Republicans: Party has fractured - Coeur d'Alene Press: Political

Republicans: Party has fractured

Members say Hart tax case has divided them

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Posted: Tuesday, October 5, 2010 12:00 am | Updated: 11:59 am, Fri Nov 16, 2012.

COEUR d'ALENE - As Rep. Phil Hart wrestles the IRS over tax discrepancies, the Kootenai County Republican Party has fractured, according to four party members who spoke to The Press on Monday.

"What you've got is a group of wackos that have taken over the party," Sen. Mike Jorgenson said. "And they are supporting Phil Hart's agenda."

Most party leaders, including central committee chair Tina Jacobson, are firmly committed to Hart, Jorgenson said. But there are some Kootenai County Republicans who do not agree with Hart's stand on the 16th Amendment, and have chosen not to back him.

That disagreement has led to a division within the party.

"Who is (Hart) to say that the 16th Amendment is not a law?" asked committeeman Matt Roetter. "I said I will not support somebody who is violating the law. I was put on a skewer in the central committee for saying I wouldn't support him. It's not in our (party) platform that state and federal taxes are unconstitutional."

According to attorney Duane Rasmussen, Hart has also "disregarded Article III (Supreme Court) judges in his argument that the 16th Amendment is not valid."

Hart said Monday he does believe the 16th Amendment is constitutional, but the law has been interpreted too broadly. For the past six years, he added, he has been trying to square his taxes with the IRS.

"I've had the goalposts moved on me a few times, and my attempts to get back into the system have been frustrated," Hart said.

The IRS has filed nearly $1 million in liens against Hart.

No one from the Kootenai County Republican Party has approached him with concerns, Hart said, nor has he spoken face-to-face with any of his detractors. One-on-one discussion would be the best way to address the problem, he added.

"That seems to me where we should start this process," Hart said.

The party is not so deeply divided as to preclude open discourse, he said.

Yet Roetter and fellow Kootenai County Republican Fred Meckel claimed that party leadership, particularly Jacobson, engaged in "Gestapo-like" scare tactics during the organization's meeting last Tuesday.

"Tina (Jacobson) said at the last Central Committee meeting that, 'If you do not support Phil Hart, I want your resignation,'" Roetter recalled.

He said he could be voted out of the central committee at the next meeting later this month (it would require a 60 percent vote). One committeeman, Gary Ingram, has already tendered his resignation, the party members said.

Jacobson declined to comment Monday.

"Our pledge, and our oath, was to the citizens, not to the party," Jorgenson said. "If these people stay in control, they certainly don't represent my values, or standards."

Jorgenson, whose term of office ends this year, was defeated by Steve Vick in the May primary election. Vick received 59.5 percent of the vote.

Aside from Hart's tax issues, the four party members were also galled by the legislator's decision to not support Sen. John McCain - the GOP candidate - during the 2008 presidential election.

Hart backed Ron Paul instead.

They were also displeased by the influence of Rally Right, a highly conservative organization that supports Hart.

"It's not just Kootenai County," Jorgenson argued. "There are other central committees that have been hijacked, that have been orchestrated by Phil Hart and company. These people either need to be moved out, or there's going to be a new Republican Party, perhaps an independent Republican Party."

Hart said the time for intra-party politics is during the primary election. With the general election near at hand, divisiveness is not good for the GOP.

"I think it's important that we have party unity," Hart said. "If there's someone they don't like, they can just focus their energy elsewhere."

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30 comments:

  • Randy Myers posted at 6:40 am on Tue, Oct 12, 2010.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    @ Rad... I'm a resident. Sorry Denny.

     
  • RadRevD posted at 8:40 pm on Wed, Oct 6, 2010.

    RadRevD Posts: 3333

    to ancientemplar...

    I believe our rights (unalienable) and responsibilities were ascribed in the Garden.
    We need to get back, except there is no way but up!
    Can you fly without assistance?

     
  • skeptic posted at 8:37 pm on Wed, Oct 6, 2010.

    skeptic Posts: 56

    Sadly, this issue doen't end with Hart. Now we have Jai Nelson who failed to pay her business property tax because she first failed to register her business with the Secretary of State. If you date one do you become one? Or did they meet as tax protesters? And, if Jai Nelson succeeds in duping the voters and does in fact win the general electin, will Phil Hart be running the County by proxy? Or...will it be Larry Spencer? Stay tuned...Hey, can we all then have a permanent tax holiday?

     
  • RadRevD posted at 1:32 pm on Wed, Oct 6, 2010.

    RadRevD Posts: 3333

    Randy...
    please keep your nonresident head where the sun doesn't shine.
    You will be happier and we will not have to suffer your asinine anti-Constitutional comments!

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 12:30 pm on Wed, Oct 6, 2010.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    I have to just laugh at some of these comments...esp. Rad Rev & JoeIdaho.

    @ In ThePines....good point

    @ancientemplar ...Yes the fight for human rights and freedom does indeed continue. the magna carta was NOT the first place the rights of man were granted however. Need to go further back on that one. For example, the first recorded civilizations...Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Chinese, etc all had accomodations for rights even if only for certain classes of citizens.

     
  • InThePines posted at 4:55 am on Wed, Oct 6, 2010.

    InThePines Posts: 146

    Just WHO is Tina Jacobson to be demanding anyone back Phil Hart? This junk yard dog approach to fellow party members is uncalled for and SHE is the one who needs replacing regardless of who's backing Hart.
    Frank

     
  • ancientemplar posted at 7:22 pm on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    ancientemplar Posts: 1140

    RaRev, the rights of man were first granted with the Magna Carta in 1066 (during the Crusades!) and again manifest in the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution of the "THESE" United States enumerated the right of man within the new country. To remove any confusion and further enhanced to reinforce the intent of the Constitution the Bill of Rights was executed as the first ten amendments to the Constitution.

    When the federal government exerted its influence over the rights of man before the civil war over trade agreements with Europe the agrarian south rebelled.
    Such action is now much more civilized, 150 yrs later but the fight isn't any less intense.IIt's about human right s, dignity and FREEDOM .

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 6:55 pm on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    Just keep in mind Liberals that after November 2, you will be in very full MINORITY. The behind kicking that's coming to you is courtesy of common sense, USA, being delivered on a Tea Party truck. You can sit & call them names, go out of your way to make them look racist (OH MY GOD!!!!) and all, but in the end, they have again; COMMON SENSE.
    And ya'll don't.
    But you can still watch how we neuter your chosen one. The Obama Agenda completely dies on November 2, 2010. Mark your calenders.
    And we WILL repeal "Obamacare".

     
  • Lunacy Watch posted at 4:25 pm on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Lunacy Watch Posts: 176

    Federal detention centers are filled with jail house lawyers that concur with Mr. Hart's opinion of the 16th amendment. The galling fact he sits on the state's tax writing committee and receives firm support(Ms Jacobson))of Republican party leaders means perhaps a party fractured falls short of the true picture. Those of us former Republicans that could have bought into some parts of what is being branded and sold as conservatism today will certainly stand back this election cycle as it does appear the inmates have seized control of the asylum.

     
  • RadRevD posted at 2:30 pm on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    RadRevD Posts: 3333

    Even if the Founders were just tipping their hats to a gentlemanly deism, there's a spiritual aspect to the Declaration absent from the Constitution.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Big Idea No. 1. These rights exist; they are not granted by a ruler or government.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

    Big Idea No. 2: The people are the grantor of the government's authority.

    That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government …

    And Big Idea No. 3, the heart of the thing: The right to cast off unjust rule. We should not do this for "light and transient causes," but …

    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government …

    Their duty!


    seems like the Tea Party is taking America back to its radical root.
    ONE MAJOR PROBLEM: the Ruling Elite directs the military, and eventually RezBarry's 600,000 civil army, and they have more guns, bigger weapons, and as Dan suggests...they could employ the nukes.
    Unalienable Rights will be suspended any time Federal Bureaucracy is threatened. Exercising that right is codified as a crime in the 14th amendment. It will be nasty guerrilla warfare when once --it hits the fan.

    of suicide or natural causes, there remains but one righteous avenue of escape. Care to guess what that might be???

     
  • ReidHarlocker posted at 1:18 pm on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    ReidHarlocker Posts: 86

    Hollingsworth asks, what’s radical about the Republican agenda 2010? To begin with, the call to repeal the 17th amendment which does not seem to be on the national Republican agenda, but is clearly part of the Ron Paul agenda. This goes back to what Jan C posted earlier about Mr. Hart openly working against the party’s Presidential candidate in 2008 by supporting Ron Paul.

    I am not affiliated with any party and I do believe that the tax system is unfair and should be scraped, but I do not support anarchist like Mr. Hart and his band of disassociated supporters who have taken over the local Republicans, rather ruthlessly it seems.

    As for other positions cited in the 2010 Idaho Republican platform, many probably consider odd the rather dictatorial loyalty oath, where candidates swear to serve according the principles of the platform and not support candidates from other parties. There is also the Sound Currency or Sound Money position which challenges the authority of the union, this is troubling in my opinion and recent American history suggests that supporters openly challenge government authority. Sound familiar?

    Other resolutions entered into the platform included calling for the state legislature to openly defy the United States government by nullifying existing and future Federal mandates. That’s a nice concept but openly defying the Union is an invitation for disaster. Calls on the state to take back federally controlled lands, or allowing people pay state taxes in gold and silver coins and paying state and county workers with gold and silver coins.

    I’m sure to be chastised for these statements, they are of course taken out of context by a wild liberal nut job, but I think that it is important to note to point out that the Republican Party elite are not run of the mill conservative types. As for Phil Hart, I plan to write in for Howard Griffiths because anarchy is not good in a free society.

     
  • The Truth posted at 10:51 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    The Truth Posts: 2193

    Republicans *are* whackos. It can quite easily be seen everywhere.

     
  • Jan C posted at 10:12 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Jan C Posts: 71

    Mr. Hollingsworth, It is very unfortunate that Senator Jorgenson resorted to name calling in his comment.
    It is part of the problem, that I am so concerned about and tried to explain in my last letter to the edior.

    However, he at least has the character to get behind the candidate that wins, as he did in the case with Raul Labrador...whether he agrees with him FULLY or not. Sadly that was not the case for Mr. Hart in the last Presidential election...and his advice hurt us all. I sure didn't see him advocating party unity in our Idaho Primaries this year either.

    Interesting, (if this article is correct) that he is now standing down from his belief that the 16th amendment was never ratified.

     
  • Jan C posted at 9:57 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Jan C Posts: 71

    Good point, Mr. Gookin!! Point well-taken, because I was beginning to feel like the party is indeed fractured. Instead, let me say we have a viable, qualified "write-in" candidate for Hart's position. I for one, will be marking the bubble next to Howard Griffiths name which I will write in on November 2. He has much the same conservative positions as Hart, but he doesn't think he is above the law. His experience more than qualifies him:
    Public Works Director
    Kootenai County Sheriff's Marine Division
    Battalion Chief Fire Department
    Business owner & CEO

    If Phil Hart was as strong in character as he would like us all to believe, he would resign from his position...especially in light of what this article reveals. Demanding people resign if they don't support Hart??
    Sad!

    Also, Mr. Griffiths has respectfully and correctly gone about his write-in campaign. Not at all the same as what we saw in Alaska when Murkowski lost the primaries.

     
  • Randy Myers posted at 9:20 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Randy Myers Posts: 1635

    I'd say Jorgensen is right on about the GOP in Kootenai Co. being "fractured." Hart clearly has tried to avoid ..no that's not strong enough....EVADE...taxes. I am "enjoying" watching the Tea Baggers tear up the Republican Party sort of like you can't help but watch an accident. I think it's high time for some 3rd and even 4th parties to get more highly involved in American politics.

    @ Why...You are right...what a blogger's delight today's Press makes. It's too bad, however, that there can't be some more solution based comments.

     
  • ancientemplar posted at 8:56 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    ancientemplar Posts: 1140

    Yo why not.... evidently there are some things that aren't settled. I don't know do you go to jail from tax court or do you go to jail from criminal court? I would venture a guess that the IRS hasn't made its case.

     
  • Why Not posted at 8:29 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Why Not Posts: 4046

    Hollingsworth, what in the Sam Houston are you doing? Pasting the whole story to the freaking blog? You got so excited about this you almost wet yourself man, didn’t you?

    And “Ancienttemplar”, crusader for Christian truth no doubt. “Hart hasn't been to tax court yet so he's still innocent and evidently not intimated by the IRS”. (?????) Dude the guy lost his case and appeal, this is D-O-N-E! Why is he still in office? Why isn’t he in JAIL?

     
  • posted at 8:25 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Posts:

    Sorry about the earlier post: My computer is the master, not the servant :)

    Mike Jorgenson makes an interesting comment: "What you've got is a group of wackos that have taken over the party,"..."And they are supporting Phil Hart's agenda." (No one has defined wacko; it is probably just anyone who does not happen to see life as you see it.) This is an important statement that completely misses the point. The point is that we support Phil Hart because he has accepted our agenda of less government, lower taxes and more individual responsibility. Some may feel the Party is fractrued: Well if it is fractrued it is mainly because of their efforts. There has actually not been this much unity in a very long time, and that was in perfect evidence by the unity we enjoyed at the Idaho Republican Convention last spring.

    No one seems to ask what is the radical agenda of these "wackos". From all that I can see their agenda is a Party that more perfectly resembles traditional Republican values especially those indicated in the Idaho Republican Party Platform. It is also important to point out that when we did not get our way in the past we did not go whining to the Press, but continued to work for the good of the Party. If some are not happy with the current direction of the Kootenai County Republican Central Committee they have the same right these folk had to run for precinct committeeman, to convince a majority of their neighbors that what they stand for is what is best for America.

    I strongly supported Mike Jorgenson when he first ran for office. When he decided to support contractor licensing/registration he lost some of my support. When he supported licensing midwives he lost more of it. We cannot talk about limited government out of one side of our mouths and then propose more government out of the other.

    The coming election is a critical election and we will need every Republican who stands for those traditional Republican values to be active in sharing the Republican story. If we are not happy with the Obama-Pelosi-Reid agenda then we need to do something positive about it and not whine about those who are trying to make some headway.

    Jim Hollingsworth
    comments: jimhollingsworth@frontier.com

     
  • RadRevD posted at 8:22 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    RadRevD Posts: 3333

    nice copy - paste at close proximity Jim!

    So few understand the underpinnings of the current controversy.
    They believe the USA will continue forever.
    We have morphed into a nation that no longer resembles what was initially intended.
    We are now on the brink of collapse with a new order to be established from the ashes.

    Questions for individuals: Can you survive or perhaps thrive under an unlimited hereditary monarchy?
    Will you tolerate a lack of representation of your views and dispossession from your unalienable rights?

    The best advise is to avoid all contact with the bstrds.
    A moment will arrive when they will impose their will upon you.
    On that day...stand firm and look up!

     
  • Dan Gookin posted at 8:21 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Dan Gookin Posts: 672

    Trimming the deadwood from a tree does not make the tree fractured.

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 8:16 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    BIGGER GOVERNMENT....(Democratic Mantra).
    Fiepie, you're all wet.
    Hart hasn't been convicted of anything. The Dems are getting ready to get steamrolled to almost non-existence in the upcoming elections, and the reason for it is that they have allowed the public to see what they really stand for: Socialism.

    Templar, I couldn't agree with you more.

     
  • Truthful posted at 8:14 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Truthful Posts: 130

    TEA PARTY PEOPLE UNITE! Take back the Republican Party from the liberals who have hijacked it!
    The Tea Party movement has done a great job of exposing the people who have taken over the party. Keep up the good work! There will be more conservative Republicans out to vote than ever! The group of 4 whiners could always go back to the Democratic Party!

     
  • posted at 8:05 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Posts:

    Republicans: Party has fractured
    Members say Hart tax case has divided them

    StoryCommenting (4)Share This
    ShareSend this page to your friendsPrintCreate a hardcopy of this pageFont Size:Default font sizeLarger font sizePosted: Tuesday, October 5, 2010 12:00 am

    By NICK ROTUNNO/Staff writer | 4 comments

    COEUR d'ALENE - As Rep. Phil Hart wrestles the IRS over tax discrepancies, the Kootenai County Republican Party has fractured, according to four party members who spoke to The Press on Monday.

    "What you've got is a group of wackos that have taken over the party," Sen. Mike Jorgenson said. "And they are supporting Phil Hart's agenda."

    Most party leaders, including central committee chair Tina Jacobson, are firmly committed to Hart, Jorgenson said. But there are some Kootenai County Republicans who do not agree with Hart's stand on the 16th Amendment, and have chosen not to back him.

    That disagreement has led to a division within the party.

    "Who is (Hart) to say that the 16th Amendment is not a law?" asked committeeman Matt Roetter. "I said I will not support somebody who is violating the law. I was put on a skewer in the central committee for saying I wouldn't support him. It's not in our (party) platform that state and federal taxes are unconstitutional."

    According to attorney Duane Rasmussen, Hart has also "disregarded Article III (Supreme Court) judges in his argument that the 16th Amendment is not valid."

    Hart said Monday he does believe the 16th Amendment is constitutional, but the law has been interpreted too broadly. For the past six years, he added, he has been trying to square his taxes with the IRS.

    "I've had the goalposts moved on me a few times, and my attempts to get back into the system have been frustrated," Hart said.

    The IRS has filed nearly $1 million in liens against Hart.

    No one from the Kootenai County Republican Party has approached him with concerns, Hart said, nor has he spoken face-to-face with any of his detractors. One-on-one discussion would be the best way to address the problem, he added.

    "That seems to me where we should start this process," Hart said.

    The party is not so deeply divided as to preclude open discourse, he said.

    Yet Roetter and fellow Kootenai County Republican Fred Meckel claimed that party leadership, particularly Jacobson, engaged in "Gestapo-like" scare tactics during the organization's meeting last Tuesday.

    "Tina (Jacobson) said at the last Central Committee meeting that, 'If you do not support Phil Hart, I want your resignation,'" Roetter recalled.

    He said he could be voted out of the central committee at the next meeting later this month (it would require a 60 percent vote). One committeeman, Gary Ingram, has already tendered his resignation, the party members said.

    Jacobson declined to comment Monday.

    "Our pledge, and our oath, was to the citizens, not to the party," Jorgenson said. "If these people stay in control, they certainly don't represent my values, or standards."

    Jorgenson, whose term of office ends this year, was defeated by Steve Vick in the May primary election. Vick received 59.5 percent of the vote.

    Aside from Hart's tax issues, the four party members were also galled by the legislator's decision to not support Sen. John McCain - the GOP candidate - during the 2008 presidential election.

    Hart backed Ron Paul instead.

    They were also displeased by the influence of Rally Right, a highly conservative organization that supports Hart.

    "It's not just Kootenai County," Jorgenson argued. "There are other central committees that have been hijacked, that have been orchestrated by Phil Hart and company. These people either need to be moved out, or there's going to be a new Republican Party, perhaps an independent Republican Party."

    Hart said the time for intra-party politics is during the primary election. With the general election near at hand, divisiveness is not good for the GOP.

    "I think it's important that we have party unity," Hart said. "If there's someone they don't like, they can just focus their energy elsewhere."

    More about

     
  • ancientemplar posted at 7:57 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    ancientemplar Posts: 1140

    Sounds like the "establishment Rhinos" are whining because its not the GOP as usual. Get over it. Hart hasn't been to tax court yet so he's still innocent and evidently not intimated by the IRS. He won the primary and the "good ol boys" are can't handle it. It would be fine with me if the Rhinos,(Roetter, Jorgensen,Ingram,and Rassmussen) became the minority third party in the Union. "The Dems are next", mark my words..

     
  • fiepie posted at 7:52 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    As for the Republican party being fractured...It seems that that is a nation wide problem. Between the Tax Party folks and those who have been Republican for a spell there appears to be quite some division.
    Some of the folks who won the Republican primaries...are those the folks you really want to back?
    Are the Tea Party candidates for real? You have everything from witch practising to mafia style campaigning.
    Do you really want those in making your laws?
    Don't we have enough monkeys in there now?

     
  • fiepie posted at 7:46 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    fiepie Posts: 2811

    As Mr. Hart and others have gone to court and failed to have these complaints about taxes found substantiated one has to wonder if the tax laws might not be legal under our constitution.
    I would believe that congress and then the states would have to address our constitution, write a new amendment, ratify it or take the 16th out of the constitution...then Mr. Hart would be right.
    It is not a matter of whether we agree with the laws on taxation..either they are legal or not.
    They have been found legal and that leaves Mr. Hart....illegal and therefore wrong.
    Being he is on the tax committee for the state of Idaho and has refused to pay those taxes...why can't we all follow suit and not get jailed, lose our jobs as he has been allowed?

    Sorry JoeIdaho but Mr. Hart has been proven wrong by a court of law. If he is actually "correct" then so are the all the folks who went to court for whatever reason...robbery, murder, theft, etc. and our courts are wrong.
    Which is it?

     
  • JoeIdaho posted at 6:57 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    JoeIdaho Posts: 2841

    You're wrong, "Why Not", completely, and Phil Hart is correct.
    The attitude you espouse is typical of all left wingers who want a government uber alles situation. Perfect scenario for you guys would be full socialisnm, mixed with communism to "keep you safe".

    This guy, Hart, is standing up to the system, and Liberals will laugh...right up until the time THEY have to stand up to the system. Then, the Harts of this world become their heroes.

     
  • Why Not posted at 6:37 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    Why Not Posts: 4046

    To heck with Sheriff Joe, we got renegade Baptist, biker bad boys and tax cheats all in the same edition of the Press, Dang it’s like being a five year old at Christmas if you like to blog.

    North Idaho has been buzzing for months about the Phil Hart Nazi’s taking control of the local Republican chapters. The older women have their panties all in a bunch over Tina “the enforcer” Jacobson and about Jai Nelson’s influence over the committee hierarchy. Good gravy, if there were viable Democrats in the race we could see drastic changes here in Idaho, maybe old Jimmy Pappas should get out and start campaigning as a write in candidate for Governor.

    And POOR PHIL HART? He’s so beaten by the IRS and the state, why isn’t he in jail, and why is he still holding office? It’s absolutely amazing that after nearly seven years of dodging the system, he doesn’t get that he broke the law. He is intelligent enough to realize that case law is subject to interpretation, but if your argument is weak, or you don’t have enough dough to carry on your crusade you settle. Deep down the truth is that he refuses to recognize that the way he has conducted this failed argument was wrong, but he continues to push his ideas publically and as an elected official, now it seems by taking over the local GOP. (RESIGN PHIL RESIGN NOW)

    If I were a conspiracy monger I might suggest that this Rally Right plot is a bit deeper than our local party affiliates there Mr. Jorgenson, the real “Oddjob” is larger than life in Boise, it’s none other than Bill Sali, so why then did you right in support of Raul Labrador, eh?


     
  • iamyou posted at 6:22 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    iamyou Posts: 31

    Get over losing the primary and think obout the bigger picture. Our country is in jeopordy!

     
  • efromm posted at 5:12 am on Tue, Oct 5, 2010.

    efromm Posts: 653

    Both parties are corrupt vote for neither!! You can't trust politicians ever...

     
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