...

    Consider our Bible Versions a Diamond in the Rough..It;s True brilliance will Radiate when you obtain "Universal Knowledge"...

    I Myself Don't like people that are Gay..It's my choice, my Demon...

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 11:54 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 667

    Actually DCIDAHO if you put time and effort into the Bible, there isn't much room for interpretation. Unfortunately people are lazy.

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 11:53 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 667

    Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in he l l.


    DCIDAHO....context....it's what you people always miss.

    Jesus was saying don't do what you do so people think you are holy...do what you do in sincerity. If you give to the poor don't brag about it or bring attention to it.

     
  • Humanist posted at 11:52 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    But now JesusIsTheLight (formerly NicotineGun) will say that Jesus said that the Old Testament must be revered so that provides blanket justification for all things in the OT.

     
  • IdahoMan posted at 11:51 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    IdahoMan Posts: 100

    Will: "This is not entirely a 'homosexual' issue. I would be equally as uncomfortable being forced to rent to an unmarried cohabitating heterosexual couple."

    Agreed.

    The state has business telling a citizen he/she must accommodate another person. "Anti-Discrimination" laws are wrong and unconstitutional. They need to go.

    Mark well who votes in favor of this. They need to be voted out.

     
  • Humanist posted at 11:46 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    Quote will: "When I decided that an immoral lifestyle was not on my list of options. "

    But was your feeling of being attracted to men a "choice" that you made? No. BUT, you made a choice to not act on that feeling. So, people are born being attracted to men, women or both but can make it a choice to live that way or not.

    If you want to live that way, then fine, that is your individual choice. But stop trying to get people to live the way you want them to!

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 11:38 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2744

    Biblically, there are as many interpretations as grains of sand on a beach. So, whose are we to follow? Why yours, right?
    Jesus said exactly nothing regarding homosexuality. This is why this gobbledygook should not be in government.
    "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room (or closet.) and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV).

     
  • cdanative33 posted at 11:27 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    cdanative33 Posts: 382

    A quick Google search on Dr. Kinsey yielded some interesting results. I'm surprised that you, Deniles, of all people are using his research to bolster your assertions about human sexuality. Interesting, also, that the idea of a sexuality continuum implies that for some their sexuality isn't a choice, but how they are designed...I would assume about 2 percent of the population, which is about the same percentage of people in cultures around the globe and throughout time that have been homosexual.

    If you are going to talk about what goes on in public schools, you really should have some knowledge about what actually goes on in it. There is no class in the public school system at any grade that advocates that children be gay or bisexual...it's simply not true. There is no class that promotes heterosexuality either...just because Rush and Glenn say it's so doesn't mean it is.

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 11:20 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 667

    both Jim and Paul always speak of love...never hatred. You are the one showing hatred. Both men would offer you help if you needed it. Both men would offer help to anyone. Love doesn't mean letting you do what you want. Love is having the courage to tell you you are doing wrong.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 11:19 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5407

    Human rights only apply to humans. And I suspect that Wolfinger may be one of the many people in the area who (whether or not they'll actually admit it) do not consider GLBT persons to be fully human....

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 11:18 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 667

    Biblically, we are to go forth and make disciples of ALL the nations spreading the gospel put forth by Jesus Christ. That is in the Bible. If you believe in the Bible you do what the Bible tells you to do, yes? What are these men doing wrong by spreading the word of God? THEY are putting God first and government second. THAT is exactly what we are to do. If you are putting the Constitution before the Word of God...you are failing. You are luke warm and will be chewed up and spit out as told by Jesus Christ.

    Beloved you aren't doing anyone any favors if you are a Christian, but trying to be a helping hand to the Sodmite and Lesbian community in pushing their agenda. You might as well go give money to a drug addict or whiskey to the alcoholic.

     
  • Mahiun posted at 11:15 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 5407

    There seems to be a great deal of confusion and misunderstanding around what this law would and would not do, what it's for, and how it would work. Having lived in several locations that had similar laws in place, perhaps I can shed some light....

    Scenario A
    Jeff has been working at the Acme Company for about 4 months. It's not the greatest job or the greatest company in the world, but it's a job and Jeff's okay with it until he can finish his degree and look for a better job with more responsibility. Things have been a little tense with Jeff's boss, and Jeff thinks his boss may wonder why Jeff never speaks of a girlfriend, and has no pictures on his desk. But, Jeff is model employee in every other way: clean, friendly, comes in on time, puts in a full day's worth of good work. Today, however, things are about to change...

    Today, it's cold outside and Jeff is coming in early.His partner (whom Jeff has never discussed at work) is driving him to work, instead of Jeff walking, as he usually does. As Jeff is getting out of the car in the parking lot, his partner gets out too, and gives Jeff a hug and a quick closed-mouth kiss goodbye. Jeff is met inside the building by his boss who has also arrived early, and is told, "I saw what you just did in the parking lot, you f*****! I've had my suspicions, and now I know. You have 15 minutes to clear your desk and get out!"

    Jeff sues for wrongful termination on the basis of sexual orientation discrimination.

    Who wins?
    Tough call.... It could go either way, because of the lack of evidence and witnesses; it comes down to a "He said/He said" situation. And this case, as with all such cases, would come down to who has more evidence and can build a better, more believable case. This case would most likely come to some kind of settlement agreement, because Jeff can't absolutely prove that the conversation took place (there were no witnesses), but his boss also can't build a case to show that Jeff was fired for being a terrible employee --- he wasn't!

    What could change the outcome?
    If the boss were to testify that, "Yes, I fired him for being gay --- I don't want that kind anywhere near my employees or my customers!", then the case would be pretty cut-and-dried, and Jeff would win. Or if Jeff were to say, "Well yes, Mr. Boss is correct: I was late on three occasions," then Mr. Boss would almost certainly win the case, even if his real reason for firing Jeff was the kiss in the parking lot.

    Take-away point:
    It all comes down to evidence and credibility. Nobody wins a lawsuit just because they file one --- even if they're right!

    Scenario B
    Miranda is just out of school, with an Associates Degree from a local community college. She's lucky: she found a job as a barista at a local coffee shop, and quickly worked her way up to a manager position. She's making decent, if not spectacular, money and would like to move into a little nicer place where she'd have room to entertain friends now and then. She's found exactly the right place: cute, with a big bright window in the main room, and a big enough bedroom to hold her new bed. But.....it's a little bit of a stretch on her pay. She could cut back on a few other things, maybe, but it would still be tight.

    The landlord reviews Miranda's application and tells her that he's very sorry, but he's not going to be able to rent to her, as he does require that income be at least 3 times the rent, and Miranda's income is only 2.5 times the rent. Miranda briefly considers whether to argue or contest this, since she is in fact lesbian, but decides instead to just keep looking.

    Who wins?
    Nobody. There is no lawsuit, because there is no basis for a lawsuit. And to her credit, Miranda was smart enough to realize this.

    What could change this outcome?
    Probably nothing --- and nothing needs to. The landlord is well within his legal rights to require a certain Rent-to-Income Ration, and Miranda doesn't qualify. But if she gets another raise, that could change, and Miranda can always reapply when the place next becomes available.

    Take-away point:
    There is nothing in this ordinance that would prevent landlords from turning away unqualified renters, even if that renter is gay or lesbian.

    Scenario C
    Adam and Kevin got married in Vancouver, about a year and a half ago. Kevin just got a consulting job at a marketing firm in Coeur d'Alene, and Adam works from home as a software graphic designer. So even though they're planning on returning to Vancouver when Kevin's job is over, it makes more sense to live in Cd'A during that time, instead of having Kevin try to commute. They've found a great 1-bedroom place with a small den that will make for the ideal home office setup for Adam, and it's close to Kevin's job. On their combined incomes, it's very comfortably affordable. But when they go to the rental office to turn in their application, the rental agent tells them, "No, we can't rent to you. Two men, two bedrooms. Period. We can only allow married couples to share a bedroom." When they protest that they are in fact married, they're told, "No. We don't consider that a marriage, and we don't really care whether or not British Columbia does. If you want to live that way, go home." The administrative assistant at the next desk overhears the entire conversation.

    Next day, Kevin mentions the incident to a co-worker, and within 30 minutes, is called into his manager's office and told that his services are no longer required. No specific reason is offered.

    Adam and Kevin decide to sue both the landlord and Kevin's employer.

    Who wins?
    Against the landlord, Adam and Kevin stand a very good chance of winning their case, because they have both evidence (their marriage certificate) and a witness (the admin assistant who overheard the conversation). Because the rental office is in the business of renting to the general public, they would be expected to know that the law requires that they serve the entire public, including GLBT. Neither ignorance of the law nor disagreement with it would constitute a valid defense; if the business does not choose to conform to the law, it has the option of going into another line of business where it would not need to serve the general public. Its decision to rent to the general public constitutes tacit (unspoken, silent, implied) consent to the conditions attached.

    Kevin's case against the employer is a little murkier, but he could probably prevail. It would once again come down to evidence and credibility. The fact that Kevin was let go only half an hour after telling a co-worker about the rental incident creates strong circumstantial evidence against the employer, but it's not a slam-dunk.

    What could change this outcome?
    If Kevin's boss had offered him a reason, the entire outcome could change dramatically. For example, if the boss had said, "I just heard about the incident with the rental, and I agree completely with the rental agent's position. I'm afraid we won't be able to use you," then that, combined with the co-worker combination, would tilt things dramatically against the employer. On the other hand, if the employer had said, "Kevin, I'm so sorry about what happened to you, but I'm afraid I have more bad news. We lost the contract for the project you were to be working on, and I'm going to have to lay off all of the team members, including yourself. I am so sorry...." then it would be chalked up as a really unfortunate coincidence, and Adam and Kevin would go home to Vancouver, probably wanting nothing whatsoever to do with Coeur d'Alene, Idaho ever again.

    Take-away point:
    Even if it happens right after an incident involving sexual orientation, that doesn't automatically mean that it happened because of an incident involving sexual orientation. It's not a slam-dunk, by any means.

    Scenario D
    Barb and Trish, who live in Coeur d'Alene, just got married in Spokane. They threw a gigantic party at their apartment, and.....well......the party got a little out of hand. Now, there's a broken window, the deck railing is gone, and there's a stain on the carpet that nobody can identify but it smells horrible. The landlord has started eviction proceedings for vandalism and lease violation.

    Barb and Trish are suing.

    Who wins?
    The landlord, hands down --- assuming that Barb and Trish can even find an attorney foolish enough to take this case in the first place!

    What could change this outcome?
    Nothing. Either Barb and Trish were totally irresponsible &*($%#'s themselves, or they allowed their guests to be totally irresponsible &*($%#'s. Either way, it's a perfectly clear, cut-and-dried violation of the lease. They're outta here!

    Take-away point:
    Sexual orientation discrimination is not a valid defense against a lease violation.

    Scenario E
    Mark has been looking for an apartment for what seems like forever, and finally found one he can afford --- renting from the same guys he works for, at a party-supplies store. But as he's handing in the application, he mentions having his girlfriend help him pack and move in. The application is immediately returned to him, and one of the other guys tell him, "Oh, I wish we'd known this earlier! I just don't think you'd be comfortable in this place --- or in the store. Most of our clientele is gay, and you could end up making them uncomfortable, even if you didn't mean to. And all of the apartment complex is gay; you just wouldn't fit in. Sorry things didn't work out...."

    Mark sues.

    Who wins?
    Mark. Even without a whole lot of hard evidence in the form of documentation, there is likely enough circumstantial evidence here (his application was denied as soon as he mentioned his girlfriend, it's easily established that the store clientele is indeed mostly gay, and the apartment complex is entirely gay --- and this backs up Mark's story) for Mark to prevail.

    What could change this outcome?
    Not much, at this point. About the only change in outcome would be if the other guys backed down and rehired Mark, letting him also move into the apartment --- assuming he'd even still want to --- and Mark chose to drop the suit. Otherwise, not much could change this....

    Take-away point:
    This is not a "pro-gay" ordinance. Anti-discrimination ordinances protect all people, not just religious, ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities.

     
  • DCIDAHO posted at 11:09 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2744

    "Fornication typically refers to consensual sexual intercourse between two people not married to each other.[1]" Wikipedia.....
    YAY for fornication!!!

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 11:06 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 667

    Show me Biblically how your statement is correct, Randy. Show me Biblically. Back it up with Scripture.

     
  • JesusIsTheLight posted at 11:06 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    JesusIsTheLight Posts: 667

    Romans 1: 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

     
  • will-- posted at 10:44 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1088

    From an earlier post:

    " When did you choose to be straight?"

    When I decided that an immoral lifestyle was not on my list of options. Likewise, I have chosen not to partake in adultery or fornication either.

    This is not entirely a 'homosexual' issue. I would be equally as uncomfortable being forced to rent to an unmarried cohabitating heterosexual couple.

     
  • hayden_guy posted at 10:31 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    hayden_guy Posts: 400

    will-- are you saying that you made a choice to be straight (I am making an assumption here). Or is that just the way you are- or in other words that being straight is genetic?

     
  • Ziggy posted at 10:31 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Ziggy Posts: 1229

    This is a reason why it should pass. As you can see, there are many in this community, including the pastor who would fire someone for being gay or for "thinking' someone were gay.
    By the way, thinking that being gay or straight is a choice has been disproved years ago. Did you wake up one day and say, "gee I am going to be straight." I don't think so.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 10:20 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    The continuum I refer to was initially defined by the respected sex researcher Dr. Alfred Kinsey. It is commonly referred to as 'the Kinsey scale of sexuality'. It is not bunk but well researched and debated science.

    The California law I referred exists to this day and the Psychological professionals are contesting its clinical validity in the court.

    Rather than call names discuss the issues. Would the LBGT advocate educating our youngsters in public school that they should not presume heterosexuality as normal?

     
  • Donna D posted at 10:13 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Donna D Posts: 2

    the "pastor" is doing nothing but stir up hate, and lying (yes, I called him a liar!) about the whole premise of his 'beliefs'. I wonder if he would be surprised to know that there are already homosexuals working as doctors, nurses and health care and hospice workers right here in CdA !! I wonder if he remembers that Jesus himself washed the feet of a prostitute, knowing that all are worthy of love and acceptance. It is NOT up to us take specific passages out of the bible and 'fine-tune' them to support our own personal agenda and beliefs. That's not the way it works. Why not instead focus on the true meaning of bible which is forgiveness, understanding and love? If you are going to 'talk' as if you are a Christian, then act like one! Did you know that those rights you are trying to deny are ALREADY given under the Constitution???? Idaho is better than bigotry, and I thought those days were behind us. . but obviously ignorance, hatred and intolerance are alive and well and breeding in your little enclave. Shame on you. .

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 10:07 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    Jesus is revoking the charter of Real Life Ministries.

    I am saddened that someone who sat on the board of HREI (Wolfinger) learned so little about human rights.

     
  • Humanist posted at 10:07 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    Is the fact that you're attracted to men a "choice" that you made?

     
  • will-- posted at 10:03 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1088

    "being gay is genetic just as much as blond hair or blue eyes."

    Any data to support that or should we just take your word for it?

     
  • will-- posted at 9:44 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1088

    "I’m free to hang glide, ride wheelies on my motorcycle or ski down big mountains."

    You are indeed free to do those things, at your own risk.

    The problem with this ordinance is that it forces another individual to furnish you with the hang glider, motorcycle or ski's.

     
  • Miketeague posted at 9:42 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Miketeague Posts: 2389

    Contrary to the phony studies the so called local pastors quote to promote their agenda to get into everyone’s bedrooms, being gay is genetic just as much as blond hair or blue eyes. It’s an absolute shame that in this day and age anti discrimination laws of any kind are needed, but they are. This law and others like it do not condone or promote any type of behavior; they just stop humans from being discriminated against because they might be different.
    Cog777 and Deniles you guys are so far out in right field it's unbelievable. Your arguments have been used since the beginning of time against everything and everyone to try and stop any social advancement and to prevent anyone other than your mirror images from gaining equality.
    As far as a "gay agenda" if people mean a small segment of our society wishing to live without fear of retaliation then yes, other wise there is no agenda. Also being gay is no more of a lifestyle than being white or black, being a bigot is a lifestyle.

     
  • Humanist posted at 9:33 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    The ordinance specifically says " Any person who falsely reports a violation of this chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor. "

     
  • will-- posted at 9:32 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1088

    Your promoting the specious argument that there is a 'homosexual' gene.

    It is a fact that genetic differences exist between races. No such genetic differences exists for sexual preference, that's why it's referred to as a "preference".

     
  • Jason Abbott posted at 9:31 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Jason Abbott Posts: 915

    Competent employers know to document employee performance.

     
  • Jason Abbott posted at 9:28 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Jason Abbott Posts: 915

    “Cultures since the beginning of time” have believed the world is flat, practiced female circumcision and other false or abhorrent things. I am glad we’re not subject to the same primitive pressures and perspectives they were.

    Biblical sanctions fall into the same primitive category with various passages praising the razing of communities and the slaughter of women and children in despicable terms, and engaging in incoherent hyperbole..

    Ancient cultures may have gloried in such conquests, believing in their divine right, but we do not have to behave that way today.

     
  • Humanist posted at 9:22 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    Quote will: "When I decided that an immoral lifestyle was not on my list of options. "

    That is quite interesting that you thought you might be gay at some point. It must be incredibly difficult to deny yourself who you really because you feel you must follow biblical morality.

     
  • COG777 posted at 9:21 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    COG777 Posts: 340

    Ziggy,

    What if the worker was to be terminated because of his work ethic but now since he wore a pink shirt he can scream discrimination and sue his employer and Tony Stewart would help him out more than likely.

    This can happen very easily and has in other places. This is one reason why this must not pass!

     
  • Jason Abbott posted at 9:12 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Jason Abbott Posts: 915

    Even if same-sex attraction entails personal health risks that has never in America been a reason to abrogate liberty. I’m free to hang glide, ride wheelies on my motorcycle or ski down big mountains. People should be at liberty to take risks.

    As for “taking down the country,” I’m not aware of that objective or studies correlating traditional family units with social order.

     
  • Ziggy posted at 9:03 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Ziggy Posts: 1229

    This could happen to anyone: Say your wife or girlfriend gives you a pink shirt and you are a straight guy. You don't particularly care for it but pink is ok, lots of straight guys wear pink. However, your employer has made up his or her mind that only a gay guy would wear a pink shirt. Your employer fires you. You agrue, plead for your job but in your employer's mind, you are gay. Period.
    That's why this ordinance is so necessary. Gay people and straight people are discriminated against all the time for what some bigot "thinks" they are doing.
    Please pass this ordinance. If any city needs it, it's CdA.

     
  • Bob Loblaw posted at 8:53 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Bob Loblaw Posts: 410

    The point that most here are missing is this: you can legislate tolerance, but you cannot legislate acceptance.

    Political "correctness", besides being an oxymoron, is nothing more or less than censorship. Our schools are teaching kids WHAT to think; not HOW to think. I prefer to think for myself, thank you very much.

    We have the Civil Rights Act of 1968 and subsequent additions. We don't need to have our local government piggy-back more regulations onto that. It's nothing more than a symbolic feel-good exercise in political posturing. Bread and circus without the bread.

     
  • Humanist posted at 8:49 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    @concernedcitizen: There is a difference between SEX (it's actually not called sex, it's called gender) and sexual ORIENTATION.

     
  • Humanist posted at 8:48 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Humanist Posts: 3166

    Your [sic] confusing being gay with a lifestyle choice.

     
  • will-- posted at 8:37 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1088

    " When did you choose to be straight?"

    When I decided that an immoral lifestyle was not on my list of options. Likewise, I have chosen not to partake in adultery or fornication either.

    This is not entirely a 'homosexual' issue. I would be equally as uncomfortable being forced to rent to an unmarried cohabitating heterosexual couple.

     
  • COG777 posted at 8:16 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    COG777 Posts: 340

    Deniles there are those that believe that after eight it is too late!

     
  • COG777 posted at 8:07 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    COG777 Posts: 340

    Peter,
    So what do you have to say about BI activity? In So Cal high schools being Bi was the in thing. What about AIDS and the spread of that? What about the life expectancy of that lifestyle? What better way is there to take a country down from the inside but to erase the traditional family unit.

     
  • DeNiles posted at 8:04 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    DeNiles Posts: 2450

    Are humans either 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual? Is it distinct that a person is AC or DC? That is open to conjecture.

    A sexual continuum has been previously defined. This says that sexuality is indistinct, meaning that a persons sexual preferences can vary by degrees. The sex continuum theory says that humans can be strongly hetero or homosexual, or a little of each.

    How does a person a 'little' homosexual become entirely homosexual instead of preferentially heterosexual? One way is to convey to them a sense of ease whereby homosexuality is perfectly normal and not to be eschewed. Then reenforce this 'normalcy' concept with positive homosexual role models, mentors and guidance. In other words you educate kids with any such inclination to explore the possibility and offer to them encouragement to blossom any potential. You intentionally avoid promoting heterosexuality as the preferred sexual orientation.

    Now envision a required class in public Jr. High School, 10 years from now, entitled - Introduction to Human Sexuality. In this class the students learn about human sexuality and rather than being encouraged to develop their heterosexual tendencies they are now encouraged to blossom ANY form of relationship which renders to them sexual pleasure. It is all good, if it feels good. There is no need to follow family traditions or morality. They are old school and this is the way of the future.

    The LBGT agenda under way today is foundational. In many states and cities these foundations are further along and additional layers of the foundation are already being laid. In California it is illegal for a parent to take their own child for psychological treatment to examine and treat their sexuality. If a parent of a child in California suspects their child is leaning towards homosexuality it is illegal for them to seek professional treatment geared to reinforce heterosexual behavior.

    Get away from the 'inside the forest' arguments and see the larger picture that is most certainly down the road. LBGT organizations will not readily come out and define their long term goals. The strategy is to use wedge issues to encroach upon and dismantle cultural mores and traditions. Religions of all types present the largest impediment because they are all based in strong morality and steeped in heterosexual traditions and rites. These are the enemies of the LBGT and as is clearly evidenced they are in open war with religion, any religion.

    How does a community advance? How does society advance? How do they regress? How do they deteriorate?

     
  • fiepie posted at 7:59 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 3008

    concernedcitizen...it wasn't too many years ago that a landlord could decide how many children you could have in their rental. I knew a couple who were denied a rental because they had six children. The couple told the landlord they would knock the ones the landlord didn't allow in the head, if he would kinly point out the ones he didn't want.
    When offering a rental one cannot use your "sex", male or female, in deciding not to rent to one. You can decide not to rent to a felon, homosexual, and certain others.
    I find it amazing that when an applicant applies for housing anyone would be curious about their sexual preference. We could include where they shop, color of their hair, their cloths.
    Are these really concerns of ours.
    Would you be promoting gay rights by renting to gays? If you excluded others, yes, then one would be promoting.
    But the question comes back to is it anyones business what your sexual preference is?

     
  • Peter posted at 7:57 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Peter Posts: 679

    Will- gays don't "choose" to be gay. When did you choose to be straight? BTW, I am half Asian and well aware of the prejudices of this area.

     
  • KeepinItReal posted at 7:57 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    KeepinItReal Posts: 112

    It appears my passionate comment didnt make it past the moderator. Makes me wonder which adjective I used offended and/or described him?

     
  • COG777 posted at 7:49 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    COG777 Posts: 340

    I really wish the police would stop the activity at Ramsey Park restrooms and Tubs Hill by the fire sign. I appreciate the fact that Jim Putman spoke out! Good for you Jim. I sick of bullies like Tony Stewart telling people what they should think believe and who we must feel comfortable with. De-fund this organization. NO MORE taxpayer dollars!!!!

     
  • will-- posted at 7:48 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1088

    Well stated.

    And it needs to get to the Supreme Court before 0bama can make any more hard left appointments.

     
  • will-- posted at 7:43 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    will-- Posts: 1088

    "That's like saying I have no problem with Asians living in Idaho as long as they stop acting like "Asians"."

    Your confusing ethnicity with a lifestyle choice.

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 7:40 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    "race, color, religious creed, ancestry, age, sex, national origin, and/or disability"

    acid, please tell me where it says sexual gender. The word sex can have multiple meanings here therefore no need for more laws.

    This is nothing more than the city of CdA trying to tap into the $70 billion dollar a year GLBT tourist industry. They could care less about any of the taxpaying citizens. It's all about the bucks. GREED!

     
  • Peter posted at 7:34 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Peter Posts: 679

    I have no problem with a gay man living in Idaho as long as he stops practicing gay/ homosexual behavior.

    That's like saying I have no problem with Asians living in Idaho as long as they stop acting like "Asians". Besides your bible quotes are nice but are irrelevant to this conservation. The bible is not the governing document of this country. Treat them as equals and stop obsessing with people do behind closed doors.

    Once the ordinance is passed life will go on....

     
  • Flash Gordon posted at 7:28 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Flash Gordon Posts: 1484

    Jim Putman is a much better businessman than a pastor. Apparently he isn't as attentive to the Gospels as he should be, understandable .....he needs to rediscover his vocation or calling and become "born again":)

     
  • efromm posted at 7:25 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    efromm Posts: 689

    "I have no problem with a gay man living in Idaho as long as he stops practicing gay/homosexual behavior."

    Oh Chris this is so funny. For real? This has to be a joke right?

     
  • Jill Heine posted at 7:18 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Jill Heine Posts: 408

    Homosexuality that involves in [sic] cheating? Try checking your own grammar.

    What does being gay have to do with being a thief? Everything! The gay person is stealing the right of a straight baker not to make a gay cake. Same goes for a straight pastor, photographer, florist, etc. Express your right to be all you can be, but don't impose your will upon others. Make your own cake!

     
  • Insider posted at 7:14 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Insider Posts: 360

    I wonder if the good pastor realizes that homosexuality has been around as long as mankind, even in the animal kingdom. But alas, his good book tells him otherwise so it must be right. I don't care what anyone does behind closed doors, I have family that is gay and support their life choices. I do stop to pause to consider any special treatment to a particular group though, consideration and time to understand the issue is important. But the religious super christians and their thumping of the bible will only have an adverse effect on the outcome, because of their zealotry, those sitting on the fence will opt for the lighter side, rather than the fire and brimstone trickery.

     
  • acid posted at 7:06 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    acid Posts: 45

    we have laws protecting everyone based on sex, male /female, not sexual orientation. I would really like to hear from all of you who belive that it is a choice, WHEN DID YOU CHOOSE TO BE STRAIT! Because I can tell you when I made the decision to be strait to fit in to my family. I made it till I was 40 before I was ready to end my life than continue to live a lie. So please, untill you can identify the moment that you decided to be strait, STOP SAYING IT'S A CHOICE!

     
  • ConservativeChris posted at 7:01 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    ConservativeChris Posts: 1

    Peter: Your whole argument is based on a major flaw: homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality. They're note equal. Cultures since the beginning of time have always valued relations between a man and a woman and seen homosexuality as a problem someone was engaging in. Most importantly, the Bible CLEARLY marks a difference. Genesis 2:21-24 supports real relationships. Nowhere in the Bible are gay relationships given the okay. 1 Corinthians 6:9, Revalation 22:14-15, Leviticus 18:22 and countless other passages condemn the practice. If you can find evidence that supports your side, I'd like to see it. Until then, there is a fine line clearly drawn by the Bible.
    IdahoMan: I agree that we want Coeur d' Alene to stay a great city. Yet bringing the gay culture into our city will make thighs worse. We don't need to condemn the people, for we don't have that authority. Rather, we need to condemn the practice. I have no problem with a gay man living in Idaho as long as he stops practicing gay/homosexual behavior.

     
  • concernedcitizen posted at 6:48 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    concernedcitizen Posts: 2530

    I agree the pastors letter was bigoted however we already have state or federal laws against discrimination. (e.g. race, color, religious creed, ancestry, age, SEX, national origin, and/or disability)

    We do not need to start naming individual groups. That in itself is discrimination.

     
  • local res posted at 6:44 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    Tell that to the Portland Oregon baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. He is about to be sued because he disagreed.

     
  • local res posted at 6:43 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    local res Posts: 1165

    If this law passes everyone else loses their rights to disagree.

     
  • Peter posted at 6:22 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    Peter Posts: 679

    Homosexuality is no worse then [sic] adultery or stealing but it is still sin," Putman wrote last week. If "someone told me I had to hire or rents [sic] space to a thief I would not like that - neither would I like this

    Homosexuality that involves in cheating on one another is no more of a "sin" than heterosexuals doing the same. As fo comparing them to theives? That is just an outright crazy comment. What does being gay have to do with being a thief? It is that line of biggoted (and yes it is biggoted) comment that shines light on why this area needs HREI and laws like this. All this law does is to recognize gays to be treated as equals. The same way you would treat your hetero sexual neighbors. Nothing more. On the whole it is not going to change the vast majority of peoples lives here in CdA. Once this ordinance is passed life will go on and most will not even give it second thought.

     
  • voxpop posted at 5:33 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    voxpop Posts: 738

    Hmmmm ... my guess is that, apparently, there are no educational requirements to be a pastor in a Real Life Ministries church. Most ordained professionals have a doctorate of divinity, which presumably would enable them to write correctly and coherently. This guy doesn't seem to have that skill, among others.

     
  • IdahoMan posted at 12:30 am on Tue, Jun 4, 2013.

    IdahoMan Posts: 100

    "Anti-Discrimination" laws have no place in this country and they certainly have no place in our wonderful town of Coeur d Alene. You do not violate a person's rights by demanding they accept so-n-so on their premises or force them to provide service against their wishes.

    AD laws are unconstitutional. Maybe things like this will be the final-straw to finally get rid of these laws.

     
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