IB: Cheerleading isn’t fact-finding - Coeur d'Alene Press: Letters To Editor

IB: Cheerleading isn’t fact-finding

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Posted: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 1:00 am

I attended the "Community Chat" on Sept. 26, which became a pep rally staged by IB teachers and students. I listened to a host of IB students speak emotionally about how much IB means to them. There is no doubt that these students are bright, but IB didn't make them that way. In fact, when confronted with the very poor IB exam scores and resulting lack of college credits for IB courses taken, the best "critical thinking" response both IB teachers and students could muster was, "we're not in it for the grades or the college credits."

IB students and teachers resist any effort to objectively measure the academic success of IB. Instead, it's all about how they "feel" about the program. Grades don't matter. College credits don't matter. (Although that's how the program was originally sold to the community.) Poor performance that is below the average performance of IB students worldwide doesn't matter. Instead, they rest on the fact that a few of our elite IB students get into Ivy League schools. However, Coeur d'Alene's best and brightest were getting into the best schools long before IB.

IB cheerleader Ms. Kladar is fully aware of the factual objections to IB. My research with cited sources has been published in The Press over the past couple of years and can be reviewed in the archives at cdapress.com.

Ms. Kladar compares IB to the Boy Scouts and Red Cross. However, neither of those have been tasked by UNESCO with implementing the U.N.'s education for global governance. IB's radical environmentalism, social activism and "everyone can be right" relativism - which they call "critical thinking" - is well-documented. See http://myinclinevillage.com/2011/07/31/what-all-parents--students-should-know-before-enrolling-in-ib.aspx.

The data provided at the school board's Sept. 19 workshop shows AP's performance has been significantly better than IB's: (1) Average IB exam scores for 2010 and 2011 were likely INSUFFICIENT for college credit in 6 of 7 courses; (2) Average AP exam scores were likely to gain college credits in 5 of 9 courses in 2010, and 6 of 9 courses in 2011; (1) Average IB exam scores were BELOW world averages in 6 of 7 courses in 2010 and in 4 of 7 courses in 2011; (2) Average AP exam scores were AT or ABOVE world averages in 7 of 9 courses in 2010 and 2011. There is much to object to with IB, and little to support it, other than anecdotal information and the "feel good," emotional testimonials by IB insiders.

Last, in a to-be-expected effort to demonize, Ms. Kladar misquoted the plain-spoken man at the pep rally. What I and others heard was a blunt (albeit somewhat off-color) condemnation directed to the teachers and administrators (not IB students) who continue to waste precious resources on an elite few students, when the money is needed to make sure ALL of our students are college-ready. That person observed that his own kids did not receive a good education, while money is being thrown away on IB. Shelling out something like $77,000 per IB diploma is not peanuts, based on the objective under-performance of IB.

My objections to IB, including the content and stated goals of the program, are well-known and shared by many in our community. But cost and performance are equally valid considerations. Let's get all the information that the school district has promised, and then have an intelligent, reasoned discussion regarding costs, goals and performance. THAT's what strategic planning is all about.


Hayden Lake

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Welcome to the discussion.


  • Truth About IB posted at 7:08 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Truth About IB Posts: 74

    When you read the comments by IB lovers like Shirley, it makes me think of IB as some sort of Xanax substitute that only works on the weak-minded among us. ;-)

  • Almost an IB Parent posted at 12:12 pm on Mon, Oct 10, 2011.

    Almost an IB Parent Posts: 46

    I'm opposed to ANY ideology being pushed on our children. If we want to compete with the rest of the world maybe we should focus on math and science not this IB - BS.

    Below are two links to IB's own website. THESE ARE THE ib FACTS:

    the most important essential elements are to "develop attitudes," and get students to "take action." As a teacher I can tell you, PYP has little if any educational value. Take a look,

    And at the high school level students get to,
    "...grapple with questions like
    * When can it be right to disobey the law?
    * Can suicide bombers be right?"

    IB may make you feel good but it is offensive to many. The goal of IB has little to do with education.

  • Shirley Jones posted at 5:01 pm on Sun, Oct 9, 2011.

    Shirley Jones Posts: 191

    Just what UN IB ideology do you protest? A global/international world view? Global citizens? The IB learner profile? The IB attitudes? An inquiry based curricula? Exactly what is the problem? Website addresses aren’t answers. I simply don’t have a problem with the United Nations, and guess what, the same is true for many more Americans... Your truth is not my truth, or for so many others for that matter... learn to live with it!

  • Almost an IB Parent posted at 3:05 pm on Sun, Oct 9, 2011.

    Almost an IB Parent Posts: 46

    Truth About IB,
    Why are you confusing Shirley with facts? IB makes her feel good. As long a Shirley feels good EVERYONE else should be quiet!
    This sums up the problem with IB. Maybe we won't hear from Shirley anymore.

  • Truth About IB posted at 7:45 am on Sun, Oct 9, 2011.

    Truth About IB Posts: 74

    Almost an IB parent: "Just the other day you said IB had no connection to UN - at least you are starting to become educated.”

    Shirley Jones: " I have never said this!"

    Maybe Shirley has never "said" these words out loud. That's very possible. I do hate to call someone a liar. However, just a few posts below, Shirley Jones did WRITE this: "Yep, it is connected to the United Nations...I have no problem with that, and the same is true with so many."

    So which is it Shirley? Something you like to call a "conspiracy" and "ridiculous" when it suits you? Or something you "have no problem with"? You see, I have a problem with conspiracies. By loosely throwing around the charge "conspiracy", you are accusing Mr. Koler and others like myself of an actual crime.


    If anyone is to be accused of "conspiracy" in the IB debate, it should be IBO and any of those administrators and Trustees who vow to continue the program without proper vetting and cost analysis. All we are asking for is for American public schools to support public education and the children by not using our taxdollars towards a program that does not operate under American Law.

  • Almost an IB Parent posted at 11:44 pm on Sat, Oct 8, 2011.

    Almost an IB Parent Posts: 46

    You don't object to a UN ideology being forced on our children, I understand that. BUT... you must acknowledge many people feel it is not the district's place to force any ideology on the students. And some people who specifically object to the UN ideology? Don't they matter? If it was Rush Limbaugh's ideology being pushed on students you would object, and I would agree with you.

    PUBLIC SCHOOLS SHOULD STICK TO EDUCATING CHILDREN and keep ANY ideology out of the class room.

  • Shirley Jones posted at 6:26 pm on Sat, Oct 8, 2011.

    Shirley Jones Posts: 191

    @almost an IB Parent, "Just the other day you said IB had no connection to UN - at least you are starting to become educated.” I have never said this! I have only dismissed the conspiracy theories that Hamilton, Seymour, and their lawyer leader Ducan Kohler shout. I do not believe the UN is trying to take away our childrens’ sovereignty, as they like to proclaim. Simply ridiculous and superstitious. Fear, fear, fear, and so Kohler says, “Follow me!"

  • Truth About IB posted at 6:22 am on Sat, Oct 8, 2011.

    Truth About IB Posts: 74

    "Yep, it is connected to the United Nations...I have no problem with that, and the same is true with so many. That doesn’t make me a Marxist, unpatriotic, or anti-American....but, you go ahead and tout your generic slurs if it makes you feel better." ~Shirley you must be joking

    No slurs. Just the Truth.

  • Shirley Jones posted at 2:26 pm on Fri, Oct 7, 2011.

    Shirley Jones Posts: 191

    @Truth About IB, lets be fair, don’t you mean “it is a big problem for SOME hard working, taxpaying U.S. citizens.”

    I am a hard working, taxpaying, proud American citizen. So is my husband, my children, my parents, my friends, (a politic mix of Republicans and Democrats) and they don’t see IB the political problem you boast of...In fact, we see the IB philosophy a must for our grandkids, so they can compete in a global society (that your seem to deny exists). Yep, it is connected to the United Nations...I have no problem with that, and the same is true with so many. That doesn’t make me a Marxist, unpatriotic, or anti-American....but, you go ahead and tout your generic slurs if it makes you feel better.

  • Truth About IB posted at 5:37 am on Fri, Oct 7, 2011.

    Truth About IB Posts: 74

    "1. The political content is not a problem for the modern citizen." ~Shirley Jones

    You mean, it's not a problem for the modern global Marxist citizen, eh? I'm afraid it IS a BIG problem for hard working, taxpaying U.S. citizens. Try again, Shirley.

  • inclined posted at 8:07 pm on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    inclined Posts: 681

    “areyoukiddingme”. O, choice is it? Like what the EPA gives the state of ID? Like what the LCDC gives us with McEuen? Like non-partisan, “unbeliever” union members get in the Teachers Union as to where their dues get spent? Like the URA taxing and power of eminent domain kind of choice? Like the shenanigans we got with Wanda’s backroom appointment-choice? Like the choice we got to voice questions to the Trustees at the Community Chat. Like the choice the unborn get? Like the choice black women get against the cataclysmic hard-sell of the abortion industry? Like the choice kids get with parents, a good many of which(and you fill in the percentages, but from what I hear from teachers in high schools here, and grade scores)---it is no wonder at the appeal of a segregated, “membership” kind of curriculum, when so many students do not get it, and so few teachers are above the norm to excite and stimulate and open up new worlds of inquiry and wonder. Education in our communities, in our state, and nation is not in a vacuum. It is interrelated, and sadly in great measure, to politics. And it is more and more difficult for the Left to disparage that notion, and slam,dunk, their agenda ahead.

    It is true, that the church, across the board has lost all but about 4% of teenagers. There is certainly enough room for scrutiny and examination of what works and what does not. It is not just scrutiny of the schools. The same people who do not see nor care at what is happening in the church, are parents that lag in what must be looked at and judged in the schools. These are the same parents who are embarrassingly uninformed to illiterate when it comes to what is happening in our nation’s courts and congresses and laws. There have been so many regulations passed in just the past two years, it will take a different government, 20 years to undo, if they are different. Right now, many say we are rushing, headlong, toward the falls. We could see violence within a short few years, unlike most can conceive and believe when it happens. It will take oars, lots of oars to offset the current.

    Notice "Shiriley Johnes" arrogant remark: "The political content is not a problem for the modern citizen". That is exactly what the elite say in North Korea. Romanian president Nicolae Ceausescu said it. The elite in this country are saying it, and proof it has trickled down to "Shirley".

    And I too misspelled Mr. Koler's name. I get it now.

  • Shirley Jones posted at 6:15 pm on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    Shirley Jones Posts: 191

    @just me, I’ll bite.

    1. The political content is not a problem for the modern citizen.
    2. Sorry to here AP was eliminated, it isn’t any longer and never should have been, in my opinion.
    3. The IB cost is .001% of the district’s funding, it is only an issue for those opposed to it content.
    4. In my opinion, busing should be available and free for students who choose the programs outside their boundaries. However, Republicans have been begging for vouchers for over a decade and our district matched them with schools of choice! Hooray. Vouchers give school choice but, like our district, don’t give free busing.
    5. I like the idea of informing incoming Advanced freshmen their program choices in detail. I am not convinced this isn’t happening.
    6. Disappointed that the IB is so difficult that our kids can’t pass the assessments. That should concern everyone!

  • Almost an IB Parent posted at 2:10 pm on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    Almost an IB Parent Posts: 46

    If you are correct they only reason left to support IB is because of the ideology. In our area when all aspects of IB were exposed the only ones who still supported it were the ultra left who liked IB for the ideology.

  • Jeffrey Wherley posted at 11:14 am on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    Jeffrey Wherley Posts: 3969

    Almost an IB Parent,

    "If you read the article and study the links Duncan provides you will realize you are wrong,"
    Sorry, but you are wrong. They would never realize they are wrong. But it is nice of you to try.

  • Nicotinegun posted at 10:08 am on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    Nicotinegun Posts: 1367

    Here is another article from IBO's website,
    On page 6 of 8 in referring to the TOK class it says (emphasis added),

    "In their essays and oral presentations they (the students) grapple with questions like

    What makes evidence good enough to justify belief?
    What justifies the name of art?
    Do we act ethically out of social duty, religious belief, universal principle or self interest?
    When can it be right to disobey the law?
    Can suicide bombers be right?"

    Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the 2009 Christmas day underwear bomber was an IB student.

    5) When attempting to "sell" IB most districts distort the benefits of the programme but; IBO does NOT claim IB will improve student performance. The research (including one dissertation) shows IB will NOT improve student performance.

    6) IB is extremely expensive,

    7) The reasons most schools state for dropping IB are: 1) Cost, 2) Lack of student improvement with IB, 3) Less flexible than AP, 4) Lack of participation in IB classes, 5) Lack of college credit for IB.

    8) Here is how one Christian school compares IB to a Christian education,

    People object to IB on religious grounds.

    9) IBO is a non-governmental organization (NGO) of United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) the United Nations (UN).

    IBO and UNESCO work out of the same building in Switzerland (toward the bottom of the page):

    Here is an eight minute video of a Powerpoint presentation by Duncan Koler Esq., titled, IB Connecting the Dots (International Baccalaureate and UNESCO educational objectives)

  • Nicotinegun posted at 9:50 am on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    Nicotinegun Posts: 1367

    The IB program is another opportunity to dumb down the kids and make more willing to join the collective. Don't think, Kids, use your emotions like the apes do. Don't concern yourself with history, Kids, just believe what the Global Government tells you and go with it. Don't worry if you don't know how to balance a check book because you never learned math, the Government will be there to catch you if you fall.

    It's exactly why we are in the mess we are in now. 98% percent of the people running the nation couldn't pass a citizenship test. Our kids are intentionally being dumbed down the IB program will dumb them down even more.

  • Almost an IB Parent posted at 9:29 am on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    Almost an IB Parent Posts: 46

    One thing to keep in mind when an IB and AP class is combined per the IBO regulations the IB material must take priority, in other words it is an IB class and at the end students can take the AP exam also. Typically students do poorly on both exams when this happens. If you jsut read the first point of this article you realize why sticking to AP makes the most sense for students and their families,

  • Almost an IB Parent posted at 9:19 am on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    Almost an IB Parent Posts: 46

    Areyoukiddingme, and Shirley,
    If you read the article and study the links Duncan provides you will realize you are wrong,
    What I've discovered is the IB supporters don't want to be confused with facts. IB makes them "feel good," and that is all they need.

    In EVERY COMMUNITY where people question IB the community becomes divided, and those opposing IB become the enemy of the district and the IB supporters. Pretty ironic for a programme who's mission statement says. "those with their differences can also be right."

    As a former teacher I can tell you, any educational program that can't be openly and honestly discussed is not worth spending any money on.

  • justme posted at 7:47 am on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    justme Posts: 136

    Shirley, thank you for your reply. However, I had a series of related questions in my statement. I will add a few. 1. Was the political content of IB examined before instituted? 2. Why was a successful AP Program eliminated by the Board to be totally replaced by IB? 3. Was there a cost comparison of the two programs before IB replaced AP? 4. If choice is really the reason for having both AP and IB, should free busing between the schools or directly to the school of choice be provided so a student is not trapped in a school that is not their choice. Choice is no choice when it is not available to you. 5. Are junior high student’s parents given a written comparison of the two programs, including costs, percentage of college credits accepted, and political and social differences, before the students "choose" a program? I appreciate your communication.

    It is my understanding that AP was only returned to CdA High School after pressure from parents and students.

  • Truth About IB posted at 5:46 am on Thu, Oct 6, 2011.

    Truth About IB Posts: 74


    Brilliantly and eloquently stated. Spot on!

    The implementation of IB divides communities, not those who oppose its takeover of our public schools.The battle to rid our schools of this inferior, hypocritical "programme" which claims to enrich students with its "Learner Profile" is happening all over the country. Take a look at those "values" and see how many of them IB supporters actually model. IB is a scam and a joke. A very EXPENSIVE scam.

    P.S. - I wonder why IB supporters are incapable of spelling Mr. Koler's name correctly? It's really not that difficult, geez.

  • Shirley Jones posted at 7:04 pm on Wed, Oct 5, 2011.

    Shirley Jones Posts: 191

    No problem "just me", AP is currently alive and well at Coeur d’Alene High School. And you have none other than Eddie Brooks to thank who was passionate about providing parents with a choice between IB and AP. Mr. Kohler is not so gracious.

  • Areyoukiddingme posted at 6:00 pm on Wed, Oct 5, 2011.

    Areyoukiddingme Posts: 11

    How many more years do parents have to put up with this Kholer drivel? Honestly, he now has his foot in the door with his cronies in the school board, he spends our tax dollars in frivolous lawsuits via Hamilton and Seymour (so much for fiscal responsibility), and wants to take away the choices our school district has provided for parents and their children. His kids don’t even attend our schools!!! So, they don’t even attend AP or IB classes? Obviously, this isn’t about money for Mr. Kholer, this is about his agenda of beliefs, politics and religion. IB is an affront to his paradigm of the world and he is willing to spend his time and money to bury it in God’s name. Facts? He publishes website addresses and calls them credible? I can publish websites that prove dragons and sky fairies exist too. Oh yes, there was a big foot sighting yesterday in the Cabinet Mountains, just check google and your wishful “fact" comes true. I read it on the web, it must be true.

  • justme posted at 5:39 pm on Wed, Oct 5, 2011.

    justme Posts: 136

    Shirley, are you aware that he AP Program was totally eliminated in both high schools when the IB Program was started? Where was the priorty of "choice" when this happened. Where was the "critical" thinking in eliminating a successful program. Where was the examination of political and social agendas when AP was eliminated? I really would like a response so I understand your thinking.

  • Shirley Jones posted at 5:10 pm on Wed, Oct 5, 2011.

    Shirley Jones Posts: 191

    Americans who gather together to present their facts, their information in favor of the IB Program are "cheerleaders". Americans who gather to protest the IB Program whether it be on grounds of religion, politics, and now money are so called “patriots". Mrs. Kladar wants the option of an IB Program to challenge her children in the IB perimeters. Other parents want the AP Program to challenge their students. Ducan, your kids don’t even attend our schools! Can you divide our community any more Mr. Kholer? At least our district had the insight to offer choices to all of our parents. It seems you only want to diminish the choices, if not take them away altogether. Your cronies have the option to not send their children to the IB Program, and obviously they won’t. That, however, is not good enough, you and your klan have to take that option away altogether. How Democratic, and how American of you?

  • inclined posted at 2:24 pm on Wed, Oct 5, 2011.

    inclined Posts: 681

    It seems Mr. Kohler has had a decent, think out of the box, think creatively, think smart education to do the work he does. May it not go unnoticed, students, that when such a person is the product of a good education, and becomes successful, he is a schmuck if he is not a progressive, if he were not Left, if he were not pro union, if he speaks(howbeit logically, carefully, insightfully, factually), and then demonstrates in his demeanor, a sincere and proper de'plorer ---he is marginalized by an elected class of government employees, who are “servants” of the people. Students should open their minds, in the pursuit of general intelligent critical thinking to, what their teachers, fellow students take in and support-- a foundation building “education” curriculum that produces certain other demonstrated results. They have waited for you. They have been at this for many long years.

    Typical of higher education’s best, is the shenanigans of what 'The State Media" has demonstrated in holding back 93 days, a full three months, before reporting about “Fast and Furious”. Students, you should know about this. The selling of arms and ammunition to the Mexican drug cartels, and the resulting death of at least one border patrol agent. This is obstruction, from L. obstructionem (nom. obstructio) "a building up," from obstructus, pp. of obstruere "block up, build up, hinder," from ob "against" + struere "to pile, build". So, what does this actual on and on and on bs reveal?

    You see, there is a thread, there is something pathological about the way government works, in Washington, and in CdA. Where are the facts and compliance with Cost Analysis on IB? You see, students, there is an agenda alright. "O God, that's rich", I hear them say. There is at the very core of “education”, an agenda that should not be confused with higher learning, and the way bright, gifted, searchers of truth, should think and act. And, the classic act of the obfuscationist: Rail! Slander the opponent, is not even classical. In studies, however, they show it happens among Chimpanzees.

    When it works for them, these elite School Board/Teacher-IB promoting geniuses are isolationist(when the thrust of their philosophy is international adaptation, universal meeting ground), knowing not that there is an affiliation with the money laundering thugs of even the teachers union, one of the biggest unions in the country, who are simply a money channel to Left politics in this nation,
    but who implore acceptance of a superior academic model, that, in the end, is a lie. Socialism, Fascist governments don’t give a rat’s a__ for your learning. They shoot scholars and musicians and artist and teachers of higher learning. They have recently done this by the millions in Cambodia. They have done it in Viet Nam. They are doing it in Africa. They did it in Italy. They did it in Spain. They did it in Russia, in China. Students: More than pom poms.

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