OBAMA: Oust him from office - Coeur d'Alene Press: Letters To Editor

OBAMA: Oust him from office

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Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:00 am

A few years back, President Richard Nixon hired some men to break into a Democratic office to receive information on their strategy. It did not affect the American public at large, but it was enough for him to step down as president.

President Clinton lied about committing adultery, in of all places, the Oval Office. Again, this did not affect the American public, but it ended with him being impeached.

We now have a president lying to the American public stating that they can keep their insurance and doctors if they like, plus their premiums will be less, but millions of affected Americans are finding the opposite to be true. Should President Obama step down from office or be impeached for what he has purposely done?



  • Discuss

Welcome to the discussion.


  • fiepie posted at 8:45 pm on Mon, Nov 25, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2821

    6M...perhaps if you learned to read you would see what Joe D and I were discussing...you suppose?

  • MMMMMM posted at 8:17 pm on Mon, Nov 25, 2013.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    No, fiepie, I'm not going to do that just to prolong this discussion with you. You're diverting again - - - we wern't discussing LBJ.

    Next time you see the doctor, tell him you have flight of ideas and/or tangential thinking. Or maybe it's something else. Who knows?

  • fiepie posted at 8:17 am on Mon, Nov 25, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2821

    6m...Will you put forth something that will...prove...beyond a shadow of doubt...that LBJ not only prolonged the Vietnamese War but did it so he...LBJ...could make money from that action?

    Now, is that changing the subject? Please provide your "proof".

  • MMMMMM posted at 10:04 pm on Sun, Nov 24, 2013.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Joe D, hi lad! My older lads are 55, so I'm certainly old enough to call you lad. Personally, I kind of like Jean Shinoda Bolen's term for us, "Juicy Crones"!!!

    I responded to your post of Tuesday the 19, at 4:35 (I think)

    You will never get anywhere with firpie! He only blames others, never the one we're discussing.

  • MMMMMM posted at 2:40 pm on Sun, Nov 24, 2013.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Joe D, you are holding an impossible debate with firpie! He can only recite history and his interpretation of it. So far as I've seen, in all his postings he can just blame previous people. When he starts losing a debate, he reverts to diversion! Somewhat like a 9 year old.

    So, here's my interpretation of history. I know a little about the history of the A bombs, as I grew up in Los Alamos and know many of the nuclear physicists and their children. It was actually their children who were with me in school. And later my own children went to school with the children of the physicists. Times were different then, and the necessity to end the war was paramount. It's easy for those in today's world to criticize. Obviously they have no clue what they were saved. I wonder how they would have liked Jap leadership here! Or German. These scientists agonized over the possible destruction and eventual destruction of these bombs and what this may have started. I also knew many of them in church - - - I even got a little lecture from the one who did the final assembly of the first bomb dropped regarding his belief in God. I was in the rebellion stage at that time - - I'll never forget what he said.

    Personally, I was glad when my uncle was rescused from the Baatan death march. He never recovered fully!

  • MMMMMM posted at 12:43 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721


  • MMMMMM posted at 12:42 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Miketeague, Bush did'nt lie about weapons of mass destrction. Bush's error was in waiting so long to go in and get them and/or clean them out. Was it six months? Anyway, he "brandished his sword" and gave Sadam plenty of time to clean out when the inspectors had found. Many of these weapons went to Syria,

  • MMMMMM posted at 12:39 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    MMMMMM Posts: 2721

    Thanks for that reminder of how Castro purged his country of those who opposed him. Hopefully, we can learn from that since our "leader" is apparently doing that right now with us.

  • fiepie posted at 7:14 am on Thu, Nov 21, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2821

    Joe D...sometimes it's kinda nice that we don't get referred to as "old". Went to a game the other night and the lady at the door said anyone over sixty could get in free. I asked if she needed to see my i.d. and she said "no" that she thought everyone else was certain I was that old....I bought skinny mirrors to show I lost wieght now if I could find a younger mirror...

    Anyway...we know Truman started backing the French, that Ike sent the first military aid to the Vietnese, that Kennedy sent troops and that LBJ sent more...all in hopes of stopping the spread of communism.
    I wouldn't be surprised who "proffited" of anything to do with that or any other war.
    People invest in things and time sometimes takes us to the strangest places.
    I would be satisfied that LBJ nor anyone else purposely started, enhanced, prolonged a war just for a bunch of money.
    And no, I don't defend anyone based on their party affiliation...hopefully as it is supposed to be..on facts or truth.
    I can be wrong in my beliefs but I can also change what I believe when I find I believe in error...

  • Joe D posted at 7:39 pm on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    fiepie, Thank you for calling me "lad", scene I'm 58 years old it makes me fell kinda younger somehow. No Brown & Root is a very large Construction company. They have done business world wide for many years. Same thing with Halliburton one of the largest oil outfits in the world. "How can I be certain LBJ or anyone made money through a certain event?" The research I've done on the matter is how.

  • fiepie posted at 6:23 pm on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2821

    Joe D...Haliburton, to mention one, had a contract in Iraq...was that their total income?
    Brown, Root, Perini...did they just make their money off Vietnam?
    Bell Helicopters...according to what you put forth...LBJ profitted off those lost in Vietnam...never sold a helicopter to anyone else, except the military and only during Vietnam?
    Well, lad, they sold many before and after and during to a large amout of countries and companies.
    How are you certain that LBJ or anyone only made money through a certain event?

  • Joe D posted at 5:32 pm on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Mahuin, And because you don't believe obama lied, does not make it Untrue.

    ....he did indeed give the people that voted for him way too much credit...
    But that's no what I said, Joe --- that's what you said. You missed some of what I said Mhauin What I said was. (But I do agree with you on one thing, he did indeed give the people that voted for him way too much credit for common sense, because that is something they are seriously lacking.) You do understand the point I was trying to make; don't you? Here let me spell it out for you, people that voted for obama have zero, zip, nada, common sense.

    ...might get you somewhere with the crowd you run with... Not sure what this means..... It means, Typical Liberals...

    What lives has obama care saved Mahuin? Not too many people to date have been able to enroll in obama care, because, well, it was a six hundred million dollar Boo-Boo, and just whose fault would that be Mahuin? Here, let me spell it out for you. The guy that is "supposed" to be in charge, that would be obama. obama and his health care catastrophe have and will be a failure Mahuin, get use to that fact. BTW your hero's approval rating is at 37%, and obama care is not doing much better. Baaaaaaa Baaaaaaa Baaaaaa I think your buddy s are calling you Mahuin.

  • Joe D posted at 4:42 pm on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    fiepie LBJ made money from Brown, Root? I did too and also in Brown, Root and Perini. Is something wrong with that?

    The question should be, How many people had investments in companies that were profiting from that war, and were also in charge of and running the war in Vietnam.

  • fiepie posted at 3:15 pm on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2821

    Joe D...atomic bombings of nagisaki and hiroshima answers.com
    I believe with that you can probrably find that information in various places...it has been estimated that between 150 and 200 thousand were lost in those two cities.

    LBJ made money from Brown, Root? I did too and also in Brown, Root and Perini. Is something wrong with that?
    I wonder how many people had money or stock, invested in Bell, Brown, or any other company. Some were probrably invested in munltions.
    Just think of how many are making money from polluting through oil, gas, plastics, etc.

    The atomic bombs were dropped after we had extensively bombed Japan with fire bombs in a lot more places than just two cities.

  • Joe D posted at 2:39 pm on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    fiepie I would like to know where you got your figures of conventional bombing casualty's in Japan during WWII. LBJ and his wife Lady Bird were major stock holders in Bell Helicopter, Bell manufactured the UH-1 (Huey), every time a Huey went down, LBJ's bank roll went up. He also had dealings with Brown&Root during the war in Vietnam, a chance for more dollars to be funneled his way. I would like to know, had it been a Republican President that ordered the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, would you have been so quick to defend him as you have Truman?

  • Mahiun posted at 11:54 am on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4863

    ...obama Did Lie, knowingly and with the purpose of getting re-elected.
    I understand that you believe this, Joe. I even understand that you really, really, really, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY believe this. But that doesn't make it true; for that, you need evidence, data, proof. And you haven't offered any evidence, not even circumstantial.

    ...real smart guy's don't get ahead of themselves or over sell or over state.
    Bullsh----! Of course they do; they're still human.

    ...he did indeed give the people that voted for him way too much credit...
    But that's no what I said, Joe --- that's what you said.

    ...why over five million American's have had their health care policies CANCELED because of obama care...
    They have not had their policies canceled because of the ACA. They have had their policies canceled because of simple corporate greed --- they could have done the right thing and brought these policies into compliance, but they didn't. But let's be clear: there is not now, and never was, anything in the ACA that "required" or "forced" these policies to be canceled. Nothing. Not one word.

    ...might get you somewhere with the crowd you run with...
    Not sure what this means..... Bikers? Musicians? Academics? Software designers? What do they have to do with it??!

    ...it don't mean squat to me...
    Then let me spell it out for ya: Grow up, quit whining, stop inventing "scandals" and "conspiracies" where none exist, get rid of the repeated attempts to sabotage the ACA, and get on with things. The ACA is law and is going to remain law. It will need tweaking; it will encounter glitches --- any fundamental change this large is going to run into bumps in the road. But it has already saved lives, including mine. It's not going away; get over it.

  • MAR-BEE posted at 6:26 am on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    MAR-BEE Posts: 758

    "Maybe you should try working on today's problems and leave the past behind." Joe D. ----- Then you go on about the past, LBJ, Nancy Pelosi etc. Guess as long as you do it, that's okay, but when others do it, that's wrong.

    Todays problems came from our past and to "Ignore" them, we are bound to repeat them. An "End" to these wars will come when voters stop electing these R and D "Puppets" of Corporate America and Special Interest Groups. An end to wars will come when we start electing men, and women, who have served in these wars.

  • Joe D posted at 3:28 am on Wed, Nov 20, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    DC Like they say in the old country, "ToughskyShitsky"

  • fiepie posted at 10:05 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2821

    Joe D....Truman did provide military aid to the French but he was also pretty well wrapped up in Korea.
    As for bombing Japan...the Japanese were committed to fight to the end if Japan was invaded. The bombings of those two cities...in which Japan was allowed to decide if it were to surrender or continue fighting after the first was dropped helped bring that war to a quick conclusion.
    You mentioned "killing hundreds of thousands"...the conventional bombing that proceeded the atomic droppings actually killed more Japanese than both the atomic together..

    Ike increased the military spending to Vietnam, the French were or had pulled out, he also increased the military advisors and we started training Vietnamese soldiers.
    It has been recorded that when JFK was swore in as President that Ike told Kennedy that Ike did not see how Kennedy would not have to send more military to Vietnam.

    LBJ profitted so much from the Vietnam war???...he made no money from it and it cost him his job.
    Had Barry Goldwater won the election he stated that he would use atomic bombs on Vietnam also. That was the main reason Mr. Goldwater lost that election.
    History would be interested in whatever information you might have that LBJ proffited from that war.
    So would I...

    Nobody is trying to find blame with either a Republican nor a Democratic President. History bears out what each faced and what decisions they made. Some good and some bad.

  • Joe D posted at 6:54 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Mahuin, obama Did Lie, knowingly and with the purpose of getting re-elected. He told the sheep exactly what they wanted to hear and you and the other sheep swallowed it, hook line and sinker. You're the one that said obama is a real smart guy, "Crazy like a fox". Remember that Mahuin? Well real smart guy's don't get ahead of themselves or over sell or over state. A real smart guy would have be very clear to the people. So what does that make obama Mahuin? But I do agree with you on one thing, he did indeed give the people that voted for him way too much credit for common sense, because that is something they are seriously lacking. The rest of your comment does not explain, why over five million American's have had their health care policies CANCELED because of obama care, policies that they may not be able to get back. And telling people to " pull on their Big Girl Panties, get a grip, and get over it!" might get you somewhere with the crowd you run with, but it don't mean squat to me.

  • Joe D posted at 5:52 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Gee, looks like dear leader (obama) may have yet another scandal he may have to lie his way out of. Seems that the unemployment rate numbers prior to the 2012 election were being manipulated by the Census Bureau. Time will tell.

  • Mahiun posted at 4:40 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4863

    But Joe, all you've offered in response are OPINION pieces. So, these people have opinions --- so what?! Show me the data!

    PolitiFact might or might not be right, in their ratings --- but that's a different discussion. All I posted was a study by the CFMA that reported on how PolitiFact rated statements by Republicans vs Democrats. These ratings, and the amounts of them, are factopinion that there were X number of "False" ratings; all anybody has to do is to count them!

    Show me the data, show me where I'm wrong, show me where the CFMA is wrong in their counting....

  • Joe D posted at 4:35 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    fiepie Why not go all the way back to Harry S. Truman. You know the Democratic President that dropped Atomic bombs on two Japanese city's, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children. Talk about collateral damage. I can not believe that you would try to hang Vietnam on Eisenhower; Oh but of course, Ike was a Republican, so it must have been his fault. You liberals really crack me up, Ya'll can't take responsibility for any thing.
    The whole idea of aiding the French to defeat the Vietminh goes back to Harry Truman. Both parties and the media blamed him for losing China to the communists. He (and most high-ranking Americans) saw communism as monolithic. He did not want to involve U.S. troops. So he paid the French to fight the Vietminh, which they were happy to do, given the economic benefits to France of retaining their colony. If you can not see the connection between LBJ's lust for money and the war in Vietnam, then I don't know what to tell you my friend.

  • Mahiun posted at 4:23 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4863

    A child with leukemia has no defenses, no options and is not at war...
    Nor does that child typically have his own insurance policy, so it's just a wee bit difficult to see how that same child is going to be required to have maternity benefits as part of his policy.

    The child's mother will have maternity benefits as part of her policy, and it's a very lucky thing that she will, too, else the child in question might have been in even worse shape than he currently is!

    But.....somehow......because the child's mother had maternity benefits on her policy, the child is doomed to die, in town? How the.......how........what th.......wha.........HUH??!!?

  • DCIDAHO posted at 4:22 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2149


  • Joe D posted at 3:55 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Yes I am DC. You got a problem with that?

  • DCIDAHO posted at 2:48 pm on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    DCIDAHO Posts: 2149

    You're seriously gonna go with something written in godlikeproductions.com? Really?

  • fiepie posted at 10:53 am on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2821

    Joe D...Ike was afraid that communist would take over each country as in a domino theory. He sent advisors and different companies started construction of airfields, roads, etc.
    JFK inherited the mess and as we were in the "cold" war he sent more advisors and then we started sending military to protect our interests.
    When LBJ came into office it was thought that if we put more into the war we would finish quicker but we were limited as to how much...many of us thought, like Goldwater, drop a couple bombs and keep our brothers and family members home.
    JFK, like Bush, would have loved to have bought those mess's to an end but we were too involved and would have left those countries at the mercy of whomever.
    I believe LBJ probrably felt the same way.

    It's easy to say LBJ or whomever was involved in Kennedy's death but there has been no proof put up.
    Now, have you heard that the tooth fairy is marrying big foot? Wowwwww...it's all over Washington, well maybe Nevada, one of those two...

    Intrepid...besides medicaid there are many organizations that would help someone with cancer.
    I also have maturnity care benefits, have had for many years, but my employer would not let me take time off whenever I had morning sickness....now my wife, on the other hand....

  • Intrepid posted at 10:29 am on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Intrepid Posts: 1057

    During the 2004 Presidential campaign John Edwards (VP candidate) proclaimed that if elected that "the paralyzed would walk again". He was hawking a panacea, the impossible goal. Admittedly Obama has done the same with the ACA. He has blustered out impossible goals, made impossible promises - just to sell a plan. The difference is in the context. One was the context of a campaign, the other was in the context of real legislation. Edwards set of lies was simply hollow campaign rhetoric. Obama set of lies established actionable laws. The latter is a blatant act of fraud, perpetrating obvious and profound deceptions intentionally to gain tangible results. Obama lied and deceived to get his way - and he succeeded and is now accountable for those lies.

    On the battlefield soldiers are armed and trained for combat. Unfortunately in war some will die. A child with leukemia has no defenses, no options and is not at war - not in the traditional definition of war. But that child is now at war with his own President, and that Presidents lies. The child will lose. He will lose his life, in his own town, right here in America because Obama insisted that the child should have maternity care benefits.

    How insurance companies operate is no mystery. There was no mystery in what they would do under the ACA. Obama knew they would cancel policies. Obama wanted them to cancel policies. Obamacare needed them to cancel policies. He needed those families to buy healthcare from his exchanges and at higher costs. Obamacare needed those people to pay more so that others could pay less. Obama wanted to paint these citizens into a corner and force them to pay more and likely get less.

    Of course when you surround yourself with idiocy and rely upon idiocy - you get idiotic results. Obama's ACA rollout is a total train wreck. The policies got cancelled (as planned, as expected) but nobody could even get new policies, not at any price. And now Obama expects the insurance industry to turn on a dime to fix HIS mistakes.

    Sick old people, sick babies and sick children will die - because Obama lied. They will not be allowed to fight for their lives - Obama will have personally snuffed out their lives.

    This is a travesty of unparalleled proportion. And some here defend it - the child will die - 'for the greater good'.

  • Mahiun posted at 9:01 am on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4863

    It's not about a contest, Joe. It's about conteXt, and gaining a little perspective.

    Obama did not lie; he overstated. He oversold, he got ahead of himself, no question of that, and nobody is even trying to argue otherwise. He should have been clearer; he apparently gave the American people too much credit for common sense --- enough common sense to know that while the law would not require that your insurance policy be canceled, there will always be factors beyond the law's control that could affect your policy. But it bears repeating that the ACA did not and does not require that those policies be canceled; they could have been modified to meet the minimum standards of the ACA.

    Instead, insurance companies chose to try to use it as an opportunity to deceive their customers and "upwell" them to much more expensive products of the insurance company --- rather than informing these customers that they could almost certainly obtain better, cheaper coverage through the insurance exchanges, and that they might qualify for substantial subsidies or even Medicaid.

    But that's not even the "perspective" part. The "perspective" part is that even if you're convinced that Obama deliberately "lied" or misled the American public, the magnitude of this "transgression" doesn't even begin to approach that of some of the documented deceit of his predecessors. No one has died on a battlefield because of a few snafus with the ACA; hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of the "WMD Whopper". The entire course of American history and electoral validity was not changed by less than 5% of the insured American populace having their insurance policies replaced; Watergate shook the very foundations of our electoral process. No international crisis was generated because the ACA Web site had problems (that we later find out were at least in part because of deliberate Denial of Service attacks); the Iran-Contra affair threatened to do just that.

    It comes down to a lot of people needing to pull on their Big Girl Panties, get a grip, and get over it! The ACA is not going away; it is law and it is going to remain law, short of the Republicans coming up with a legislative miracle between now and the first of the year.

    Is it problem-free? No. Is it the absolutely ultimate, optimal, best-ever way we could have dealt with the healthcare crisis in this country? No --- that would have been single-payer. But it is what was possible; it is what stood a snowball's chance of getting passed, given the political realities of the time. And it is better than simply pretending that everything was juuuuuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiiiiiiine.

  • Joe D posted at 8:56 am on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    fiepie, It has not been kept a secret. JFK was going to pull out of Vietnam, LBJ and his buddies were make millions of dollars off of that war; now put two and two together, you will come up with four. These are facts not theory. I am not protecting LBJ. Go to Texas and ask some of the older folks there what they think of LBJ. And then truck on over to Arkansas, ask some of those folks about the blood on Bill and Hill's hands. The Middle East will Never be stable; so why wait to leave?



  • fiepie posted at 7:59 am on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    fiepie Posts: 2821

    Joe D...if you are certain LBJ and/ or Bell Helicopter were involved in JFK's death why have you kept it a secret for all these years.
    Nixon was accused right off the start...why you protect LBJ?

    With the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...when Obama took office they thought about ending them right off or within a year or so but neither country was stable enough, in that time period, to have a stable government.
    As it turned out both countries are still not stable.

  • Screen Name posted at 7:17 am on Tue, Nov 19, 2013.

    Screen Name Posts: 759

    Bush Sr. said he would not raise taxes. He raised taxes.

  • Joe D posted at 9:43 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Mar-Bee One more thing. obama could bring home the troupes from Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow with the stroke of his executive order pen, a power that he seems to enjoy wielding. That would put an end to the wars, he could have done that during his first year in office.

  • Joe D posted at 8:24 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Hey Mar-Bee Bush has been out of office for almost five years now; don't you think it's time to move along? And if you call defending our country from more terrorist attacks is unjust, then I would question you Patriotism. You are probably one of those folks that will swear up and down that Bush had cruise missiles flown into the world trade centers. Ever hear of LBJ and Bell Helicopter. Now there's a good one for you, even caused the murder of a good man JFK. Yeah kinda weird, 50 years later, new information is surfacing tying LBJ to his assassination. You also might want to check out what Dianne Finstien's husband did to make some of his multi- millions. Oh wait I did that for you

    .http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/12/firm-chaired-by-sen-feinsteins-husband-cashes-in-o/?page=all Or Nancy Pelosi's hubby.


    And these people are STILL in office. Maybe you should try working on today's problems and leave the past behind. I'ts time for obama to take responsibility for his own failures. You said once that you don't support obama, I think you're pulling my leg on that one, I think you worship at the alter of obama, right along with all the other sheep.

  • MAR-BEE posted at 7:31 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    MAR-BEE Posts: 758

    Dale Hedman seem concerned about liars. Tell me Dale, were you as concerned about the lies of Republicans during the eight years theft of our Oval Office by the conservatives Bush/Cheney team? Those years got us into these two unjust wars, that are costing tax payer plenty today, and to help pay for "Their" wars, they cut taxes for their oil and weapons manufacture "Buddies." Really now, if your howling about impeachment now, were you screaming loudly the same rant during those eight years we were told our vote doesn't count?

  • Joe D posted at 3:39 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Mahuin this is some of what I am talking about when I say you use liberal sources to "prove" your liberal




  • Intrepid posted at 2:46 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Intrepid Posts: 1057

    Politi-Fact is a "fact check" outfit owned by newspapers, established in 2007 and it is often seen as just another Obama mouthpiece organization. Imagine that, eh Mahiun?

  • Intrepid posted at 2:36 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Intrepid Posts: 1057

    Suppose that 'somebody' was the President of the United States talking to millions of citizens making formal promises and declarations about one of the most costly and intrusive pieces of proposed legislation in America's history? Just suppose............. cuz I'm sure that would never, ever happen. Especially not from one of those intensely honest Democratic leaders.

    Then suppose the legislation was brought up for final vote with less than 24 hours to be completely reviewed, this by a Democratically controlled congress. Just suppose....... cuz surely that would never, ever happen. Especially not from an intensely honest Democratic leadership.

    BUT, just for grins, let us say it did - there was less than 24 hours for our Congressional leaders to understand this massive tome of a law, before they had to vote on it....... just supposing here. Wouldn't be hilarious if the Speaker of the House said something incredibly dumb like, "just pass the law and we'll read what's in it later."

    Then just suppose that the Democratically controlled Congress passed using cloture, passing strictly on partisan lines. Suppose that not a single Republicans supported the law and every Democrat did.

    Just supposing - of course. Phfffftt!

  • Joe D posted at 1:52 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Mahuin, Thank you for making my point. If people told me those things about cars, houses, or whatever the case may be and it were untrue; then those people would in fact be either very stupid to think such things or they would in fact be lairs. So which one of those tow is obama? Could be both if you ask me. But if I were foolish enough to believe what I may have been told about the car, the house, or obama care, then the jokes on me. I no more need any hand holding or explanation from anyone, than I need Government Controlled Health Care. And why now are there many Democratic Leaders running away from obama care, when just a few months ago they were fine with it? Bottom line Mahuin, I am a Conservative, You are a liberal. There are probably very few if any things we will ever agree on. And like I said, don't give me your Liberal Sources as proof of anything.

  • Mahiun posted at 1:15 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4863

    So lemme ask you this, Joe: suppose somebody were to tell you, "If you like your car, you keep your car. Period." Now, are you seriously going to try to tell me that you'd take that to mean that your car is never ever ever ever ever EVER going to break down, that you're never ever EVER going to need to replace it, that you're never ever EVER going to find that it doesn't meet your needs, or that it can no longer pass safety inspections?

    Suppose you inherit a house and you're told, "You like this place, you can keep it. Period." And then you discover that the place is actually unsafe, and the property is condemned. Are you going to go back and whine, "You said I could keep it, period!" ?

    People routinely make vows of monogamy and marriage "'til death do us part", but the divorce rate in this country hovers around 50%. What should we do with these people, sue them for lying, and breach of contract?! You said forever!" ?

    When you send a text message and you see the little pop-up message about "no charge", you do realize that it means that that particular Web site isn't going to charge you, but you might still get charged by your cell-phone carrier, right? You do realize that, right??! Or do you go back to your cell carrier, point your finger and stomp your foot, and say, "You LIED!"?

    People who are not trying to make political hay and create a "scandal" where none exists realize that, while the wording may have been a bit clumsy, the meaning is clear: "Nothing in this law is going to force you to have to give up your insurance policy. There may be other factors outside the law's control: your doctor may retire or die, your hospital may choose not to accept your insurance, your insurance company may go out of business --- we can't control that." Do you REALLY need so much hand-holding that you need that explained to you?!

    And the information source is clearly stated right up front in my earlier post, Joe.....

  • Joe D posted at 12:33 pm on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    Mahuin, Do the words " If you like your health care plan you can keep it, Period"... ring any bells? That sounds like a "guarantee to me. obama said that, did he not? But I am quite sure you do not see it that way. Over five million Americans have had their health care CANCELED. That's by far more than the number that have signed up for obama care. Because obama and obama care are both a big Joke, the proof is in the pudding. One more thing, "I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky." Or " We are not about to send American boys 9 or 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves.

    Lyndon B.

    Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/l/lyndonbjo400830.html#XJ7FCjv9BqdHFKgp.99 There are more examples of lies told by Democrats, but I think you get the drift. OBTW, you gave no examples of lies told by Republicans, but they are out there. I would like to know where you get you numbers; and please, other than Liberal sources. You are always trying to pull that, but I won't let you.

  • Mahiun posted at 11:50 am on Mon, Nov 18, 2013.

    Mahiun Posts: 4863

    A new study from the nonpartisan Center For Media Affairs has concluded that since the beginning of President Obama’s second term, Republicans have lied three times more often than Democrats.

    The Center For Media Affairs (CFMA) at George Mason University found that PolitiFact rated Republican claims as false three times more often than Democratic claims.

    Not only do Republicans lie more often, but Democrats are more truthful. By a 2 to 1 margin (22%-11%) PolitiFact rated Democratic statements as completely true. The CFMA also found that, “A majority of Democratic statements (54%) were rated as mostly or entirely true, compared to only 18% of Republican statements. Conversely, a majority of Republican statements (52%) were rated as mostly or entirely false, compared to only 24% of Democratic statements. Despite controversies over Obama administration statements regarding Benghazi, the IRS and the Associated Press, Republican during May 2013, compared to 29% of Democratic statements – a 2 to 1 margin.”

    Republicans are claiming that President Obama has a credibility problem with the American people, when in reality the entire Republican Party lacks credibility. A majority of Americans don’t believe what the Republican Party says anymore. The Republican Party has so damaged their reputation that anyone who runs as the Republican presidential nominee inherits a credibility issue.

    --As reported in Politics USA

    And it's hard to believe that anybody would be so naive, so ill-informed, so downright clueless as to think that absolutely NOTHING would ever prevent you from having to switch insurance plans or doctors?! Your doctor decides to retire --- is that Obama's fault? Your insurance company gets bought out, and the new provider decides to consolidate products and eliminate your policy --- is that Obama's fault? Your local hospital decides not to accept your insurance plan or provider (yes, it happens; it happened to me in California, when nobody in my entire country would accept Blue Cross, the only plan my employer provided) --- is that Obama's fault?

    Anybody with two working brain cells to rub together --- and who wasn't attempting to make political hay -- would understand that neither Obama nor anyone else can guarantee that your plan will always be available, under any and all circumstances. But if you lose either your doctor or your insurance plan, it will not be as a result of the ACA; companies (who add and drop insurance plans all the time) were always free to bring their policies into compliance, and the ACA did not "force" them to drop policies. If they chose to do so, it was only because they were running a scam and couldn't get away with it any more.

  • Joe D posted at 2:36 pm on Sun, Nov 17, 2013.

    Joe D Posts: 2512

    "its C’est si bon." MT What's so good about it? When a Government dictates to the people, what kind of health care they must purchase or be in violation of the law, then there is No good in it. obama gave False Information that was known by HIS ADMINISTRATION to be WRONG. So that makes obama a Flat Out Liar. If obama does not KNOW what HIS ADMINISTRATION is doing, then he should not be in the office he is in. He IS supposed to be in charge; is he not? As far as President Bush and Iraq goes, their was a boat load of Democrats that gave him the green light to attack Iraq. They were working with the same information that Bush had. Not only our leaders, but the leaders of several other country's were good with it. One of the very few that did not vote on going to war with Iraq was obama; but he never voted on much of anything while he was a senator. "Which part of the courts (mostly Republican) ruling ACA is legal did you not understand". One Republican Supreme Court Justice, (Roberts) votes in favor of obama care and now you are trying to make a big deal out of it.
    One vote is not "mostly Republican" Mike.

  • Miketeague posted at 1:37 pm on Sun, Nov 17, 2013.

    Miketeague Posts: 2040

    Intrepid on Nov 16 you posted “The key difference is crucial. Bush did not lie. He told what he sincerely thought was the truth” but now you can read President Obama’s mind and emphatically state he did not sincerely think what he said was true?
    Bush lied thousands died, not my saying but most of the world. If and this is a big if Obama lied then the insurance companies will just get richer.
    My first insurance policy had a maternity benefit and that was 1968 I sure didn’t need it but it was standard. It doesn’t cost the insurance companies a dime to include it, they only have to pay if you use it.
    Just where did you find “benefits are limited based upon age” as part of your over the top of any reasonably person theory of a “purge” the only purge I’ve seen are the Republicans trying to purge those that would vote against them.
    Which part of the courts (mostly Republican) ruling ACA is legal did you not understand.
    If you and your cohorts wanted to say the whole thing was grossly mismanaged there wouldn’t be a lot of argument, same if you said that Obama should not have let Insurance CEO’s design it no argument, but to try and make up your own facts and medication preventable theories is just wrong.
    It is in no way C’est la guerre its C’est si bon.

  • Intrepid posted at 7:15 am on Sun, Nov 17, 2013.

    Intrepid Posts: 1057

    There's no question but what some people were going to have to pay a lot more for their mandatory health insurance because they had to buy health insurance for those unable to pay. Obama knew this. He had to know this. But, as a politician he was in the habit of campaigning, of making hollow promises, selling rhetoric and basically lying to gain support for his ACA program. And so he lied. He did not couch his lies he made very specific promises that he knew were lies.

    "Better, cheaper healthcare for everyone." - utterly impossible, unless you simply enslave the healthcare sector and force them to work as slaves. But this was Obama's oft spoken solemn promise.

    "If you like your health care plan you can keep it." But YOUR healthcare plan no longer exists because Obama rewrote the rules of what comprises all healthcare plans. No mystery to Obama - just another half truth, misinformation - an in your face lie.

    "There will be no death panels." But if the health benefits are limited based upon age - then you die younger for lack of care - death panel? Not really - it is more like a death policy. But the end result will be the same. Lies, damned lies.

    In the immediate aftermath of the Cuban revolution, Castro purged that country of all opposition. Any group whose money he needed or any group he felt was a threat was made illegal. Many individuals were executed by firing squad. This is analogous to Obama and the ACA. These solid American citizens are his victims. They are the ones deemed to be too wealthy. They are the ones Obama has decided will pay to support others. They are the American citizens with Obama's IRS gun at their heads. This is Obama's purge. Obama is coming for those he decides are in the 'have' group.

    All that remains to happen is to have our election processes defrauded - say, with illegal aliens - say, with rote voter fraud - or perhaps just having them outright banned. Obama's hoped for changes were not about a free country - his ideals are for socialism. And his methods are deceitful, and they are illegal - but Obama is also in charge of who enforces the laws. C'est la guerre.

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